North Carolina 3rd Equipment Slot Headaches

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Hi guys,

 

I like the NC, it's a beautiful BB and imho it's actually pretty good too, and T8 is a nice sweet-spot in this game too, avoiding the superdooper ships and yet still being competitive even as a bottom tier somewhat supporting role, and of course, extra fun when drawn against T6 ships, rare though that may be. 

 

Fine. Thing about these US BB's(and not sure if common across the board), is that the NC doesn't have the usual Aiming System Mod for the 3rd slot and obviously that's what I would have gone with if the option was there. I guess because she already has excellent 2.0 Sigma it kinda doesn't need it. Thing is though, this has created a bit of a headache in regards what equipment to actually go with.

 

The options and pros and cons.

 

Main Battery Mod = +15% turret traverse speed. This is actually a pretty decent option since the NC turrets are slow BUT, thing is, I have Commander John Doe with Grease The Gears for +25% traverse speed so... kinda don't feel I need any more.

 

AA Gun Mod = -20% Sec prep time. Mehh... now, if that came with a +10% AA gun buff or something like that, fine, I'd actually consider it but otherwise seems like a bit of a waste tbh unless someone can outline how that's actually beneficial.

 

Artillery Plotting Room = +16% main battery range, +5% secondary range and dispersion.(Currently installed). Thing is though, the NC already has pretty impressive 23.26km range by default and the AP shell velocity is pitifully slow with a big old arch on it just to add to the time getting from guns to target. Realistically she isn't going to hit anything much over 20-23km anyway as the targets have about 3-4 years to understand there's shells inbound and just slow or speed up or turn. Now, this doesn't stop be trying to hit targets at 27km lol!! BUT, it's not with any real expectation. Sure, it can and does surprise some static CV's at the back of the map when my own CV spots them, I guess they're just not expecting a salvo from a T8 ship at that range especially if it's a T6-T9 battle and their CV is a T8 or T6 but I'm not going to say that happens very often and it's pretty rare and it doesn't exactly kill the CV either, just gives them a fright more than anything. So this equipment is installed more from a lack of options than anything and not willing to leave the slot empty.

 

Secondary Battery Mod  = +20 sec range -20% dispersion. Ok so this is actually the best looking from a bad choice option. Here's the thing, the NC secs 10X2 127mm only have 21mm of pen and we're looking for 32mm right? Even with IFHE that's still only 26mm and so not worth the 2 skill points. That said, they do offer 5% fire chance as standard, have a fast reload of 6 seconds and have really nice looking twin gun turrets of 5 on each side so 10 guns each side. The turrets are not the casemate type and you can see the screenshot, instead they're the very nice type in turrets with some great looking angles that should theoretically be able to swivel around and have all 5 turrets shooting 10 guns at a ship every 6 seconds. That's 10 guns with 5% base fire chance which can be boosted to 7% or maybe more(I forget the options)) and with this Mod will have a reach of 8km which itself can be boosted a bit more with Mike Yankee. Now, that's not amazing and I wouldn't see the NC as a sec build nor bother putting skill points trying to make it one, BUT, with such poor options for the 3rd slot, maybe having a ship with all those little fire poppers chipping away on ships that drift within 8km of her might not be a bad option when held against the other poor options? It might also bolster a close fight finale where ships are bow-tanking and using HE is the only viable options which the NC boasts a 36% standard. Certainly ain't no Conqueror but for T8 and the ships it see's that's actually not bad and the HE has much better shell velocity on it too. Obviously the default play is mid-long range AP slinging BUT, if needs be, maybe that's a nice plan B to have. 

 

What do you guys think. Take a look at here secondary guns and how they actually look like they can all swivel and land all at the same time even at some sharp angles. I've never tried and like I said I wouldn't play it as a secondary build BUT, like I said maybe this is the best option from a bad 3rd slot bunch?

