Groningen or Forest Sherman choice

[Deksi_4]

Hi captains, 

 

I would like your help for picking up a dd between Forrest Sherman and Groningen. 

I know the characteristics of both ships, but regarding their resource price, what do you think, is it better to go with Forrest Sherman when coupon refresh for 186000 coal, or should I pick Groningen for 1000000 free Xp. I have both type of resources but which of this two is easier to play in your opinion. Which of them is stronger at their respective tier and having in mind this long range meta, plus subs and CVs? Thanks in advance.

[Ubertron_X]

I don't have F. Sherman yet and do despise the playstyle of Groningen/Friesland, so I will not comment on their respective gameplay and in-tier strength.

 

However I do advise to think twice before spending ressources on a T9 premium in the age of the supership.

[Panocek]

1 hour ago, Deksi_4 said:

Hi captains, 

 

I would like your help for picking up a dd between Forrest Sherman and Groningen. 

I know the characteristics of both ships, but regarding their resource price, what do you think, is it better to go with Forrest Sherman when coupon refresh for 186000 coal, or should I pick Groningen for 1000000 free Xp. I have both type of resources but which of this two is easier to play in your opinion. Which of them is stronger at their respective tier and having in mind this long range meta, plus subs and CVs? Thanks in advance.

In my opinion neither of them is "easier" to play. Both have hard time carrying out destroyer duties with their subpar concealment, while both are good damage farmers and supporting gunships when someone else does the spotting and takes the beating.

 

Sherman have better ballistics, making range extension from captain skill an interesting option, but one smoke less makes Superintendent almost mandatory. Which translates to rather point hungry captain you can't make use of in any other DD... which fits perfectly Halsey trained on DM/Montana/Midway. SAP ammo also makes it very consistent against most ships, especially cruisers, something Groningen is considerably lacking against.

 

Groningen/Friesland have absurd aerial detection and solid, by DD standards at least, anti air which can make CV reconsider targets. Not surprising, as she was made as "solution" to "problem" of carriers. The same low aerial detection makes her a nasty surprise against submarines sitting on periscope depth. Sadly, her ASW rockets are very mediocre when it comes to killing subs - low damage, low projectile count, while forward launching needs getting used to. Sherman's classic depth charges are much more lethal and drops more of them per single application of G key. Both ships have hydro, so they aren't completely blind against submarines as well.

 

4 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

However I do advise to think twice before spending ressources on a T9 premium in the age of the supership.

Issue is, Groningen is "least bad" option among Free Exp ships. And on what else you'd spend piling up Free Exp, skipping ships for RB? Given there aren't many good options in RB either, that wouldn't be the case I think.

[Ubertron_X]

15 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Issue is, Groningen is "least bad" option among Free Exp ships. And on what else you'd spend piling up Free Exp, skipping ships for RB? Given there aren't many good options in RB either, that wouldn't be the case I think.

The last 2.5+ million Free XP I spend was to advance all my (mostly T6) carriers to T10 in front of the snowflake event and I am currently considering to do likewise with submarines before x-mas. However you are correct that Free XP ship selection is becoming ever more less exciting, which after hoarding Free XP for a while finally was a major factor for going for tech tree advancements.

[________________Morrison]

100/100 dutch bias

1 hour ago, Deksi_4 said:

Hi captains, 

 

I would like your help for picking up a dd between Forrest Sherman and Groningen. 

I know the characteristics of both ships, but regarding their resource price, what do you think, is it better to go with Forrest Sherman when coupon refresh for 186000 coal, or should I pick Groningen for 1000000 free Xp. I have both type of resources but which of this two is easier to play in your opinion. Which of them is stronger at their respective tier and having in mind this long range meta, plus subs and CVs? Thanks in advance.

I only have Friesland. THE OG.

 

PITA to use. Yes damage farm yes yes. You know what also gets farmed? your sanity with 14.8km range.

 

Oh radar. Oh there goes 6k OH THERES GOES 12K oh IM DEAD.

 

Unless theres a dd or a cv doing the spottting. You might as well pack your bags and leave.

I always complain about the dd smoking when aligning a shot so now you don't see the enemy.

When playing either of these you're that dd.

 

Yes you can get like 15.6or something but the shells take to long to make that effective. I only play Friesland when I feel sad that Ragnars dpm got lowered because reasons. lol buy a delarna for 50mil.

 

I don't have smalland. I play hayate like a gunboat. Existence is pain.

 

I say Sherman.

[endlessBoogie]

get both and 2 smoke upgrades for coal. bully dds , celebrate some bbq and look good while doing it

[Miscommunication_dept]

Sherman is far better at range due to those ballistics. As coal is a very easy resource to get, I think Forrest Sherman is great value. The way it’s SAP melts cruisers is a bit mad. 

Groningen is also good and comes with one extra smoke and much better AA. Two nice ships each one is IMO the best ship for their resource cost.

[ItsEyeJasper]

I have both,  and dont claim to be any good in DDs.

