AEGIS is almost unplayable since it was reworked

[RenamedUser_92906789]

As always, WG put ZERO thought into rework.

Here is why AEGIS is unplayable.

 

WG did not consider anything when upscaling the ops to T8.

 

- Enemies ships have greater detection, making the initial DD (now Fletcher) smoke way too soon.

- Enemies have greater speed traveling really fast to the south with the transport ships (they outrun the transport ships)

- Second wave trigger should be changed. Now any allied ship triggers them way too soon if it ventures just a tiny bit to the north.

- Ships from the second wave start shooting liberty ships (because now they have the range) and I had Nagato that spawned in the second wave kill a Liberty ship in the convoy

 

I could go on, but I wont. The operation is way too hard for the players and it results in 90% loss (from my experience).

Same goes for reworked Narai, where WG never considered that upscaled bots now have RADAR and greater range and speed.

 

Currently the two OPS that I loved the most before the rework (NARAI and AEGIS) have became the WORST for me with random teams.

 

TLDR:

Some OPS such as AEGIS have not been balanced based on upscaled enemy ships (considering their greater FIREPOWER / RANGE / SPEED / TOOLS ...).

Also if your team consists of mainly low tier ships (T6) enemy ships are same as if your team was whole T8.

 

I really liked the idea for WG to give us access to all operations and for higher tier ships ... but this was done extremely lazy.

Some operations are super easy but some are virtually unplayable. And again we have a situation where you hate some, but love others. Is trying them out and balancing them a bit too much to ask ???

I know I know ... people are bad ... but operations should not be frustrating to play. Especially not when they are delivered in "RANDOM" package.

 

Here is a (short and miserable - one of many) example how most AEGIS games look like with random people:

https://replayswows.com/replay/170224#scenario

 

 

@YabbaCoe @Seraphice

I dont know where the complaint box is ... but if you have one ... then please make a request, where the dev team should put at least 1 junior developer checking the OPS out. 

 

 

Out of around 10 AEGIS games literally every one ended like this:

 

 

 

 

 

[NewHorizons_1]

39 minutes ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

Enemies ships have greater detection, making the initial DD (now Fletcher) smoke way too soon.

Either that or it maybe the Fletcher has a larger detection range and it pops smoke when detected.

But, yeah that smoke is dropped a little too soon.

39 minutes ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

The operation is way too hard for the players and it results in 90% loss (from my experience).

Hard to say as I've not played it that many times since the rework. I do think the bots priorities have changed though.

So hopefully once players adapt, as I did, it'll become more viable.

I do not think it's a write-off though.

 

Narai, like a lot of ops, can suffer from bad players, usually in BBs who fall into 3 camps

1. Chase after enemy transports or CV instead of leaving it to a fast cruiser.
2. Sit outside the atoll ineffectively lobbing shells over the islands (snipah Nagato being somewhat of a cliché)
3. Slow BBs thinking they can flank, eg Colorados

Either way it means they're not entering the atoll along with the troop transports (which you're supposed to be protecting) thus they or the rest of the team, in light cruisers, are now drawing all of the incoming fire.

But I haven't noticed much of a change in difficulty in Narai, teams not withstanding of course.

 

One thing I will give WG credit it for is Hermes is now viable in a cruiser. That is a BIG improvement.

 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

1 hour ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

One thing I will give WG credit it for is Hermes is now viable in a cruiser. That is a BIG improvement.

 

Yes but don't say that too often. Its all they hear: "We brought back old ops".

Yes they did, but besides that they pumped up bots and opened T6,7,8 on every OP they did not balance out anything. Its like they haven't even tried it out. 

 

You know I have been listening "AIRCRAFT CARRIER LEXINGTON HAS ENTER THE COMBAT ZONE" (while Des Moines enters the map) since 2019 in Newport. Just utter lazy and without any enthusiasm.

 

 

[Matt_FSR]

28 minutes ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

You know I have been listening "AIRCRAFT CARRIER LEXINGTON HAS ENTER THE COMBAT ZONE" (while Des Moines enters the map) since 2019 in Newport. Just utter lazy and without any enthusiasm.

 

I admit, having not played Operations for a long time until they re-worked them for up to tier 8, I was looking for a CV for quite some time before repeated plays of Newport made me realise that WG are just so unfathomably lazy that they can't even be bothered to fix a simple, obvious, glaring mistake like this!

[bai7200]

Tobe fair, the main issue is not the Operation, more the muppets that play them.

• people throwing the ship away In the first 3min
• People nothelping the team, only thinking of them self.
• To many picking either the wrong ships, or ships they cant figure out how to play.
• People picking anything other tier then T8…..