 

[tocqueville8]

Unless you actually build for secondaries, captain skills and all, which would be an...interesting...choice for USN tech tree BBs, the benefits they provide are marginal.

 

Go for turret traverse. You never have "too good" turret traverse.

[Itwastuesday]

They're all trash, but the range secretly improves your dispersion iirc. Also you might get to snipe carrier.  

 

Secsmod alone does nothing, you need the accuracy skill to land more than a hit on just about anything. 

[ollonborre]

Just go for traverse honestly. There is a slight dispersion reduction with the range mod but I personally would use traverse more than a negligble dispersion improvement. And if you want range spotter plane scratches that itch.

[Yedwy]

Artilerry plotting room on all us bbs except perhaps Massa/Gorge and Ohio, imho better have range and not need it then need it and not have it…

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

I bought her 1 hour ago and opted for turret traverse. Range and accuracy are nice to have, but if you can't turn your turrets at the target in time... doh.

[tocqueville8]

Turret traverse is effectively both

• a damage buff: it will allow you to snapshot some targets when they're full broadside instead of a couple of seconds later, when they might've angled; it will also allow to shoot, regardless of the angle, before they disappear
• a survivability buff, as you can maneuver more harshly to angle/dodge, and still keep your guns on target.

[Panocek]

Turret traverse. With John Doe for captain you're getting Russian Bias tier turret traverse, which can catch people off guard. Especially when coupled with hull turning, something NorCal does well.

 

1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

Artilerry plotting room on all us bbs except perhaps Massa/Gorge and Ohio, imho better have range and not need it then need it and not have it…

Technically yes. In practice, NorCal have 23km range out of the box. Tack spotter plane (because why you'd use Fighter now) onto her and you get almost 28km range. With range mod you should get around 32km range if I can into math... and something like 24s shell flight time

[KillStealBoss]

Turret traverse is good for me on NC. 

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

3 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys,

 

I like the NC, it's a beautiful BB and imho it's actually pretty good too, and T8 is a nice sweet-spot in this game too, avoiding the superdooper ships and yet still being competitive even as a bottom tier somewhat supporting role, and of course, extra fun when drawn against T6 ships, rare though that may be. 

 

Fine. Thing about these US BB's(and not sure if common across the board), is that the NC doesn't have the usual Aiming System Mod for the 3rd slot and obviously that's what I would have gone with if the option was there. I guess because she already has excellent 2.0 Sigma it kinda doesn't need it. Thing is though, this has created a bit of a headache in regards what equipment to actually go with.

 

The options and pros and cons.

 

Main Battery Mod = +15% turret traverse speed. This is actually a pretty decent option since the NC turrets are slow BUT, thing is, I have Commander John Doe with Grease The Gears for +25% traverse speed so... kinda don't feel I need any more.

 

AA Gun Mod = -20% Sec prep time. Mehh... now, if that came with a +10% AA gun buff or something like that, fine, I'd actually consider it but otherwise seems like a bit of a waste tbh unless someone can outline how that's actually beneficial.

 

Artillery Plotting Room = +16% main battery range, +5% secondary range and dispersion.(Currently installed). Thing is though, the NC already has pretty impressive 23.26km range by default and the AP shell velocity is pitifully slow with a big old arch on it just to add to the time getting from guns to target. Realistically she isn't going to hit anything much over 20-23km anyway as the targets have about 3-4 years to understand there's shells inbound and just slow or speed up or turn. Now, this doesn't stop be trying to hit targets at 27km lol!! BUT, it's not with any real expectation. Sure, it can and does surprise some static CV's at the back of the map when my own CV spots them, I guess they're just not expecting a salvo from a T8 ship at that range especially if it's a T6-T9 battle and their CV is a T8 or T6 but I'm not going to say that happens very often and it's pretty rare and it doesn't exactly kill the CV either, just gives them a fright more than anything. So this equipment is installed more from a lack of options than anything and not willing to leave the slot empty.