I really struggled with the sluggishness of the Sherman. If you can Adapt to that she is the better DD  by far. However i  still just seem to have more fun in the other. 

 

[KillStealBoss]

But those 2 ships are offered by different resources. Sherman is for coal and Groningen is for free exp. If you would ask about 2 coal ships that would be a better question. For me? Just buy both of them if you have the coal and free exp. Although both have similar playstyle they have some differences, Sherman has SAP and some torpedos, while Groningen has better AA and it's a tier lower. 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

4 hours ago, Deksi_4 said:

Hi captains, 

 

I would like your help for picking up a dd between Forrest Sherman and Groningen. 

I know the characteristics of both ships, but regarding their resource price, what do you think, is it better to go with Forrest Sherman when coupon refresh for 186000 coal, or should I pick Groningen for 1000000 free Xp. I have both type of resources but which of this two is easier to play in your opinion. Which of them is stronger at their respective tier and having in mind this long range meta, plus subs and CVs? Thanks in advance.

 

Each of them is balanced in its own way.

 

Groningen:

+ way better AA

+ T9, less superships

+ T9, less T10/T12 CVs

+ T9, better economy 

 

- T9, lots of other good premium DDs

- low pen = shatters on most BBs

- you might not have a dutch 21-pointer ready yet

- has "one torpedo" only

- BBs will rush your smoke, not fearing torps

 

Sherman:

+ works with any gunboat-built DD commander you probably have lying around already, preferably the one whose infamous name shall no longer be mentioned.

+ SAP murders other DDs at close range

+ SAP does direct damage to 32mm BB armor and cruisers easily

+ at least a bit of torpedo power, even if mostly useless

+ torps may keep BBs from rushing your smoke

 

- T10, more superships

- T10, doesn't hurt T10/T12 CVs enough, to make them think twice about spotting you.

- T10, lots of other good gunboats in T10/T11

 

All in all I feel both are still different. The Sherman is way better at long range spamming bigger ships. it is also better at killing DDs. But then it gets matched against other murderous DDs like Smaland, Ragnar, Kleber, Marceau, Harugumo. It doesn't have any particular skill. The temptation is high to fall in love with damage stacking while spamming irrelevant targets, while your enemy DD takes the caps and wins the battle.

 

Groningen is a bit weaker for its tier. However the shatters on BBs make you focus more on ambushing DDs, which wins battles. For a good player it may not matter, as they can focus on what is important. It's still a risk. The great AA makes the Groningen special. You bring some extra utility to the table. As a result, the CV will soon give you a wide berth and you will get plane-spotted less. That means that you will be less of a target of opportunity and go into DD brawls with a healthier ship.

 

It's not trivial to boil it down to hard facts. I just feel that in the Groningen it is easier to find a favorable DD fight and have an impact. T10, especially since superships and shotgun-subs entered the game, has become very unpredictable, way more situational. I feel more confident in Groningen, since at least CVs are mostly out of the equation.

 

On top of it T9 is a sweet spot. There may be clans that mostly do T10 for competitive reasons. My clans sees a lot of division play and a lot of regrinds. The longest episode of regrinds is eliting the T9 ships, so we see a lot of T9-divisions. The cost of superships has made credit farming at T8/T9 more important than ever. So I will play my Friesland/Groningen way more often than the Sherman.

 

So I would say definitely get the Groningen. Both ships don't compete. Groningen is a no-brainer, even if for no better reason than FXP having become such a useless ressource.

Sherman is more a case of what other steel ships you already have. It's certainly nice to have, but will never be a Clan Battle pick and mostly rely on playing in division with somebody willing to spot for you.

 

[Falcor99]

Sherman is sluggish.

 

I would go for Groningen any day of the week. It will also earn you alot of free XP, credits etc.

[Deksi_4]

Thanks everyone for your advices! 

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

6 hours ago, Deksi_4 said:

Hi captains, 

 

I would like your help for picking up a dd between Forrest Sherman and Groningen. 

I know the characteristics of both ships, but regarding their resource price, what do you think, is it better to go with Forrest Sherman when coupon refresh for 186000 coal, or should I pick Groningen for 1000000 free Xp. I have both type of resources but which of this two is easier to play in your opinion. Which of them is stronger at their respective tier and having in mind this long range meta, plus subs and CVs? Thanks in advance.

Have Sherman and its a Beast, just don't play her as a DD. She is more like a Smolensk that on occasion can push in and take a cap. But just farm from range, farm from smoke, farm behind islands, shoot torps on cooldown and win a lot! Sherman SAP is DEVESTATING to all classes and you kill spotted DDs in a heartbeat. 5 km hydro isn't bad either....

And putting Halsey on her and getting Confederate, which you likely will, your guns turn into Miniguns.

 

Haven't played Groningen but its my next 1 M FXP buy so soon. Seems decent when looking at YT videos but think you need some skill to make her work. T9 Premiums is always good for credit/XP farm.