 

Have not had issues In any of the OP`s, not more then before the rework.

 

[Ronchabale]

3 hours ago, bai7200 said:

 

• People picking anything other tier then T8…..

 

To me this seems to be the main issue

[lup3s]

The first problem with Aegis, as I stated earlier :

 

- the BBs are Nagatos instead of Fusos; many Cruisers can bounce 356mm AP but not 410mm AP

- the CAs are Myokos, Mogamis and Ibukis instead of Kumas, Furutakas and Aobas; tougher to kill and much harder hitting (IJN 203mm HE hits like a truck)

- the DDs are Akizukis and Kitakazes, instead of Fubukis and Shiratsuyus; these have better torpedo power (don't have to wait to reload since they have TRB) and they have LOT more firepower (most ships just melt when focused by 2 Kitakazes ...)

 

 

The second problem with Aegis (and other Ops in general), is that the average Wows player is just crap. They can't read the minimap or mission objectives, and they can't prioritize targets.

 

With randoms, Aegis is nearly guaranteed suffering; with a div on voice comm, it's the same race for damage as it used to be

[RenamedUser_92906789]

9 hours ago, Ronchabale said:

To me this seems to be the main issue

 

And it shouldnt be. People picking tiers isnt the problem, its how WG designed OPS that is the problem.

 

They promised dynamic (smart) bot scaling.

Meaning if everyone picked T8 the composition of bots should be different to that when half of team is T6.

 

OPS like that would be great for PVE people to grind T6 / T7 and T8. As it should be. Calling people who pick T6/7 a liability is just plain wrong and it shows the problem with OPS (Again).

 

It would take little effort to fix this, but we all know that WG is done with it and that we are stuck with this for years to come....

[Ymustihaveaname]

12 hours ago, Ronchabale said:

To me this seems to be the main issue 

I'm not sure, Im having fun playing & grinding Chumphon in ops occasionally, it's just that people in T6/7 need to take the "people throwing the ship away In the first 3min "to heart and play safe and also play supporting roles doing the secondary objectives to let the T8s do the main jobs and adding dpm by staying alive behind them (this also requires T8s to be wiling to tank for them...) ?

 

My main issue is just people dying too early so losing too much of the team's firepower or not taking being willing to do what would be the best the ship roles they should do, ie BBs not tanking for team CL/DD not running to get the single distant objectives that need doing, so rest of team can stay with convoys etc.

[Sams_Baneblade]

1 hour ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

As always, WG put ZERO thought into rework.

Here is why AEGIS is unplayable.

 

WG did not consider anything when upscaling the ops to T8.

 

1) Enemies ships have greater detection, making the initial DD (now Fletcher) smoke way too soon.

I agree on this point. Although it is not gamebreaking, losing 30s of smoke for nothing is a bit frustrating.

2) Enemies have greater speed traveling really fast to the south with the transport ships (they outrun the transport ships)

Are you sure about this? In my experience, convoy ships always had their top speed set on the transports', even back in the days it consisted in Kumas and Furutakas (top speed 34.5 knts).

3) Second wave trigger should be changed. Now any allied ship triggers them way too soon if it ventures just a tiny bit to the north.

I think their spawn isn't linked to player position, but triggered by the first wave's destruction or simply timed. My general rule is to never venture North immediately.
Step 1: I sit in smoke, bow towards south, and farm the first wave

Step 2: full speed ahead and make a 180° right turn towards north when the 2nd wave is spotted and I'm not focused. If I am, I already was in position to flee.

Step 3: I move north while keeping a 11-13km between the 2nd wave ships and my ship, not to be become the priority target, avoid IJN torps and farm broadsides for days.

PS: I don't follow this path if you ship isn't sailing at least 30 knts, or you'll be too late to do anything at the end of the mission.

4) Ships from the second wave start shooting liberty ships (because now they have the range) and I had Nagato that spawned in the second wave kill a Liberty ship in the convoy

Never paid attention to this, I never lost a transport before the late game. Sound more like a lack of players tanking/killing the second wave fast enough rather than game problem. But since I mostly farm broadsides by going to the Nort West, the second wave rarely does anything significant.

 

I could go on, but I wont. The operation is way too hard for the players and it results in 90% loss (from my experience).

Same goes for reworked Narai, where WG never considered that upscaled bots now have RADAR and greater range and speed.

I don't even remember the bots to use their consumables before. The Missouri hasn't changed, but I don't think it ever used it before the rework.

