Hermes is a Disaster

[The_Norwood]

Guess what, if AA is pathetic, which it is, then Hermes operation is literally unplayable, the whole team just gets annihilated by planes.

Wake up and smell the coffee WG.

[Wizard27_1979]

11 minutes ago, The_Norwood said:

Guess what, if AA is pathetic, which it is, then Hermes operation is literally unplayable, the whole team just gets annihilated by planes.

Wake up and smell the coffee WG.

I did it 2-3 times on PTS with randoms and it worked fine - ofc the return includes planes, and they don't dodge flak, so running a ship with no AA is not recommended ^^ 

[invicta2012]

14 minutes ago, Wizard27_1979 said:

I did it 2-3 times on PTS with randoms and it worked fine

Nice for you. Other people's experiences may differ, I suppose.

 

16 minutes ago, Wizard27_1979 said:

ofc the return includes planes, and they don't dodge flak, so running a ship with no AA is not recommended ^^ 

Well, I guess the point is... what Bot CVs/planes, running what attacks, and what's the best defence? I've never played Hermes, is it a good idea to bring a specially strong AA ship and spec it out accordingly? It's not normally worthwhile to spec into AA, so most ships won't have the build ready. 

 

A new set of guides for the returned Operations is probably needed so people can decide on the best ships and best tactics. Failing that, a bit of helpful guidance from the more knowledgeable?

 

[ColonelPete]

In the past it was ok, since you could choose the right ship. Now you do not know if you will get the operation, unless playing in a division.

[Wizard27_1979]

27 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

 

A new set of guides for the returned Operations is probably needed so people can decide on the best ships and best tactics. Failing that, a bit of helpful guidance from the more knowledgeable?

You mean things like this? https://worldofwarships.eu/news/game-guides/your-guide-to-reworked-operations/

Or things in https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/forum/827-pve-corner/ ?

[The_Shungite_Wizard]

3 hours ago, The_Norwood said:

Guess what, if AA is pathetic, which it is, then Hermes operation is literally unplayable, the whole team just gets annihilated by planes.

Wake up and smell the coffee WG.

tbh ive been enyoing the OPs, i played aload on NA yesterday and on EU today, no problems 

[invicta2012]

2 hours ago, Wizard27_1979 said:

You mean things like this? https://worldofwarships.eu/news/game-guides/your-guide-to-reworked-operations/

Or things in https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/forum/827-pve-corner/ ?

No, not really. I mean something like this: 

 

 

 

So he takes out a DZP, shoots down 58 planes and does around 450k AA damage in a win. Looks as if an AA cruiser would be a good idea in this Op, but is it optimal in one of the others? Probs not.

[DeviousDave02]

5 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

So he takes out a DZP, shoots down 58 planes and does around 450k AA damage in a win. Looks as if an AA cruiser would be a good idea in this Op, but is it optimal in one of the others? Probs not.

Which is why.

3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

In the past it was ok, since you could choose the right ship. Now you do not know if you will get the operation, unless playing in a division.

Is a serious issue with the current Ops rework design.

 

For example I have just found out that AP bombs do next to nothing against the Aerodromes in Cherry Blossom. This means, because I don't know when that Op will ping now in my random rotation, that the entire German CV line is now non usable for Ops (and Hornet/Aquila too for that matter) as they can't hurt the Aerodromes due to having AP bombs and rockets that do something daft like 10hp of damage per direct hit.

 

Now I could hope my team mates kill them but if you end up with a weaker team it means you are very likely going to lose as you are effectively a ship down.

 

As per WeeGee standards this wasn't thought out well at all.

[Cirno9999]

any decent aa ships for that from 6-8?

[Verblonde]

3 minutes ago, Cirno9999 said:

any decent aa ships for that from 6-8?

The obvious picks might be the Dutch, although they'll probably be sub-optimal for most of the Ops without planes in?

 

That said, I got Hermes yesterday (on NA) in my Tone and didn't get crucified by the planes.

 

Although I dislike intensely not being able to pick specific ops as a solo player, it'll be a vaguely interesting exercise working out optimal picks for 'any' operation overall; at the moment, I'm tending to think healing cruisers as a starter for ten.

 

The other thought that occurred, where one has premiums available, is to have an ops-specific captain - perhaps swap concealment for some sort of AA/other skills? Having submarines forced on us (in my case, that means no more PvE, probably) might make this more practical, given - I think - there's a free reset coming.

[Dutchy_2019]

Nearly aced Hermes last night on NA with a Randoms Crew:

 

Mainz

Edinburgh (2x)

Tirpitz

Zieten

Massa

Graf Spee

 

 

We had one ship too few surviving, which had as much to do with many of the ships taking one side of the island where they could NOT support ships being fired upon. Most of us had NEVER played the opp before.

[ZygZag]

16 minutes ago, Cirno9999 said:

any decent aa ships for that from 6-8?

Atlana and clones? Helena? Clev? Chumphon? Harbin?

 

Anyway - it is just a start. Many people have no idea what "new ops" are about, have no idea what to do, etc. They will learn - I hope ... 

 

Up to now ops were for many a convenient way of farming credits or exping some tiers. Now it just started to be less convenient and more challenging. You can still do the grind with wider amount of ships but win is not guaranteed. Personally I am happy about that, I find it less boring than previous ops set.

 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

I would like to meet the guy, who thought that WAVES OF LUFTWAFFE AP BOMBERS was a great idea.