 

Secondary Battery Mod  = +20 sec range -20% dispersion. Ok so this is actually the best looking from a bad choice option. Here's the thing, the NC secs 10X2 127mm only have 21mm of pen and we're looking for 32mm right? Even with IFHE that's still only 26mm and so not worth the 2 skill points. That said, they do offer 5% fire chance as standard, have a fast reload of 6 seconds and have really nice looking twin gun turrets of 5 on each side so 10 guns each side. The turrets are not the casemate type and you can see the screenshot, instead they're the very nice type in turrets with some great looking angles that should theoretically be able to swivel around and have all 5 turrets shooting 10 guns at a ship every 6 seconds. That's 10 guns with 5% base fire chance which can be boosted to 7% or maybe more(I forget the options)) and with this Mod will have a reach of 8km which itself can be boosted a bit more with Mike Yankee. Now, that's not amazing and I wouldn't see the NC as a sec build nor bother putting skill points trying to make it one, BUT, with such poor options for the 3rd slot, maybe having a ship with all those little fire poppers chipping away on ships that drift within 8km of her might not be a bad option when held against the other poor options? It might also bolster a close fight finale where ships are bow-tanking and using HE is the only viable options which the NC boasts a 36% standard. Certainly ain't no Conqueror but for T8 and the ships it see's that's actually not bad and the HE has much better shell velocity on it too. Obviously the default play is mid-long range AP slinging BUT, if needs be, maybe that's a nice plan B to have. 

 

What do you guys think. Take a look at here secondary guns and how they actually look like they can all swivel and land all at the same time even at some sharp angles. I've never tried and like I said I wouldn't play it as a secondary build BUT, like I said maybe this is the best option from a bad 3rd slot bunch?

 

 

Due to how WG calculates the accuracy it is the BEST to ALWAYS (if possible) equip USA BBs (standard ones of course - i.e. not the Secondary builds) with "Artillery Plotting Room" because it:

• increases range
• increases accuracy

 

I have it on my all USA BBs (not the Secondary specced ones of course)!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

[Miragetank90]

Turret traverse increases comfort and ergonomics. For this specific ship, the other options are meh. 

Base range is more than enough and a NorCal wants to get closer to maximise its good and lessen the bad, not stay too far away. 

 

So yeah. Idk if anyone else has mentioned traverse mod. Did they? Oh well. Traverse mod.

[22cm]

Using the John Doe captain + Main Battery Modification 2:  31,3 secs for 180 degrees turn + 23.26 km range.

 

 

Using the John Doe captain + Artillery Plotting Room: 36 secs for 180 degrees turn + 26,98 km range.

 

 

Range is more than enough for any of the 2 options, and the traverse difference is 4.7 secs  for a 180 degrees turn, while usually you need a turn below 90 degrees, so the difference  will be 2 secs or less, hard to notice.

 

 

On the other hand, in first slot you may try the coal Damage Control Party upgrade, that makes the fire/flood immunity last 28 secs instead of 20 secs, if you know how to use it to make a difference, the turrets should be strong enough.

 

 

Also equip spotter plane if you can consistently hit ships in smoke using it (not for the extra range). If not,  equip fighter to spoil griefers fun.

 

 

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PASB012&modules=1222&upgrades=511120&commander=PAW101&skills=65&consumables=111&pos=0

[tocqueville8]

2 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Due to how WG calculates the accuracy it is the BEST to ALWAYS (if possible) equip USA BBs (standard ones of course - i.e. not the Secondary builds) with "Artillery Plotting Room" because it: 

• increases range
• increases accuracy

I have it on my all USA BBs (not the Secondary specced ones of course)!

 

The only USN BB where I took Artillery Plotting Room is the West Virginia 1941, and only because the base range is a sorry 16 km.

 

Now I'm curious...

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

22 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

The only USN BB where I took Artillery Plotting Room is the West Virginia 1941, and only because the base range is a sorry 16 km.

 

Now I'm curious...

