Map border abuse and a potential fix - WG please read this

[Varian_Dorn]

Greetings fellow Captains.

 

 

Today's topic is by far nothing new as this is basically a thing since the earlier days of World of Warships. The way the map border works - and how some players abuse this to perform maneuvers which aren't possible normally.

 

As it stands now the border, upon driving into it, slows your ship to 50% engine power and lets you "skid" along roughly into the direction your ship is pointing/moving. You can change the speed of this skidding maneuver by both adjusting your engine setting and by increasing or decreasing your angle towards the border, which especially for more nimble ships means they can alter both their orientation and their movement speed in such a way that it becomes extremely difficult to hit them with anything.

This bugs me especially when, as I just witnessed by a streamer on twitch, a maneuver like this effectively tips the scale of a battle just enough for a win when previously this team was on the verge of defeat. Some would now say "hey, that's skill, bug off" - yeah, skillful abuse of a system that makes no sense.

 

So, I propose this: change the border to a system we actually already have in World of Warships, make it more similar to other team shooters (World of Warships IS a team shooter, your avatar merely happens to be a ship most of the time):

 

I propose to implement a slightly modified version of the "Rogue Wave / Savage Battle" event area limiter. In short, change the border lines so that they no longer stop your ship in any way but instead if you cross the border lines, after a short time, you take damage until you are destroyed if you don't return to the battlefield.

 

I'd even implement a short "safe" time in which you merely are warned that you have to return, say.... 15 seconds (the exact time frame would be determined by testing sessions to make it fair for more sluggish ships as well as agile ones); but once this time is up you take (!>) unrepairable (<!) continuous damage, say... 5% of your max hp every 4 seconds (again, the exact amount would have to be adjusted in testing) until you are destroyed or return to the combat area. And to avoid people in fast ships dancing around abusing the 15 seconds, the timer would not completely reset once you return to the play area but slowly over time (or alternatively fully reset after a while, say... 2 minutes maybe) with the option that repeat offenders don't get their timer reset and take damage immediately upon further "excursions" beyond the border.

 

Also, unlike Rogue Wave / Savage Battle, I recommend the ship remains detectable. As in, if you are detected by any means you stay detected and don't vanish once you cross the border. In Rogue Wave / Savage Battle, the "vanishing" makes sense as the play area keeps getting smaller - and getting shot while you already take damage outside of the playfield would be a bit too much.

The normal maps however have static borders, so it would be quite unfair if you'd be able to "cloak" your ship by hopping outside for a moment (I can already see players abusing such an option as well, taking some calculated amount of damage willingly in favor of being able to disappear no matter what for a short time).

 

 

With basically most other team shooters a border that kills you if you don't return quickly is widely known and accepted. Granted, if you die in most of those other games you can respawn thanks to a ticket system - but then again I DON'T propose instant death.

 

It is my opinion and hope that such a change would bring an end to warships performing skater tricks and I believe this would actually improve the game as you wouldn't suddenly slow down radically if you really unintentionally got a bit too close and make the game a bit more dynamic and "natural", so to speak. Even if it's literally just around the edges.

 

 

Now, I ask all of you, what do you think? Are you annoyed by border skaters too? Are you one who happily uses this as a combat tactic? What do you think about my proposition and the way "Rogue Wave / Savage Battle" uses playfield limitations? Do you think an adapted system like this would work?

 

 

I'm rather serious about this, so I ask that you remain constructive and somewhat polite.

 

 

 

Thanks for reading, 

          - Varian Dorn

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Its very simple to hit those ships as you simply need to align the horizontal aiming line with the map border and then leading correctly is very easy because of the reduced speed. That way you wont miss border humpers ever again.

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

3 minutes ago, Varian_Dorn said:

In short, change the border lines so that they no longer stop your ship in any way but instead if you cross the border lines, after a short time, you take damage until you are destroyed if you don't return to the battlefield.

You really want to punish the team even more for one player's stupidity? They do not care about deep black PR and 30% WR. They would happily abuse this to return to port even faster without punishment and granting the enemy their hp, because e. g. "enemy has more radar / op ships, I'm out".

