I-56 Japanese submarine is eye wateringly bad and makes no sense.

[Corpsetaker]

Hello,

 

I was watching my mate play the I-56 last night and after watching the gameplay I asked him if I could have a look at the stats. This is in no defense of submarines and of course I would rather them gone but they are planning to sell this thing for real money and it's just terrible so I wanted to give my opinion on it as I really hate ships that seem useless. It looks like a developer just cobbled some randomness together and called it a Japanese submarine. Even from the standpoint of a submarine it doesn't make sense. I'm going to be comparing this to the German U-190 of the same tier. As you can see below the U-190 may have less HP but it's concealment is 5.6 on the surface while the I-56 is 7.2. One would think okay with such a massive detection range it would be really fast and maneuverable - sorry to disappoint but no. It has the same speed but the I-56 turning circle is 670 while the U-190 is at 480. Now at this stage one would think okay they will compensate all this by allowing the I-56 to stay underwater longer. Well sorry to disappoint again but the U-190 can stay underwater a little over 4 minutes while the I-56 can stay only a little over 2 minutes. Yes the I-56 replenishes it's battery power quicker but it means nothing really when you are forced to surface and you get blown away a second later. Even the ping distance is a joke because the U-190 gets a ping distance of 12.5 while the I-56 gets 6.0 (Yes only 6.0). Even the torp ranges are a joke because the U-190 has 12.5 for it's homing torps and the I-56 only has a range of 6.0 while the standard torps are 12.5. The submarine design is overall rubbish anyway but why add this garbage I-56 on top of it? Does Wargaming feel like submarines are hot rubbish so might as well just throw more on top and then charge people for it? Oh BTW the I-56 gets a SAP deck gun that will let you finish off some DD who is already about to explode anyway. We've been sitting here trying to figure out the role of the I-56 and the only thing we can come up with is it's a one shot kamikaze sub who could take out a full BB if he gets close enough and that's about it. 

 

Here is the U-190 with a 19 point captain.

 

 

 

Equipment: 

 

 

 

Captain Build:

 

 

 

 

Here are the stats with an 18 point captain.

 

 

 

 

Equipment:

 

 

Captain Build:

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

its limited but very capable hands can do great stuff in it. I just recently got a great game in it. kraken, 120kdmg.

[UnterSeeBot]

12k for the standard torps means I-56  can stealth torp, from a comfortable distance (and do more dmg than with homing torps). The big downside of homing torps, is that to get the most out of them, the submarine needs to ping the adversary, which reveals subs approximate location and warns the adversary ship that torpedos may have been launched.

Other than that, crying that a premium is not OP .. (when of course, I 56 is a very easy and forgiving submarine, ideal in many ways for a newish player, with its very large hp pool and ability to spam long range standard torps with few complications.)

[Corpsetaker]

4 minutes ago, UnterSeeBot said:

12k for the standard torps means I-56  can stealth torp, from a comfortable distance (and do more dmg than with homing torps). The big downside of homing torps, is that to get the most out of them, the submarine needs to ping the adversary, which reveals subs approximate location and warns the adversary ship that torpedos may have been launched.

Other than that, crying that a premium is not OP .. (when of course, I 56 is a very easy and forgiving submarine, ideal in many ways for a newish player, with its very large hp pool and ability to spam long range standard torps with few complications.)

Hello,

 

Where in my statement did I propose this needs to be OP in any way? 

[lafeel]

Clearly Yukikaze is rebelling for you putting her in a submarine instead of a DD.

[Corpsetaker]

5 minutes ago, UnterSeeBot said:

12k for the standard torps means I-56  can stealth torp, from a comfortable distance (and do more dmg than with homing torps). The big downside of homing torps, is that to get the most out of them, the submarine needs to ping the adversary, which reveals subs approximate location and warns the adversary ship that torpedos may have been launched.

Other than that, crying that a premium is not OP .. (when of course, I 56 is a very easy and forgiving submarine, ideal in many ways for a newish player, with its very large hp pool and ability to spam long range standard torps with few complications.)

Hello,

 

I would say you've never played the ship by your response. A U-190 can sit comfortably undetected for 4 minutes while spamming 12.0 homing torps and then turn around and send two more while it moves to a different location very quickly. I'm not sure where you get this idea of the I-56 being forgiving a beginner friendly.

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

I am taking a guess here: You got a main account ("mate", which you never tire of to cite during your entire forum history, and whose games you watch and analyze 24/7) where you play submarines, as well as a forum account (on which you have not played any games for months, and it looks like we have to be grateful) to discuss submarines without exposing yourself as a submarine player? 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 minutes ago, HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS said:

I am taking a guess here: You got a main account ("mate", which you never tire of to cite during your entire forum history, and whose games you watch and analyze 24/7) where you play submarines, as well as a forum account (on which you have not played any games for months, and it looks like we have to be grateful) to discuss submarines without exposing yourself as a submarine player? 

does that matter or is related to his question or topic? Do his motivations matter? Can you answer his questions about the sub or are you just here to attack his person and motives with baseless claims?

[UnterSeeBot]

8 minutes ago, Corpsetaker said:

A U-190 can sit comfortably undetected for 4 minutes while spamming 12.0 homing torps and then turn around and send two more while it moves to a different location very quickly.

