Waterline: Development Plan Updates – Fall 2022

[The_EURL_Guy]

All first-hand information about upcoming new game features.

Read it on the portal

[Obidav]

Submarines in Early Access

We're now sure that submarines in their current state fit well into the World of Warships gameplay and are ready for the next step—their full release in the game.

 

LOL ?

[Praetorias]

Its Autumn… not Fall, you can keep your crap americanisms!

[ReDiR20]

Finally, subs in tech trees, I was asking that for ages! Can't wait to grind them, since only rentals are not really appealing

 

New tech trees are interesting, but expected any Spanish line or French CVs sooner that any of these

[ColonelPete]

Subs and more superships....

 

... and US BB Carriers 

 

 

[USNavy_12]

In short: Nothing to look forward to.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

As usual, for all the good helpful improvements mentioned and positive things to look forwards too that deserve a thumbs up, sadly it's overshadowed and derailed by the likes of subs and now fast jet aircraft to basically render the 4 point investment in concealment pretty pointless. Classic WG.

[Varian_Dorn]

Lots of good stuff coming, for me at least. Early Access subs, Kearsarge B, more US hybrid BB....

 

I´m satisfied. Of course not all is gold that glitters, but overall I look forward to many things announced today. Good work Wargaming. Lets go!

 

EDIT:

 

[Smegger213]

Wargaming still pushing stupid subs into the game.

 

YOU JUST HAVE NO IDEA DO YOU WARGAMING.

NOBODY WANTS SUBS EXCEPT YOU.

 

WHY ARE YOU SO OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE PLAYER BASE?

[Varian_Dorn]

3 minutes ago, Smegger213 said:

Wargaming still pushing stupid subs into the game.

 

YOU JUST HAVE NO IDEA DO YOU WARGAMING.

NOBODY WANTS SUBS EXCEPT YOU.

 

WHY ARE YOU SO OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE PLAYER BASE?

Hi, I´m Mr. "NOBODY".... and my is family larger than you think, kid.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

1 hour ago, Varian_Dorn said:

Hi, I´m Mr. "NOBODY".... and my is family larger than you think, kid.

 

Go play Silent Hunter then.

 

I'm as objective as the next guy and I've played subs in this game to give them a fair shake. They're both sht to play and sht to play against. Subs don't suit this style of game. By nature they're stealthy ninja's of the deep that set traps and need a lot of time to get in position and this was something I loved doing in sub sims but the subs in this game is just taking the pis* and are mostly useless with little pockets of extremely broken and over-powered moments between the vast expanses of dorking about uselessly like a tard. 

 

It took for braindead homo-torps and meme levels of arcade to make subs barely viable in this game, but in doing so made the game even more toxic than it already was.

[Smegger213]

4 minutes ago, Varian_Dorn said:

Hi, I´m Mr. "NOBODY".... and my is family larger than you think, kid.

Well, if you like subs, you must therefore like coming in the bottom half of your team.

 

Its my experience that every time I see a sub on our team.

They end up either bottom on the team or in the bottom half.

 

I still think subs are the worse thing that Wargaming could have put into the game.

They will NEVER be able to balance them fairly for a surface ship player.

I will never play subs, or CV's for that manor.

 

This is just Wargaming pandering to the minority.

[Varian_Dorn]

1 minute ago, Smegger213 said:

Well, if you like subs, you must therefore like coming in the bottom half of your team.

 

Its my experience that every time I see a sub on our team.

They end up either bottom on the team or in the bottom half.

 

I still think subs are the worse thing that Wargaming could have put into the game.

They will NEVER be able to balance them fairly for a surface ship player.

I will never play subs, or CV's for that manor.

 

This is just Wargaming pandering to the minority.

The entire game, by its very nature, is unbalanced. Walking the line between a scent of realism and a fun game is hard, especially when events and vehicles that form the base for said game were not tied to "gaming" rules of "balance" in any way.

 

I´ve been angry numerous times, even to the point of a low-level hatred, upon certain experiences in this game. Yet I don´t reach for torches and pitchforks so WG may remove the "offending" game element.

Because so far there rarely have been instances when something truely was abnormally OP in this game. As far as I know and to my perspective there is nothing in this game currently that is exceptionally strong. Some vehicles are a bit on the weaker side, but overall... as balanced as this game can get I really do think it mostly is.

 

Also, if by "pandering to" you mean "including" then you might be right. So CV and Sub skippers dont form the majority... you better be glad about this. Otherwise MM would have to be adapted to include CV-rework levels of carriers again as well as more subs per battle. The backbone of every fight were, are and will bei the "regular" surface ships. Doesn´t mean theres no room for the "irregular" vessels.

[G_Teardrop]

11 minutes ago, Varian_Dorn said:

I´ve been angry numerous times, even to the point of a low-level hatred, upon certain experiences in this game. Yet I don´t reach for torches and pitchforks so WG may remove the "offending" game element.