However, radar ships are always using it at the same spot and the same moment, so you can learn when to take cover/distance in a DD/smoke cruiser. Use the island to close on the Narai Missouri in a DD, and don't push the Cleveland in the harbour. Done.

Not trying to be patronizing here, but trying to find ways to make your experience more enjoyable despite the teams/uptiering problems. :) Because I don't trust WG to balance things properly, nor do I have many hopes regarding random teammates.
 

Currently the two OPS that I loved the most before the rework (NARAI and AEGIS) have became the WORST for me with random teams.

For me, it's Ultimate Frontier. The Op is nice, but ending up crossfired by a Missouri, A NorthCar and a bunch of DDs/CL is a bit rough no matter your class or Tier. Many games were with 1-2 survivors running away at best.

 

TLDR:

Some OPS such as AEGIS have not been balanced based on upscaled enemy ships (considering their greater RANGE / SPEED / TOOLS).

Also if your team consists of mainly low tier ships (T6) enemy ships are same as if your team was whole T8.

THIS is very annoying. The game should adapt the difficulty according to the average Tier of the players, not just the highest one. On top of that, it would add variety to the AIs spawned.

 

I really liked the idea for WG to give us access to all operations and for higher tier ships ... but this was done extremely lazy.

Some operations are super easy but some are virtually unplayable. And again we have a situation where you hate some, but love others. Is trying them out and balancing them a bit too much to ask ???

I know I know ... people are bad ... but operations should not be frustrating to play. Especially not when they are delivered in "RANDOM" package.

 

Here is a (short and miserable - one of many) example how most AEGIS games look like with random people:

https://replayswows.com/replay/170224#scenario

 

 

@YabbaCoe @Seraphice

I dont know where the complaint box is ... but if you have one ... then please make a request, where the dev team should put at least 1 junior developer checking the OPS out. 

 

[Jvd2000]

Eagis became a shitshow because:

 

• Average wows player is still as incompetent as ever.
• Aegis became more difficult ( after being one of the more reliable/easier one) after rework. Aegis was one of the few that did not receive a buff after last patch.
• The increased randomness of the initial spawns ( Nagato vs kitikaze’s vs cruisers) make a lot of difference. Even with good players it disables either BB’s ( they tank too much HP before the final phase) or CV ( plane losses due to aa) to actually carry the game.
• On the plus; a 4 star is still feasible by ignoring the killing of the 3 BB’s and just focus on escorting the convoys and looking after the shorchs. But even this is often too much to ask.

 

But in the end: with a good team all scenarios are a breeze. Problem is between chair and keyboard. Especially with T8 premium shipowners with less then 300 games behind their belt..who are, while capable to flash their creditcard, can’t read let alone react to any ingame messages.

[NewHorizons_1]

48 minutes ago, Sams_Baneblade said:

I don't even remember the bots to use their consumables before.

Clevelands in Narai (including the one that's upscaled from a Dallas before the Missouri appears) do use their radar.

So higher tier opponents is an added challenge. But that is all - a challenge that you can adapt to.

 

 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

8 hours ago, Sams_Baneblade said:

...

 

Second wave is triggered by crossing the invisible line. If the line is not crossed, then its triggered by timer.

Here a potato Nagato triggered second wave in the first minute.

 

 

As a result, whole team was dead within 3 minutes.

 

 

@Seraphice @YabbaCoe @Tuccy @Crysantos @MrConway

 

This is getting ridiculous. I am getting AEGIS every other OPS (and people also moan in game). Who will refund all my lost special bonuses?

 

[lup3s]

On 11/7/2022 at 12:12 PM, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

Out of around 10 AEGIS games literally every one ended like this:

 

Had one yesterday (in Kaga) where 3 out of 5 enemy escort ships made it to the J-line ... because I was the only one left alive to attack them (and I still had to deal with ships from the first and second wave )

 

We even had the Yamato and 2 other BBs spawn

[RenamedUser_92906789]

32 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

Had one yesterday (in Kaga) where 3 out of 5 enemy escort ships made it to the J-line ... because I was the only one left alive to attack them (and I still had to deal with ships from the first and second wave )

 

We even had the Yamato and 2 other BBs spawn

 

Had many of those. Would have saved the game, if the time would not have ran out. Transport ships are just too slow to make it to the exit in cases like this...

 

I only play Kaga in ops since the rework (and lines I grind). Never played CV, but in ops its pretty fun. The last game (img) I just stopped and laugh.

 

The really funny thing is that random ops is feeding me Aegis amost every second game.

[lup3s]

46 minutes ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

The really funny thing is that random ops is feeding me Aegis amost every second game.

