AEGIS is almost unplayable since it was reworked

[Captain_82]

On 11/8/2022 at 10:13 PM, Captain_82 said:

I`d rather play Narai ten times than having to play Raptor Rescue once.

 

Ok I take back what I said.

 

Reason:

 

 

[Seraphice]

I think it's worth pointing out here that since the rework to the operations system, there are more people playing operations, so it is not only the "operation mains" that you're meeting in your games as you were previously.

 

So yes this can have an impact on your ability to successfully complete the mission as there will be more people who arent completely familiar with the operation itself.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Seraphice said:

I think it's worth pointing out here that since the rework to the operations system, there are more people playing operations, so it is not only the "operation mains" that you're meeting in your games as you were previously.

 

So yes this can have an impact on your ability to successfully complete the mission as there will be more people who arent completely familiar with the operation itself.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

It is also worth pointing out that the situation could be improved if players knew in advance which operation they are going to play.

Random operations make the gameplay unnecessarily complicated.

[NewHorizons_1]

1 hour ago, Seraphice said:

I think it's worth pointing out here that since the rework to the operations system, there are more people playing operations, so it is not only the "operation mains" that you're meeting in your games as you were previously.

 

So yes this can have an impact on your ability to successfully complete the mission as there will be more people who arent completely familiar with the operation itself.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

In addition to @ColonelPete's above comment on random ops, it would be nice if the match maker could, at least try, to form same tier teams.

That would be fairer on newer players who may still only have T6 ships, or be using ops to do the T6 grind.

[Seraphice]

3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

It is also worth pointing out that the situation could be improved if players knew in advance which operation they are going to play.

Random operations make the gameplay unnecessarily complicated.

I am afraid this will not change, or at least not for a while.
 

3 hours ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

In addition to @ColonelPete's above comment on random ops, it would be nice if the match maker could, at least try, to form same tier teams.

That would be fairer on newer players who may still only have T6 ships, or be using ops to do the T6 grind.

Will bring this up.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Yamashiro42]

47 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

Will bring this up.

At least there should be 2 queues:  one for tier 6+7 and the other for tier 7+8. This would make waiting times a bit shorter for tier 7 ships, as they could be put into either match, but tier 6 players will get a game where they have chance to prove themselves, and not only watch tier 8 ships to farm everything down before they even get enemy bots into their firing range 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

7 hours ago, Seraphice said:

I think it's worth pointing out here that since the rework to the operations system, there are more people playing operations, so it is not only the "operation mains" that you're meeting in your games as you were previously.

 

So yes this can have an impact on your ability to successfully complete the mission as there will be more people who arent completely familiar with the operation itself.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

 

I know about players. I understand this.

I just want to point out that AEGIS and NARAI have a high % of loss in random operations.

 

I played ops exclusively since the "rework" and want to tell you that AEGIS and NARAI are too hard as they are for random teams compared to other operations. Bot waves that consider tiers would be a solution, but also the better solution would be to have a little peace of code before each wave spawns (on any operation). It should "check" current situation of the team and spawn bot waves accordingly.

[NewHorizons_1]

9 minutes ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

I played ops exclusively since the "rework" and want to tell you that AEGIS and NARAI are too hard as they are for random teams compared to other operations.

I don't think Narai is any harder in itself, it just that players have got a lot worse.

For example all BBs going after secondary objectives instead of the PRIMARY objective.

Maybe such players should get an XP / credit penalty if the operation is a failure.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

3 hours ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

I don't think Narai is any harder in itself, it just that players have got a lot worse.

For example all BBs going after secondary objectives instead of the PRIMARY objective.

Maybe such players should get an XP / credit penalty if the operation is a failure.

 

You are right about Narai. If players do not divide task and push the harbor together the game has great chance of failure.

 

But the pace is out of place, pressured.

Bots are higher tier. They move faster. Meaning the spawn paces are pumped up in the mentioned ops.

Also HP is greater, aa is better,  they have radars, secs has better range, etc.

Yes player tier 8 ships do compensate, but still the pace is dramatically increased. In Aegis second wave is a minute sooner as before. And then third wave same. It creates a bot rushes that are like this.

