DD main, coal question: Z-44, Black or Neustrashimy? Or wait for something else....?

[ZeuSueZ1337]

tl;dr

 

Coal is sort of burning in the armory and as a DD main should I get one the aforementioned DDs? Or wait?

 

Mostly I'm a dakka-dak (Gronningen/Friesland, Kita, etc.) or stealth (Yugu, Somers, Yeuyang, etc.) kind-of guy.

Running n' gunning DDs (i.e. Ragner, Smaaland, Marceau, Delny etc.) I haven't quite gotten the hang of yet.

 

Aaaaand to with that in mind: Which one would you chose?

Mostly I lean towards Neustra (I've got Z35 and Z52 with LMU) and Plenty of Pan-asian radar DDs.

 

Any input is appreciated. Pros/cons etc.

 

[CptnSamuel]

Neustra is a stealthy torp boat with very usable guns and a zombie-heal. It's an absolute cockroach when played well and will get on the other teams nerves. It turns like a brick though.

Black is also a great dd, i like the guns, the smoke/radar combo can really catch unsuspecting dd's off-guard. You do have to have some team-backup when radaring dd's early on, as the radar duration is quite short. Even with modules you will struggle to kill a dd on your own in that short duration. The sea-mines are slow, but stealthy. And they hit hard and reload fast. 

 

You can't really make a bad choice here. I dont have Z-44 myself so i cant comment on it. I personally like the Neustra best if forced to make a choice. Fits my playstyle better i guess. 

[Hirohito]

Well, they are about as different as you get.
Black is a DD killer, so if you intend to play any sort of competitive it should be a strong pick.
Neustra as well, but for totally different reasons - weak dpm, but fantastic stealth and heal can allow it to trade well still, and you actually have decent torpedoes in it as opposed to Black's.
Z-44 would probably be my last pick, I don't see the point of that boat for any competitive setting.

I'd say Neustra is by far the most solid allrounder if you just want a solid DD that can work it both randoms and competitive.

[_Lupastro_]

Same question few days ago. Then I picked Neustra. Just one game in it, defeat, but with great fun! And yes.. 4 ships sunk.

If you like the stealth ninja way Neustra is a must have...

[invicta2012]

Z-44 is a torp boat (60-70 second reload with a torp focused build) but lacks vision control - she's outspotted by many DDs in her MM spread and has no hydro. Guns are weak against today's high tier dakka DDs. OK for Randoms in a Division but not for anything competitive, I think. 

[Verblonde]

Depends a bit on what you want; if I was going to pick one, it would be either Black or Neustra:

• Black has the smoke/radar combination; the latter, especially, is very powerful when used correctly (even with the nerfed run-time; you do want the coal mod though). Good dakka, and the torps can be very nasty once you've got used to them. AA is tolerable, but nothing special. Of course, you lack a heal, which makes you comparatively vulnerable, if the opposition have their act together. I'm guessing there will be a big spike in numbers when she makes it to the Armory [sic]; whether that's a good or bad thing remains to be seen - more familiarity, but if lots of potatoes get her, she might become viewed as less of a threat?
• Neustra is mainly about the zombie heal; good enough dakka and torps combined with excellent sneakiness is a decent combination (AA isn't wholly disastrous either, with DefAA), but if the enemy fails to finish you off when they see you, your healing potion is as good as it gets for DDs (I think). She can be quite exciting to play, if you like a bit of a risk now and again - the first screw-up won't necessarily get you killed, unlike more fragile alternatives.

I suspect Black may be more fierce for a skilled player, whereas Neustra might be the pick if you fancy something more forgiving; they're both very good though.

 

As to Z-44, she's okay (especially since the buff meant you can get her sneakiness down to semi-decent levels; less than 6 km anyway), but nothing spectacular. If you have spare coal, pick her up, but only if you don't have both Black and Neustra already (and any other coal ships you need); if you want a sneaky torp truck, Yugumo is better - IMO - mainly due to being sneakier.