 

I had it with Newport Defense last weekend

[RenamedUser_92906789]

19 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

I had it with Newport Defense last weekend

 

Newport is a delight with Kaga.

 

I always hated the ops, because players venture out of the port only to get themself killed. If they dont suicide, Kaga can wipe out more than half of the enemy ships. Especially torping the dds is pretty easy.

 

I also enjoy Ultimate frontier.

You just park the cv at the little island just left to the spawn area and farm everything.

You move to the center once the dds who go for the repar station are dealth with.

 

From all the (random) ops Aegis and Narai are the worst atm.

Except KW. That one is just boring.

[Captain_82]

1 hour ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

From all the (random) ops Aegis and Narai are the worst atm.

 

I`d rather play Narai ten times than having to play Raptor Rescue once.

 

Just had one of the luckiest wins possible (southern exit) with Raptor having app. 7k HP left (3 teammates were alive at that point) while two of our Cruisers were far behind her.

Its beyond me how so many freaking ppl can fail this basic primary mission requirement which is to protect the Raptor.

I did it, once again. They didn`t.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

8 hours ago, Captain_82 said:

 

I`d rather play Narai ten times than having to play Raptor Rescue once.

 

Just had one of the luckiest wins possible (southern exit) with Raptor having app. 7k HP left (3 teammates were alive at that point) while two of our Cruisers were far behind her.

Its beyond me how so many freaking ppl can fail this basic primary mission requirement which is to protect the Raptor.

I did it, once again. They didn`t.

 

I understand. Raptor is one of the OPS, where people need some brain to complete. If they have none its an easy fail (just like exit.points in KW, or protecting Alsace in Hermes...).

 

But the point of my post is that they made Aegis (and Narai) way harder by just scaling the bots. Also they did not consider T6/ T7 ships (smart scaling) nor how do higher tier bots affect the whole operation....

 

Currently Aegis is 90% fail in random teams (I know that divisions have no problem with iit, but we are talking about random ops), while Narai is 50%. And I am extremely sad, what all WG staff just ignores the thread.

 

They brought back ops only to ignore them.again as it seems. It would be a shame not to put a little effort into this and make it enjoyable for ALL people.

[Onsterfelijke]

Still complaining? I play a lot of operations and sorry with the extra teir (or 2) it makes it very easy to complete. Luckly i do those mostly in Division with friends which makes it easier but like in Ultimate Frontier we spawn on the wrong side and other players forget to sink key ships so we lose the plans and lose. I think that is the Players who did this not the operation.

 

Still it's a huge improvement with more diverse and i like it.

 

Even if i play single it's not so bad i think i lose 20% of the operations then.

 

I think the problem is mixing Tier what the problem is the MM should keep team as close as possible.

[Ronchabale]

It is possible to win and do pretty well

Not much of a score but..

 

 

[NewHorizons_1]

2 hours ago, Onsterfelijke said:

I think the problem is mixing Tier what the problem is the MM should keep team as close as possible.

Agreed, then T6 would be more viable.

However, I suspect there's probably not a large enough pool of players of T6 ships for the MM to form a team.

[Ymustihaveaname]

14 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

However, I suspect there's probably not a large enough pool of players of T6 ships for the MM to form a team.

Yes but thats a self-fulfilling prophecy as at the moment it's rubbish playing T6s as you will play in a T8 game, being able to play T6 to T8 is a great idea it just needs to be done right so T6s are not completely screwed by the MM?

 

(you could even really wild idea, give them the extra % HP buff they give to the Bots when playing with T8s...? ie just have a special invisible "HP flag" added to them if playing with T7/8 in code?)

[NewHorizons_1]

6 minutes ago, Ymustihaveaname said:

Yes but thats a self-fulfilling prophecy as at the moment it's rubbish playing T6s as you will play in a T8 game

Indeed. Having the MM form same tier teams should have been done from the start of the op rework.

How many T6's do you seen in ops nowadays?

And when you do how well do they perform / survive?

[ReDiR20]

55 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Indeed. Having the MM form same tier teams should have been done from the start of the op rework.

How many T6's do you seen in ops nowadays?

And when you do how well do they perform / survive?

 

I'm seeing quite a lot of T6, usually 1-2 per team. How well they performs depends more on the player than tier actually...

 

Aegis seems very similar to how it was in September. Just 3 BB that spawn later are now Nagato, so kinda easier

 

I tried Akizuki, stock Harbin, Brandenburg, stock Fuso and finished with +200k dmg games mostly. Several were loses though