 

The way WG calculates the accuracy means that if you get module to increase the range you actually increase your accuracy at ranges lower or equal to your range before installing the module!

 

It is proven fact that players have discovered and tested!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[tocqueville8]

3 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

It is proven fact that players have discovered and tested!

 

I've heard about it but by how much? The turret traverse is easily measurable...

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

15 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

I've heard about it but by how much? The turret traverse is easily measurable...

 

I will try to find the threads about that for you...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

Here is the thread (mine):

 

 

 

Here is original Reddit thread:

 

 

 

 

 

And post by our @Saltface  in my thread:

 

On 2/13/2021 at 7:20 AM, Saltface said:

Let me try to contribute to this one.

I will start with a point of interest. But, it should be taken with a pinch of salt (pun not intended) because what I will state is to the best of my recollection. And I 'm old and my memory might not serve me well in this case.

"Shell tracers do not reflect the actual shell path. They are adjusted to our screens and the needs of the graphics of the game. The starting point (muzzle) and ending point (splash / where the shell hits the water) are however accurately represented."

The above might help Messrs. @Odo_Toothless and @cherry2blost in their dispute.

 

Now, I just did some work on the graphs. Both are essentially the same. In this respect what applies to one applies to the other. So I 'll just show one here.

 

Lets see what we have here:

On X axis we have the shooting distance and on the Y axis we have the Vertical Dispersion (or Horizontal Dispersion - the mechanics are the same). 

Point 1 represents the Minimum Vertical Dispersion (radiusOnZero) - which is achieved when you shoot at point blank

Point 3 represents the Maximum Dispersion (radiusOnMax) - which is achieved when you shoot at your ship's maximum shooting range - (maxDist - point 8)

Point 2 represents the Vertical Dispersion at a shooting distance named delimDist. delimDist is a function of maxDist (Point 8)  and it is actually the distance at which the dispersion starts growing "slower" as distance is increased compared to the rate of growth of the dispersion  for distances between 0 and delimDist.

 

What does this mean?

Lets assume we are shooting at a target X which is at the maximum shooting range of our ship (maxDist - Point 8 on the X axis).

According to the graph our Vertical Dispersion will be that of point 5. It will be radiusOnMax which is actually the horizontal projection of Point 5 on the Y axis. This is Point 3 as we said before on the Y axis.

 

Now If we increase (with modules, skills, consumables) the shooting range of our ship from (maxDist - Point 8 on the X axis) to a new maximum range (NEWmaxDist - Point 9 on the X axis) and we continue shooting at the same target X, then,

since the radiusOnMax does not change, the  NEW Vertical Dispersion while shooting at the same target X will be that of point 6. This is Point 4 on the Y axis. Which is less than radiusOnMax.  By how much? By the vertical distance of Point 5 to Point 6 (or Point 3 to Point 4 on the Y axis).

The NEW Vertical Dispersion while shooting at the same target X is the point where an horizontal line from Point 6 intersects the Y axis. This is Point 4 on the Y axis.

 

Actually this has effect on all shooting distances between delimDist and maxDist (new or old)

Just look at the green dotted line.

 

So when you load a module that increases your maximum shooting range on any ship your dispersion (for shooting ranges greater than delimDist) will be less compared to shooting at the same distance without the modules.

 

 

 

And some other interesting posts from my thread:

 

On 2/13/2021 at 12:07 PM, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

So let me get this straight:

The upshot seems to be that if you add a range mod, then you are rewarded with increased accuracy at shorter ranges.

Even straighter:

If you had a max range of 20 km and add a range mod to get 23 km, you now actually get better vertical dispersion at 20 km than without the range mod.

And the only penalties you pay are

1) increased concealment bloom when firing the guns and

2) any drawbacks incurred by not using another mod instead of the range mod. Like, standard reload instead of accelerated reload because you are using the range mod instead of the faster-reload mod.