[Varian_Dorn]

1 minute ago, Youshanai said:

Its very simple to hit those ships as you simply need to align the horizontal aiming line with the map border and then leading correctly is very easy because of the reduced speed. That way you wont miss border humpers ever again.

You know that, some others know that, yet it is still annoyingly effective. Plus I get the feeling you didn't fully read my proposal.

[SV_Kompresor]

I wouldn't make it as complicated as that. I'd just make it so that any ship that is sliding on the border has its reload increased by 50%.

[Varian_Dorn]

1 minute ago, Von_Pruss said:

You really want to punish the team even more for one player's stupidity? They do not care about deep black PR and 30% WR. They would happily abuse this to return to port even faster without punishment and granting the enemy their hp, because e. g. "enemy has more radar / op ships, I'm out".

If a player really wants out, he just quits to port or drives into the enemy. If someone acts this childish there's no way to "keep them alive", a different border mechanic won't change anything in this matter, the player is the problem here, not the game.

[SkipperCH]

One of the easiest solutions would be locking/disabling a ships armament for the duration of it touching the map border. No torpedos, AA, planes, secondaries or artillery. 

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

Just now, Varian_Dorn said:

If a player really wants out, he just quits to port or drives into the enemy. If someone acts this childish there's no way to "keep them alive", a different border mechanic won't change anything in this matter, the player is the problem here, not the game.

Quitting to port = punishment. And some of these squeakers are that deliberate they do not want enemies to get some damage in and thus would abuse this system instead of suiciding into the enemy. You can see it also in WoT when artilleries drown themselves, to deny the enemy hp.

 

Hugging the border simply should bounce the ship back into the sea like it does with planes.

[Varian_Dorn]

Just now, SV_Kompresor said:

I wouldn't make it as complicated as that. I'd just make it so that any ship that is sliding on the border has its reload increased by 50%.

Which, again, would be casually accepted and used by many, especially when said reload is rather fast. Yeah, a Yamato might jump from 30 seconds to 45 - but a Friesland would, what, get raised to a whopping 4,5 seconds tops? Sorry, that would neither be fair nor have any effect, especially not on ships with fast reload.

[Varian_Dorn]

1 minute ago, SkipperCH said:

One of the easiest solutions would be locking/disabling a ships armament for the duration of it touching the map border. No torpedos, AA, planes, secondaries or artillery. 

An interesting suggestion, though I would go a bit further and also lock the ships systems, basically everything shuts down except engine and rudder control. No damage con or repairs in addition to what you proposed.

[Varian_Dorn]

2 minutes ago, Von_Pruss said:

Quitting to port = punishment. And some of these squeakers are that deliberate they do not want enemies to get some damage in and thus would abuse this system instead of suiciding into the enemy. You can see it also in WoT when artilleries drown themselves, to deny the enemy hp.

 

Hugging the border simply should bounce the ship back into the sea like it does with planes.

Hm, this would also be interesting, even though it would look quite odd and probably would lead to some people actively using this for evasive maneuvers as well - again, especially for more agile ships this would actually be helpful instead of a "punishment".

 

The problem with petty egocentric players is they will always find a way to abuse existing parameters, but apart from intentional suicide I believe my idea has merit. As for those who would use this as a get out of battle free card - maybe a function could be implemented that punishes players if they intentionally kill themselves like this. This would be hard to adjust but not impossible.

[Thalandor_gaming]

How about giving the ship one flooding that is renewed every second. You can use your damage control party to negate the effect and get out of the border quickly and back into the fight but if you actually want to abuse you get punished by a more or less permanent flooding. The reduced engine power effect can be removed as the flooding already does the same.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

It is still abusable currently, yes. Punishing out of map bounds by applying damage are a great tool in a respawn wave style PVP game, but they are damaging to single spawn type games.

 

Edit: original post was tldr. You already know this.

[ColonelPete]

Repeating the same proposal, that was ignored dozens of time, is quite pointless.