= beginner friendly

[Corpsetaker]

Hello,

 

Forgot to mention the U-190 gets an unlimited number of Hydrophone uses while the I-56 gets only one and in order to get two you have to take Superintendent which is a three point skill.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 minute ago, Corpsetaker said:

Hello,

 

Forgot to mention the U-190 gets an unlimited number of Hydrophone uses while the I-56 gets only one and in order to get two you have to take Superintendent which is a three point skill.

yes this is a big issue and I don't understand why they made it that way. it can already only dive for 2min its not like it can freely spam that hydrophone underwater.

[Corpsetaker]

6 minutes ago, HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS said:

I am taking a guess here: You got a main account ("mate", which you never tire of to cite during your entire forum history, and whose games you watch and analyze 24/7) where you play submarines, as well as a forum account (on which you have not played any games for months, and it looks like we have to be grateful) to discuss submarines without exposing yourself as a submarine player? 

Hello,

 

Until submarines are gone or moved to their own game mode I'm not playing this game. I have a really good computer so I allow my mate to come over and play on it. I still like the game minus the submarines so he plays while I observe. Gives me my fix and allows to have good discussions with a friend. 

[Corpsetaker]

1 minute ago, AtaIante said:

yes this is a big issue and I don't understand why they made it that way. it can already only dive for 2min its not like it can freely spam that hydrophone underwater.

Hello,

 

Just can't work out how giving the I-56 a limited number of Hydrophone is supposed to balance it. 

[coldocean]

The I-56 is not great. It looks impressive in the first moment, but they just put the backside torps in front and reduced CD and gave it the mini-cannon gimmick, but they let the submarine pay a big price for that. Compared to other subs, I-56 got tons of cons, in my opinion.

[UnterSeeBot]

9 minutes ago, Corpsetaker said:

Hello,

 

Forgot to mention the U-190 gets an unlimited number of Hydrophone uses while the I-56 gets only one and in order to get two you have to take Superintendent which is a three point skill.

U 190 has unlimited hydrophone, but has a 5 minute prep time, and a 3 min cooldown after 1st use. In reality this means I use it once per battle, if at all (because using hydrophone gives away your presence in a sector.) So not really unlimited.

Give I 56 the same "unlimited" hydrophone with the same prep time (5 minutes and the same 3 min cd..)

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, UnterSeeBot said:

U 190 has unlimited hydrophone, but has a 5 minute prep time, and a 3 min cooldown after 1st use. In reality this means I use it once per battle, if at all (because using hydrophone gives away your presence in a sector.) So not really unlimited.

Give I 56 the same "unlimited" hydrophone with the same pre time (5 minutes and the same 3 min cd..)

No thats the sub radar you talk about.

hydrophone is available always 

[Corpsetaker]

3 minutes ago, coldocean said:

The I-56 is not great. It looks impressive in the first moment, but they just put the backside torps in front and reduced CD and gave it the mini-cannon gimmick, but they let the submarine pay a big price for that. Compared to other subs, I-56 got tons of cons, in my opinion.

Hello,

 

Exactly. I see no reason to play this instead of a DD as it's trying to be something it's not and fails miserably at it. 

[UnterSeeBot]

Just now, AtaIante said:

No thats the sub radar you talk about.

hydrophone is available always 

ah you mean the gimmick that updates last know position of surface ships? I don't know what the game calls that in English.

does I 56 have sub "radar" too? What are the stats (range, prep time and cd)?
sub "radar" is a far more powerful tool in my opinion, anyway. (just need to get the timing right with allies nearby to exploit it)

[Yosha_AtaIante]

no.i 56 doesn't have that radar 

[UnterSeeBot]

1 minute ago, AtaIante said:

no.i 56 doesn't have that radar 

ah, that is a little mean.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 minute ago, UnterSeeBot said:

ah, that is a little mean.

its highly crippling considering her concealment is also 7.1km.

 

so you take a massive risk being easily outspotted not only by dds but by all other subs. they can see you via hydrophone, the radar but you are always blind 

[lafeel]

10 minutes ago, AtaIante said:

its highly crippling considering her concealment is also 7.1km.

 

so you take a massive risk being easily outspotted not only by dds but by all other subs. they can see you via hydrophone, the radar but you are always blind 

To be fair the I-56 is one of the largest subs in the game. Also, let's face it, for all their fame for their carrier subs, the IJN subs weren't exactly world class..

[UnterSeeBot]

2 minutes ago, AtaIante said:

its highly crippling considering her concealment is also 7.1km.

 

so you take a massive risk being easily outspotted not only by dds but by all other subs. they can see you via hydrophone, the radar but you are always blind 

forces it to stay "in fleet" with allies, which doesn't sound fun for my playstyle (surfacing in middle of enemy fleet and causing panic and mad spamming of the report button). But then, there are maybe players who like that sort of thing?

[coldocean]

Vor 1 Minute, AtaIante sagte:

its highly crippling considering her concealment is also 7.1km.

 

so you take a massive risk being easily outspotted not only by dds but by all other subs. they can see you via hydrophone, the radar but you are always blind 

You cannot even cover the 7.1 by going doing down first tier, because you only got small capacity. Getting away under water should be problematic also, because you are pretty slow under water. 

 

Vor 1 Minute, lafeel sagte:

To be fair the I-56 is one of the largest subs in the game. Also, let's face it, for all their fame for their carrier subs, the IJN subs weren't exactly world class..

Good point.

[deathsadow]

Is it only me who thinks that I-56 is what subs should have been by standard ? 

 

Long range and decent normal torps.

Pretty bad mobility.

Very bad when forced to surface.

 

I would say that its not the I-56 what is weak ... but the U-190 is OP.