 

On 2/13/2021 at 12:24 PM, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Well that was one thing I used to worry about before getting Thunderer because I thought my aim was too sucky to actually make use of Thunderer accuracy.

Turns out it was largely unfounded.

I think this even made me choose several other ships before getting the Thunderer.

Which in retrospect would be really annoying, were it not for the fact I don't really play Thunderer that often because CVs exist and because DDs are therefore generally too sucky to enjoy BB gameplay and because wait times in the queues are so high.

EDIT: Further implications concern the USN BBs with that Artillery Plotting Room upgrade. I never even used to take it, much, especially not upwards of Tier VII since the ships weren't exactly starved of range, especially not NC etc. with those low velocity ballistics. But if it turns out it comes with an in-built free accuracy boost... well. That is a different story. And you can take it from Tier V.

I should have known this while slogging through the godam Kansas.

 

On 2/13/2021 at 10:48 PM, Estaca_de_Bares said:

Almost, but not entirely correct. According to the definitions given in the claim, delimDist and maxDist are directly proportional...

...so delimDist also moves further away, hence horizontally stretching the whole graphic and not only the [delimDist, maxDist] interval. As a result, there's a reduction in the coefficient (i.e., an improvement in the vertical dispersion) at any distance bar zero. Another effect is that, depending on their slopes, between both delimDists (the one without and the one with upgrades), although you get better absolute coefficient as a whole, the relative improvement could diminish with distance:

 

Salute.

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[BruceRKF]

Yes, more range does indeed improve your vertical dispersion slightly.

However, personally for me the benefit is not worth losing out on faster turrets. I hate slow turning turrets with a passion, so much so that I even used the traverse module on some ships back when it still had the reload penalty. I also use the range mod on Moskva instead of the unique module that I own, for example.

Now, NC's turrets are not that bad, but still a couple extra seconds feels just more comfortable. Since I don't expect BBs to be super accurate anyway, an extra metre here or there doesn't matter to me. It's just a personal thing.

[tocqueville8]

19 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

And some other interesting posts from my thread: 

 

I'll be honest: I'm not going to sift through all that.

 

Do we have a clear information, such as the percentage of dispersion reduction as a function of the normalized range? Is it that 16% number I read at some point (the same as the range increase?).

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

Let us NOT forget that new update will REMOVE:

• 3% concealment
• 4% dispersion

bonuses from ALL ships!

 

So... every percentage will now matter a LOT!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[stefanorgano]

13 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Let us NOT forget that new update will REMOVE:

• 3% concealment
• 4% dispersion

bonuses from ALL ships! 

That's not what I've heard. Concealment bonus will be baked into the ships, so it's not gonna be removed but actually made permanent.

Dispersion bonus from camos is not a bonus to YOUR dispersion but a malus to ENEMY dispersion. It will be removed, which means ALL ships will become more accurate, not less accurate as you are stating.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

5 hours ago, stefanorgano said:

That's not what I've heard. Concealment bonus will be baked into the ships, so it's not gonna be removed but actually made permanent.

Dispersion bonus from camos is not a bonus to YOUR dispersion but a malus to ENEMY dispersion. It will be removed, which means ALL ships will become more accurate, not less accurate as you are stating.

 

I didn't see that they will "bake in" the 3% concealment.

 

Do you have link?

 

Also I think you misunderstood me - the 4% increasee in accuracy will happen to all (and especially benefit those who already aim good) but if add to that increase from 3rd module - you can then have actual "sniper" in proper hands...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

1 minute ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

you can then have actual "sniper" in proper hands...

With probably very accurate near misses instead of some stray hits...

[Panocek]

1 hour ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Also I think you misunderstood me - the 4% increasee in accuracy will happen to all (and especially benefit those who already aim good) but if add to that increase from 3rd module - you can then have actual "sniper" in proper hands...

Or it increases odds of landing salvo into the water when your aim isn't on point.

[stefanorgano]

3 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Do you have link?

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/318

It's under "Key changes", 10th entry