Because so far there rarely have been instances when something truely was abnormally OP in this game. As far as I know and to my perspective there is nothing in this game currently that is exceptionally strong. Some vehicles are a bit on the weaker side, but overall... as balanced as this game can get I really do think it mostly is.

The problem with these "irregular" vessels is not the overall game balance or even the outcome of a single battle.

But that is what WG and, it seems also you, don't understand.

 

If I get deleted by a good battleship salvo, it was probably my fault. Because I did not protect my broadside. If I get deleted by a torpedo salvo in my battleship, it was probably my fault for not protecting my side and watching for signs of destroyers. But I can change these things. I can position better, and I can hunt these ships down. I can kill a DD in my battleship, and the DD has to respect my presence.

And that is the problem with submarines: Even if I know it is there, even if I try to avoid it, there is nothing I can do against it. I cannot charge it, and I cannot get away. Because even if I know where it is, even if I am close, I have no options to fight it, and kill it. Especially not in a cruiser.

 

So my gameplay get's extremely unpleasant, the flow of combat get's interrupted and I die without being able to fight the enemy that killed me. Which is a stupid experience in a game about surface ship combat.

 

CVs are similar, but using AA at least feels like I am doing something. And as a surface vessel, I can at least try to hunt the CV down. Because eventually I will see it. And CVs are, in the very end, necessary for this game for their spotting, because DDs and fast cruisers with low concealment would be way overpowered without them.

 

Submarines on the other hand are just unnecessary, boring and lead to very bad experiences in game. The game was fine without them, and it would be fine if they stayed out.

 

The game is objectively worse with submarines in it.

[Smegger213]

4 minutes ago, Varian_Dorn said:

The entire game, by its very nature, is unbalanced. Walking the line between a scent of realism and a fun game is hard, especially when events and vehicles that form the base for said game were not tied to "gaming" rules of "balance" in any way.

 

I´ve been angry numerous times, even to the point of a low-level hatred, upon certain experiences in this game. Yet I don´t reach for torches and pitchforks so WG may remove the "offending" game element.

Because so far there rarely have been instances when something truely was abnormally OP in this game. As far as I know and to my perspective there is nothing in this game currently that is exceptionally strong. Some vehicles are a bit on the weaker side, but overall... as balanced as this game can get I really do think it mostly is.

 

Also, if by "pandering to" you mean "including" then you might be right. So CV and Sub skippers dont form the majority... you better be glad about this. Otherwise MM would have to be adapted to include CV-rework levels of carriers again as well as more subs per battle. The backbone of every fight were, are and will bei the "regular" surface ships. Doesn´t mean theres no room for the "irregular" vessels.

Well, we all know that Wargaming don't know the meaning of the word "balance".

Plus Wargaming threw out any realism in this game as soon as they started adding stupid Anime ships, weird camos etc.

 

There are many beefs that I have against subs.

No1 being that they said back in the day that they would "NEVER" put subs in the game.

Back then the developers knew that subs would be a nightmare to balance.

But they now insist on putting them into the game, and its been proved right that they cannot balance them.

 

My No2 beef is the stupid use of wasting a damage control to mitigate a sonar lock.

This is without a doubt the dumbest mechanic that Wargaming have ever introduced.

Why is it so hard to introduce a separate mechanic on a cool down to counter a sonar lock?

 

I will never play subs myself, and I hate being forced to play against them.

Wargaming are doing a great job of driving players out of the game.

I came close to quitting, but it won't take much to tip me over the edge.

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, The_EURL_Guy said:

upcoming new game features.

Submarines are going to pollute the entire game now? I take it you've decided you don't want my money then? Fair enough - I hope for WG's sake that the griefers take up the financial slack of those you drive away.

[Wizard27_1979]

Just now, Verblonde said:

Submarines are going to pollute the entire game now? I take it you've decided you don't want my money then? Fair enough - I hope for WG's sake that the griefers take up the financial slack of those you drive away.

What's the difference to now where everybody can play subs?

[Varian_Dorn]

5 minutes ago, G_Teardrop said:

The problem with these "irregular" vessels is not the overall game balance or even the outcome of a single battle.

But that is what WG and, it seems also you, don't understand.

 

If I get deleted by a good battleship salvo, it was probably my fault. Because I did not protect my broadside. If I get deleted by a torpedo salvo in my battleship, it was probably my fault for not protecting my side and watching for signs of destroyers. But I can change these things. I can position better, and I can hunt these ships down. I can kill a DD in my battleship, and the DD has to respect my presence.

And that is the problem with submarines: Even if I know it is there, even if I try to avoid it, there is nothing I can do against it. I cannot charge it, and I cannot get away. Because even if I know where it is, even if I am close, I have no options to fight it, and kill it. Especially not in a cruiser.

 

So my gameplay get's extremely unpleasant, the flow of combat get's interrupted and I die without being able to fight the enemy that killed me. Which is a stupid experience in a game about surface ship combat.