 

 

Having an OP that grantees high failure is frustrating for players.

A smarter bot spawn system would provide a challenge for the remaining team and still allowed them to win for lesser rewards.

 

Every ops only need minor changes (beside smarter spawn groups):

1. Ultimate frontier: Remove game failure if enemy remains in route of the AI transport planes. Make it a secondary task and fail it properly.

2. Raptor. Make AI map pings of spawn points like in Newport Defense.

3. Hermes: Remove the last DD wave and replace it with a BB.

4.  Narai: Ping the map for transports and CV saying: PING CV and transports on map for team and SAY BATTLESHIPS STAY MID. 

5. KW/Cherry: Ping exit on map. Add additional msg to the players on 5 mins and 3 mins TO GO TO EXIT or to shoot the airfields.

 

If new players are now playing the ops so unexperienced, game should consider it and make it  easier for them ay?

 

 

 

[NewHorizons_1]

39 minutes ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

Bots are higher tier. They move faster. Meaning the spawn paces are pumped up in the mentioned ops.

Also HP is greater, aa is better,  they have radars, secs has better range, etc.

Concealment ranges will be different too, which may affect the timing of events, eg the friendly bot DD dropping smoke in Aegis might be triggered when it get detected.

So when that DD gets it tier upscaled, it detection range increases, it gets detected sooner thus dropping the smoke too early.

41 minutes ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

Make AI map pings of spawn points like in Newport Defense.

A good idea in theory, but sadly I suspect that some players are beyond help.

 

[lup3s]

14 hours ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

If new players are now playing the ops so unexperienced, game should consider it and make it  easier for them ay?

 

Or they can play cautiously, take note of the primary and secondary objectives, and see how the Op plays out - and learn from it for a future Op.

[Seraphice]

1 hour ago, lup3s said:

 

Or they can play cautiously, take note of the primary and secondary objectives, and see how the Op plays out - and learn from it for a future Op.

Of course when we see that this becomes a large issue we will address it.
However from a personal standpoint, I think there is merit to this comment - I think having the op be more challenging instead of a walk in the park is a good thing as well and might teach players new skills.On the other side it will disadvantage the players who were looking for a more casual gamemode to relax, so I can see that part of the argument as well.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Mr_Damager]

It shouldn't be a walk in the park. But it shouldn't be too hard either. The difficulty should be somewhere in between. Currently it is too hard, especially for tier 6 ships. Tier 6 ships and tier 8 ships face the same enemy.

[bai7200]

6 minutes ago, Mr_Damager said:

It shouldn't be a walk in the park. But it shouldn't be too hard either. The difficulty should be somewhere in between. Currently it is too hard, especially for tier 6 ships. Tier 6 ships and tier 8 ships face the same enemy.

No its not really to hard, the players are just to stupid, and pick a T8 unless you know what you are doing.

 

OP`s are simple

 

• Dont go by your own just to farm ships
• Dont pick ships you dont have a clue about playing. (CV captains, please follow this one)
• Listen to the team, some of then know what to do, if every screams that you are going the wrong way… then you are going the wrong way.
• Dont be a muppet and die In the first 5 min.

[Mr_Damager]

5 minutes ago, bai7200 said:

No its not really to hard, the players are just to stupid, and pick a T8 unless you know what you are doing.

 

OP`s are simple

 

• Dont go by your own just to farm ships
• Dont pick ships you dont have a clue about playing. (CV captains, please follow this one)
• Listen to the team, some of then know what to do, if every screams that you are going the wrong way… then you are going the wrong way.
• Dont be a muppet and die In the first 5 min.

Maybe you should read the first post and play the game (AEGIS) yourself.

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

3 hours ago, Seraphice said:

Of course when we see that this becomes a large issue we will address it.
However from a personal standpoint, I think there is merit to this comment - I think having the op be more challenging instead of a walk in the park is a good thing as well and might teach players new skills.On the other side it will disadvantage the players who were looking for a more casual gamemode to relax, so I can see that part of the argument as well.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

Imo it often mainly disadvantages players who know exactly what theyre doing, but who have team mates that dont. Make these ops such that a single player could somehow carry & the problem is nearly gone already

[BlackYeti]

Having gotten Aegis a few times this evening I can confirm it is almost an autoloss currently. Either your team gets overwhelmed or convoy sails past at full speed and stops only at map border at which point there wont be enough time left to reach exit. WG ya done goofed and the main culprit is the increased convoy speed compared to previous updates.