[OldPappy]

I would go with Neustra as well. Z44 does NOT make me shivver in me wellies when I see it on the other team. Black is a major threat, but I think it because it been played - in the past up until now - by some serious dd players. 
But you can wreak havvoc in Neustra and, as mentioned above by several players, she is very annoying to the whole enemy team. 

[OldPappy]

I would go with Neustra as well. Z44 does NOT make me shivver in me wellies when I see it on the other team. Black is a major threat, but I think it because it been played - in the past up until now - by some serious dd players. 
But you can wreak havvoc in Neustra and, as mentioned above by several players, she is very annoying to the whole enemy team. 

[tocqueville8]

Neustrashimy is a bit of a tease:

• Soviet guns? Sure, but only 4 of them
• Superheal? Awesome, but you won't exactly be repairing a lot of fire damage...
• Strong torps for a Soviet DD? Still only 10 km range at Tier 9, and with poor reload
• Lots of consumables? Great, but you need Superintendent because she has fewer charges stock (like the Grozovoi sub-line).

 

Still a powerful ship, but you'll often feel you're missing that little "something"...

 

Z-44 is a very "pure" torpedoboat: her fishes have the range and reload to oppress enemies trying to maneuver while spotted or to cap while unspotted. They don't hit hard, but hard enough to cripple DDs, and they can be fast and sneaky for low reaction time.

She's got horrid firing angles and traverse for knife-fights, but she can deal decent gun damage to larger targets thanks to the improved HE pen and high AP alpha.

The good thing about her is you'll never ask too much of her: she's a torpedoboat, no tricks no gimmicks.

 

I don't have the Black, so I'll leave it to others to comment.

[Chaoskraehe]

I don't have Black, but i really love Neus. She can fill any role. Yes she only has 2 turrets but thanks to her super heal she can stand her ground. Torps are good, stealth is very good, AA is fine for a DD.

[Hirohito]

31 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

Neustrashimy is a bit of a tease:

• Soviet guns? Sure, but only 4 of them
• Superheal? Awesome, but you won't exactly be repairing a lot of fire damage...
• Strong torps for a Soviet DD? Still only 10 km range at Tier 9, and with poor reload
• Lots of consumables? Great, but you need Superintendent because she has fewer charges stock (like the Grozovoi sub-line).

 

The heal allows you to pick (and trick) DD fights though.
Sure you dont outdpm them, but you severely outheal them and can therefore pick fights vs other DDs that the raw dpm tells you that you shouldnt.
Add in some god tier conceal and that DD can be pretty dangerous.

[tocqueville8]

8 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

The heal allows you to pick (and trick) DD fights though.

Sure you dont outdpm them, but you severely outheal them and can therefore pick fights vs other DDs that the raw dpm tells you that you shouldnt.

 

That's true, but there's also radar, subs and planes to worry about: the heal might level a 1v1 against a superior gunboat, but in the early, stand-offish phase of the game, maybe I'd prefer having 2 km more on the torps and the reload to launch them as soon as I'm in range of the other end of the cap...

 

The "cockroach DD" concept is fine, but lots of games are decided early, so one might prefer the fire/torpedo-power.

[tocqueville8]

3 hours ago, ZeuSueZ1337 said:

Z52 with LMU

 

It has to be said that the Z-44 would be a bit redundant then...

 

Then again, she earns more credits and the torps have better range, so ymmv.

[Spellfire40]

7 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

That's true, but there's also radar, subs and planes to worry about: the heal might level a 1v1 against a superior gunboat, but in the early, stand-offish phase of the game, maybe I'd prefer having 2 km more on the torps and the reload to launch them as soon as I'm in range of the other end of the cap...

 

The "cockroach DD" concept is fine, but lots of games are decided early, so one might prefer the fire/torpedo-power.

Thogh black only has slightly moving seamines are no ovensive weapon but more of an area dynal tool and Z44 has more detection range. Blacks gimic is nice but you got to be carefull since with so many railguns and ultra high dps platforms older desighns if ever spoted usally get murdered pretty fast.

[Esteb4nn]

You can also buy special commanders for coal. 