 

In my book Sherman is the clear choice. Its very similar ships, 2 DDs with next to none torps, decent AA, good DPM and both have bad conceal and hydro. Sherman just does everything better.

 

Also you must go range build on Sherman which makes you a little more sluggish 15-16 km farming Kleber but with better/fasted DPM.

 

This is pretty much how I play her, gunboating a lot in open, when the heat gets to great you pop smoke and continue to farm.

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I have Sherman but only played her in 3 battles. Didn't like her. I feel she is way too much cruiser for her class while taking a DD slot.

I have Friesland, and although initially she was fun, I wouldn't pick her in the current state of the game. T9 is kinda screwed, her AA doesn't mean much anymore, no torps = getting bumrushed by anything with armor and an HP pool. Superships vs. this thing? WG must be joking.

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Schijnheilig said:

PITA to use. Yes damage farm yes yes. You know what also gets farmed? your sanity with 14.8km range.

 

Oh radar. Oh there goes 6k OH THERES GOES 12K oh IM DEAD.

 

Unless theres a dd or a cv doing the spottting. You might as well pack your bags and leave.

I always complain about the dd smoking when aligning a shot so now you don't see the enemy.

When playing either of these you're that dd.

Doesn't seem like much difference with Sherman to me. 

I have it. It is sort of like a mini-Smolensk, with similar playstyle. 
Oh radar oh crap oh boom
Oh smoke gets torped from 5 sides and shot at, oh crap oh boom
Oh love waifu island oh crap CV oh crap oh boom.... 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

Sherman aka Forrest Dump. It's not even remotely close.

 

Guns you can easily hit stuff with. 2/3 of your firepower running away. Burn everyone in range, melt anything with SAP. Agile enough to open water at long ranges.

I even play it without concealment mod. But one has to realize it's a cruiser that takes up a DD slot, albeit one that can simply plant it's butt in a cap.

 

One of the most important things - don't get spotted when smoking up to make blind fire on you less accurate. Which is a real danger, because of the amount of guns and fire rate, it's quote easy to do so. And you don't need to stay broadside in the smoke all the tim

 

Also, tier 9 is the new tier 8 with supershits going on.

 

 

[Panocek]

10 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Also, tier 9 is the new tier 8 with supershits going on.

You could say tier 8 is getting some breathing room as well. And if nothing else, T8 can play PvE

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

You could say tier 8 is getting some breathing room as well. And if nothing else, T8 can play PvE

But, the day your Forrest Dump meets 3 Hanovers on the reds, is a great day. 

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

But, the day your Forrest Dump meets 3 Hanovers on the reds, is a great day. 

Not so much when said trio decides to bumrush, while teammates 404 not found to do the spotting

[lup3s]

9 minutes ago, Panocek said:

You could say tier 8 is getting some breathing room as well. And if nothing else, T8 can play PvE

 

TX ships don't have that dumb F-you button that most Supershits get

 

OT:

I have both Friesland and Groningen and I played / liked them a lot. 

I also have the F. Sherman but never bothered to play it in Randoms, only in Coop.

 

Friesland/Groningen is (/was) great at cap contesting + it is a strong division DD (good smoke & hydro & AA). Can't tell how it fares nowadays since I don't play them anymore.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Not so much when said trio decides to bumrush, while teammates 404 not found to do the spotting

Well yeah but Forrest Run is also an option, and you can then still farm them like a MoFo.
Which is quite usual actually as 'teammates 404 not found' is sort of proverbial. 
The solution is to team up with a T10 CV (and also then not get a SuperCV). 

[Latouche_Treville]

Im hoarding coal for Forrest sherman, i read your opinions with great attention.
At first sight, it needs a specific 21pts captain (I will play her in co op only. Anyway, i don't play random ranked etc...).

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

25 minutes ago, Latouche_Treville said:

At first sight, it needs a specific 21pts captain (I will play her in co op only. Anyway, i don't play random ranked etc...).

Sorry, but for coop, you need nothing of that kind. You don't even need to spend on a ship.

And a firestarter/camper like both ships in question don't fare too well, because matches are over so fast. Get a Marceau instead, or even better, a Yolo Emilio, fall face first on the W key and torp a hapless bot.

Torpedo reload times are on the longer side... damn, who knew coop could be this complicated. Anyone got an even better option?

[Vasya_Nyasha]

7 hours ago, Deksi_4 said:

Hi captains, 

 

I would like your help for picking up a dd between Forrest Sherman and Groningen. 

I know the characteristics of both ships, but regarding their resource price, what do you think, is it better to go with Forrest Sherman when coupon refresh for 186000 coal, or should I pick Groningen for 1000000 free Xp. I have both type of resources but which of this two is easier to play in your opinion. Which of them is stronger at their respective tier and having in mind this long range meta, plus subs and CVs? Thanks in advance.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

13 minutes ago, Vasya_Nyasha said:

Because Groningen/Friesland is just so crap in comparison, it isn't even funny. But it's for coop, so normal standards don't apply.