[Varian_Dorn]

3 minutes ago, Thalandor_gaming said:

How about giving the ship one flooding that is renewed every second. You can use your damage control party to negate the effect and get out of the border quickly and back into the fight but if you actually want to abuse you get punished by a more or less permanent flooding. The reduced engine power effect can be removed as the flooding already does the same.

I like this, it's a similar direction as my idea, easier to implement. Plus punishment to abuser could be regulated by having "themselves" as source for this damage, and thus making them "pink" for team damage and applying the normal punishment system.

 

Good idea, thank you.

[Varian_Dorn]

12 minutes ago, Europizza said:

It is still abusable currently, yes. Punishing out of map bounds by applying damage are a great tool in a respawn wave style PVP game, but they are damaging to single spawn type games.

The question is though if people would be still so eager to go to the border when they know they ccan basically kill themselves and thus reduce their and their team's chance at victory. Remember, I'm not proposing an insta-kill feature, you can still recover and get back, but if you don't, you will gradually get damaged until you blow up. By my calculation it would take a total of 95 seconds for ship at full hp to be destroyed in my proposal. Plenty of time to react, don't you think?

 

 

EDIT: Yes, I know, wall of text 'n stuff. Oh well.

[Varian_Dorn]

4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Repeating the same proposal, that was ignored dozens of time, is quite pointless.

Forgive my lack of attention in the forum, I was not aware this was proposed already. However times change, maybe this time it will be different. One can try at least, and World of Warships, for better or worse, has changed over the years considerably.

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Varian_Dorn said:

Forgive my lack of attention in the forum, I was not aware this was proposed already. However times change, maybe this time it will be different. One can try at least, and World of Warships, for better or worse, has changed over the years considerably.

Yes, when the head does not go trough the wall, one might give it another try.

[Varian_Dorn]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Yes, when the head does not go trough the wall, one might give it another try.

It truely depends on what shatters first though, doesn't it? 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

1 hour ago, SkipperCH said:

One of the easiest solutions would be locking/disabling a ships armament for the duration of it touching the map border. No torpedos, AA, planes, secondaries or artillery. 

This is one idea, the other one would be to quadruple the damage taken while the border humping debuff is active, that would certainly discourage anyone. Or do both.

 

On a side note, I notice some ships are much worse for escaping the border (I admit, sometimes turning broadside to the enemy is no option and you are forced into it). Incomparable comes to mind, I don't know why that is (I'm guessing it's the absurd length of the thing), but it takes ages to get out.

[Ronchabale]

2 hours ago, SkipperCH said:

One of the easiest solutions would be locking/disabling a ships armament for the duration of it touching the map border. No torpedos, AA, planes, secondaries or artillery. 

Yes, that and all consumables locked, no DC no repair etc.

[lafeel]

3 hours ago, SkipperCH said:

One of the easiest solutions would be locking/disabling a ships armament for the duration of it touching the map border. No torpedos, AA, planes, secondaries or artillery. 

That should do the trick yes.

[Varian_Dorn]

1 hour ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

This is one idea, the other one would be to quadruple the damage taken while the border humping debuff is active, that would certainly discourage anyone. Or do both.

 

On a side note, I notice some ships are much worse for escaping the border (I admit, sometimes turning broadside to the enemy is no option and you are forced into it). Incomparable comes to mind, I don't know why that is (I'm guessing it's the absurd length of the thing), but it takes ages to get out.

A good idea as well, also easily implementable by my (very basic) estimate.

 

Said streamer conincidently was driving Incomparable and, by my personal evaluation, was only able to avoid destruction due to said skating tricks, evading enough hits and buying enough time to engage repairs (while still clinging to the border).

[Varian_Dorn]

Thanks to everyone so far for keeping this discussion civil and productive, I really think there are very good ideas here. If you have more observations, thoughts and ideas please bring them to the table.

 

While I myself can be an enormous arrogant pr*** at times and with certain topics I do enjoy a healthy debate and an exchange of creative thinking quite a lot.

So please, if you have something to contribute, join right in.

 

Maybe, just maybe, our dear hosts (aka Wargaming) will take notice. Stranger things have happened.

[Ruth_clifton]

it is not  FAIR  NOW