[tocqueville8]

23 minutes ago, Spellfire40 said:

Thogh black only has slightly moving seamines are no ovensive weapon but more of an area dynal tool and Z44 has more detection range. Blacks gimic is nice but you got to be carefull since with so many railguns and ultra high dps platforms older desighns if ever spoted usally get murdered pretty fast.

 

The torpedo reaction times are about the same: 7.4s for the Neustra, 7.8 for the Black, and the Z-44 in between. Obviously they get better with the speed perks, but the order is the same.

 

Anyway, they're pretty close, so I'd priviledge the ship with the best combination of torpedo range, reload and speed (which gives the enemy less time to randomly make a turn or exit the smoke, even if he didn't see the torps coming), and that belongs to the Z-44 imho.

 

I can't argue about the black. I've been doing ok in the Neustra, but I just don't like the ship very much. The Z-44 overperformed, so I'm a bit afraid of touching her now...

[albin322]

well like what has been stated neustra black or wait :) 

[Spellfire40]

13 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

The torpedo reaction times are about the same: 7.4s for the Neustra, 7.8 for the Black, and the Z-44 in between. Obviously it gets better with the speed perks, but the order is the same.

Anyway, they're pretty close, so I'd priviledge the ship with the best combination of range, reload and torpedo speed (which gives the enemy less time to randomly make a turn or exit the smoke, even if he didn't see the torps coming), and that belongs to the Z-44 imho.

The problen isnt reation time once spoted the problem is the time to get to the point thats that is  actually any factor. BBs dodge Kamikazes killer torps lanced from under 6km if they us A and D keys from time to time Black trops are acidents and fortune telling due to their speed Z44 is a bit better thogh blacks real gimic is its Radar/smoke combo anyhow not her torps. Z44s prob is that its most likely run into someones detection on her way to the lanch point.

[tocqueville8]

Just now, Spellfire40 said:

The problen isnt reation time once spoted the problem is the time to get to the point that actually any factor. BBs dodge Kamikazes killer torps lanced from under 6km if they us A and D keys from ime to time Black trops are acidents and fortune telling due to their speed Z44 is a bit better thogh blacks real gimic is its Radar/smoke combo anyhow not her torps.

 

Oh I agree 100% there.

 

My point was simply that Z-44 torps are very nasty against DDs: you can launch them early, from pretty far away, they're sneaky and still do enough dmg to cripple your counterpart.

[ZeuSueZ1337]

Useful input and perspectives. Seems the consensus is somewhat of this priority:

 

1. Neustrashimy

2. Black

3. Z44

 

Oh, and I'm only missing the MN and CCCP commander.

 

Looks like I'm gonna roll out the carpet for another CCCP boat.

[Miscommunication_dept]

Not z-44.

 

Black and Neustra are both good and strong.

[Max_Kammerer]

have all of them - for me: Neustra > Black > Z-44. In the time of introduction was Black OP ship, today  she is good - but short radar nor guns nor sea-mine toepedoes offer nothing gamebreaking (it is torpedo-crippled Fletcher). Neustra is Swiss knife torpedoboat which can decide games in the later part of battles...

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

Uh... the obvious choice: Forrest Dump!

It's the minigun version of the Groningen with tolerable ballistics. And SAP, just so you can do more damage while DCP is running or plain out melt broadside DDs. And idiotic torps, because why the heck not. You can also comfortably juke BBs shooting you at 14km, no need for smoke. And once you placed your fat [edited]in a cap, it's usually yours, unless you get outplayed.

Depth charges are also of the "when in doubt, grenade it out" variety, not that they're useful or anything, but since you have hydro, you can murder stupid submersible scum - and let's be honest, most of them are at 45% which is the only reason they haven't taken over yet.

[ZeuSueZ1337]

@Karkong_the_Impaler sorry, that wasn't listed; I've already got Forrest Sherman.

[lafeel]

Honestly of those three I have to give the nod to the Black.

 

Z-44 is, simply put, just not very good, and while Neustrashimi is better, it's largely  because of her superheal more than anything the rest of her brings to the table.