[Captain_82]

6 hours ago, The_Norwood said:

Guess what, if AA is pathetic, which it is, then Hermes operation is literally unplayable, the whole team just gets annihilated by planes.

Wake up and smell the coffee WG.

 

Might be offtopic ...

 

Well I did some testing today *cough* ... played 10 randomly chosen Ops - although the Winrate was 50% it was equally a disaster. *cough* *cough*

 

3x Defense of Noobport (all defeats of course), a couple of the Standard weekly ops (mixed bag regarding W/R), only two Ops were the "new" ones The Ultimate Frontier and Cherry Blossom.

 

And guess what - I lost both of them as well.

 

Guys, I`m done playing Random Ops at the moment - just a pure waste of time.

No, playing Defense of Noobport repeatedly, isn`t fun and engaging.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

I got Raptor, Aegis, Hermes and Killer Whale from the five I played.

 

The only real problem was Hermes, when the team got swamped by AP bombers.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 1 Stunde, Cirno9999 sagte:

any decent aa ships for that from 6-8?

I used mainly Kutuzov on PTS. Of course, not everybody has access to her.

[Weij0]

Today 2x Hermes, first with Rochester and second with North Cal. , gotta love random ops with random ppl... first was a easy win when ppl had a clue and second where ppl didn't had was a disaster. But picking a ship with decent AA and fast reloading guns is never a bad choice for Ops. 

[DeviousDave02]

Did WarGaming actually playtest this update?

 

The Aerodrome and AA forts on Cherry Blossom take almost no damage from AP but the game doesn't tell you this so you end up with players putting salvo after salvo of AP shells into the forts and then saying in chat "Why is the fort taking no damage?"

 

Even after you explain that you need to use HE you see BBs STILL slinging AP at them .

 

Also I would love to whack with an inflatable mallet whoever at WeeGee thought that giving those AA forts that guard the objective a unavoidable, continuous AA damage aura that kills fully kitted out planes with all the Captain skills on them at roughly 1.5 planes a second, making you lose the entire squadron just to get one drop off, was a good idea.

 

It's probably the same numpty who thought that filling every square inch of sky with Luftwaffe aircraft in Hermes to the point they need to form an orderly que to have their turn bombing the players ships was a good idea too. (saw an amusing sight of four squadrons chasing and bombing a player DD one at at time, then circling while they wait for the others to finish like they were too polite to push in.)

 

 

 

 

[Ronchabale]

Hermes is a Disaster

 

Hmm..  Yeah..

 

 

 

 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

I'm getting the distinct vibes here thet the Ops Rework has been another "Wargaming Rework Triumph"

[/sarcasm]

[Panocek]

4 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

No, not really. I mean something like this: 

 

 

 

So he takes out a DZP, shoots down 58 planes and does around 450k AA damage in a win. Looks as if an AA cruiser would be a good idea in this Op, but is it optimal in one of the others? Probs not.

Here is this preposterous idea of actually bringing DFAA instead Hydro, as bots don't evade flak.

 

Torps aren't that common in Operations, but planes just got major presence in few Operations.

 

1 hour ago, DeviousDave02 said:

Did WarGaming actually playtest this update?

 

The Aerodrome and AA forts on Cherry Blossom take almost no damage from AP but the game doesn't tell you this so you end up with players putting salvo after salvo of AP shells into the forts and then saying in chat "Why is the fort taking no damage?"

 

Even after you explain that you need to use HE you see BBs STILL slinging AP at them .

 

 

 

 

Forts always were immune to small caliber AP, Fiji vs Narai would be one perfect example. 203s and bigger should be able to clear targets just fine tho and didn't had issues doing so in PTS?

[invicta2012]

3 hours ago, Panocek said:

Forts always were immune to small caliber AP, Fiji vs Narai would be one perfect example. 203s and bigger should be able to clear targets just fine tho and didn't had issues doing so in PTS?

It's a good idea, as that's a no-cost option, but speccing into captain skills etc probably isn't going to happen.

 

3 hours ago, Panocek said:

Forts always were immune to small caliber AP, Fiji vs Narai would be one perfect example. 203s and bigger should be able to clear targets just fine tho and didn't had issues doing so in PTS?

Same as it ever was, as far as I can see.

[ZygZag]

I had 4xHermes today - all full T8. 1st and 2nd were total disasters - but it was clear almost all had no idea what is to be done and how to behave.

 

3rd was almost succes - but chat conversation showed that for most players using priority sector for AA was unknown possibility. Really :). Anyway - we almost got it...

4th full succes. People do start to learn, but it will take some time.

As @Panocek wrote - airfields annihilation in Cherry blossom can be done with Ap that has some punch/caliber. Besides - it is not very easy to learn how to aim them in proper way :)

[Weij0]

13 minutes ago, ZygZag said:

 

but chat conversation showed that for most players using priority sector for AA was unknown possibility. Really :)

 

Only if there would be some kind of helpful text to use it, oh wait, it did show a text in a top of the screen when scout planes arrive at start of the op.. (Use 'O' key ...). 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Juat played Hermes in Tier 8 Harbin with DFAA instead of Hydro (for all the good that it did me)

Relentlessly focussed by the bots even though I was furthest away ship away from them most of the time.

Stressful, overpowering. Only suvived because I had the smokes and the *New* Heal.

Played several other ops this evening. Not a fan - will create a thread.