[Captain_82]

On 11/15/2022 at 10:18 PM, BlackYeti said:

Having gotten Aegis a few times this evening I can confirm it is almost an autoloss currently. Either your team gets overwhelmed or convoy sails past at full speed and stops only at map border at which point there wont be enough time left to reach exit. WG ya done goofed and the main culprit is the increased convoy speed compared to previous updates.

 

As a matter of fact I`ve won Aegis two or three times now (while playing in a Division).

Which is outstanding really given recent experiences.

 

The increased speed of the convoy escorts is indeed an issue.

 

[Captain_82]

On 11/15/2022 at 2:58 PM, Seraphice said:

However from a personal standpoint, I think there is merit to this comment - I think having the op be more challenging instead of a walk in the park is a good thing as well and might teach players new skills.On the other side it will disadvantage the players who were looking for a more casual gamemode to relax, so I can see that part of the argument as well.

 

What skills might that be?

 

As an Ops Main I can tell you that it is incredibly frustrating to witness all the mistakes ppl are making over and over again. Which leads often to defeat.

I get that not everyone has the same amount of experience as the veteran Ops-players.

 

Players should play many Ops more defensively.

I have seen countless matches where ppl just yoloed mindlessly, resulting in a defeat (Narai is a good example).

Which is tragic because most matches were completely winnable.

[Mr_Damager]

9 hours ago, Captain_82 said:

As a matter of fact I`ve won Aegis two or three times now (while playing in a Division).

Play without a Division, in a random team.

[lup3s]

4 hours ago, Mr_Damager said:

Play without a Division, in a random team.

 

Not sure if I understand this entirely.

Why should he play solo, if he can play in division ?

[Mr_Damager]

1 hour ago, lup3s said:

Not sure if I understand this entirely.

Why should he play solo, if he can play in division ?

Maybe he doesn't know that it isn't as easy as it was before the screw-up rework/update.

[zheng_he14]

IMHO, the reworked operations are fine, they are just spoilt by the people that you have to play with. I get wins playing operations consistently after midday on a Saturday because the folks that queue up for them know what they are doing and are there to score resources.

 

Other times you have morons who

 

Spend the end of a Cherry Blossom game shooting at DDs instead of the airfields

BBs chasing the CV and transports instead of protecting the convoy in Narai

BBs clumping together trying to hide in smoke right in front of a barrage of torps and dying in the first 5 minutes of AEGIS

Players hanging back instead of protecting the Ruan because they don't want to die in the final stages of Ultimate Frontier  

 

If people spent a minute to understand what the winning criteria is in each scenario rather than treat it as gunnery practice against bots then scenarios are fun otherwise I'd rather take my chances in Randoms because odds are there's just as many morons in the opposite team as in yours.

 

The only gripe I have with the rework is the removal of the time limit between re-entering a ship into ops means that if things look like its going south everyone just suicides so they aren't wasting their time this happens a lot in AEGIS

 

 

[Voigt__Kampff]

What would help would be a guide for new players to explain the objectives of the Op and the best strategy/tactics for acheiving a positive outcome.

 

This could be done with a quick video walkthrough showing an example of a successful operation and how it was acheived. It could also go through the best way to acheive the secondary objectives and which ships are best for what roles in the Op. A bit like a general strategy guide type thingy.

 

I do like the Ops and the biggest issue for me is a lack of knowledge from new players of what is required to complete the op, e.g. people sat around just shooting ships instead of heading to the exit in KW.

 

I do agree that Aegis is unbalanced at the moment.

[Captain_82]

On 11/17/2022 at 4:06 PM, Mr_Damager said:

Maybe he doesn't know that it isn't as easy as it was before the screw-up rework/update.

 

Is this supposed to be a joke?

For your information: I am an Ops Main with thousands of matches played, app. 10k. Maybe more, maybe less.

 

I am well aware how Aegis was before the rework, thank you.