 

CVs are similar, but using AA at least feels like I am doing something. And as a surface vessel, I can at least try to hunt the CV down. Because eventually I will see it. And CVs are, in the very end, necessary for this game for their spotting, because DDs and fast cruisers with low concealment would be way overpowered without them.

 

Submarines on the other hand are just unnecessary, boring and lead to very bad experiences in game. The game was fine without them, and it would be fine if they stayed out.

 

The game is objectively worse with submarines in it.

I thoroughly question your use of the word "objectively", especially since your measures are anything but objective.

 

I also would like to remind you that submarines are NOT Batman and thus do NOT appear out of nowhere in the perfect spot to attack and they also don´t fire off unavoidable doomsday blasts.

 

This is kinda paradox, don´t you think? Here´s you, basically describing a merciless predator, unseen, unavoidable. Yet some other guy claims subs rarely do anything and don´t matter that much which is one of the reasons he doesn´t like them. Sounds to me the haters can´t even agree on whether subs are boringly annoying or completely OP. Sounds to me as if the player driving them makes the difference.

 

Just. like. EVERY. damn. ship. in. this.game.

[Verblonde]

1 minute ago, Wizard27_1979 said:

What's the difference to now where everybody can play subs?

A full release means all modes in all likelihood. At the moment, it's possible to largely avoid the underwater ; with a full release it won't be.

[Smegger213]

1 minute ago, Wizard27_1979 said:

What's the difference to now where everybody can play subs?

Well, even when the threw subs at the players for free, only a small percentage of the player base are actually playing them.

[Smegger213]

1 minute ago, Varian_Dorn said:

I thoroughly question your use of the word "objectively", especially since your measures are anything but objective.

 

I also would like to remind you that submarines are NOT Batman and thus do NOT appear out of nowhere in the perfect spot to attack and they also don´t fire off unavoidable doomsday blasts.

 

This is kinda paradox, don´t you think? Here´s you, basically describing a merciless predator, unseen, unavoidable. Yet some other guy claims subs rarely do anything and don´t matter that much which is one of the reasons he doesn´t like them. Sounds to me the haters can´t even agree on whether subs are boringly annoying or completely OP. Sounds to me as if the player driving them makes the difference.

 

Just. like. EVERY. damn. ship. in. this.game.

They do fire doomsday blasts.

 

I have been caught out many times when I have suddenly had to face a stream of sub torps that I cannot avoid.

Plus how many ships are there in the game that cannot even counter a sub?

Lots of cruisers spring to mind.

[Varian_Dorn]

8 minutes ago, Smegger213 said:

Well, we all know that Wargaming don't know the meaning of the word "balance".

Plus Wargaming threw out any realism in this game as soon as they started adding stupid Anime ships, weird camos etc.

 

There are many beefs that I have against subs.

No1 being that they said back in the day that they would "NEVER" put subs in the game.

Back then the developers knew that subs would be a nightmare to balance.

But they now insist on putting them into the game, and its been proved right that they cannot balance them.

 

My No2 beef is the stupid use of wasting a damage control to mitigate a sonar lock.

This is without a doubt the dumbest mechanic that Wargaming have ever introduced.

Why is it so hard to introduce a separate mechanic on a cool down to counter a sonar lock?

 

I will never play subs myself, and I hate being forced to play against them.

Wargaming are doing a great job of driving players out of the game.

I came close to quitting, but it won't take much to tip me over the edge.

Recommend you just leave then. Sounds like this game has become more of a strain to your bloodpressure than enjoyment. And if I get bothered like this, I just stop playing.

 

Also, never say never.

 

As for realism, I wisely said "a scent of" - or did you ever consider WoWs "realistic"? You know, with the R/C crewless self-repairing ships? Camos just made them more colorful, colabs brought money and also made the game more fun - for those at least that DON´T always have some egocentric stick up their buttocks.

[Varian_Dorn]

12 minutes ago, Smegger213 said:

Well, even when the threw subs at the players for free, only a small percentage of the player base are actually playing them.

According to the latest forum poll, at least 14%. Which roughly corresponds with their overall presence in battles.

[Varian_Dorn]

11 minutes ago, Smegger213 said:

They do fire doomsday blasts.

 

I have been caught out many times when I have suddenly had to face a stream of sub torps that I cannot avoid.

Plus how many ships are there in the game that cannot even counter a sub?

Lots of cruisers spring to mind.

Name those "lots of cruisers", please. And if you have fallen prey to a sub attack as often as it sounds maybe, just MAYBE, don´t be such an easy target then. If I repeatedly fall prey to the same pattern of assault I usually try to adapt my tactics to avoid this instead of, you know, repeating the same mistake over and over.

 

But I guess your approach is "WG remove subs !!11"

[747BeerDrop]

Great stuff with the Subs ! Sweet salty tears