Changes to submarines (from Development blog)

[Adm_Lindemann]

Changes to submarines (from Development blog):

Changed the dispersion when launching torpedoes:

    Cachalot:
        For bow tubes - reduced from 11° to 3°;
        For stern tubes - reduced from 5° to 2°;
    Salmon:
        For bow and stern tubes - reduced from 11° to 3°;
    Balao:
        For bow tubes - reduced from 16° to 5°;
        For stern tubes - reduced from 11° to 3°
    U-69:
        For bow tubes - reduced from 11° to 3°;
        For stern tubes - reduced from 3° to 1°;
    U-190:
        For bow tubes - reduced from 11° to 3°;
        For stern tubes - reduced from 5° to 2°;
    U-2501:
        For bow tubes - reduced from 16° to 5°;
    U-4501:
        For bow tubes - reduced from 11° to 3°;
        For stern tubes - reduced from 16° to 5°;

 

From the News in the game client:

 

Doublespeech?

Changed the title - please keep it in English
~Sera

[Yedwy]

Popularity balancing 101

[Adm_Lindemann]

4 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Popularity balancing 101

Okay, let me rephrase: the devblog says that the dispersion of torps will decrease; completely the opposite understanding in the News: one might think that this dispersion will be introduced now - doublespeech.

[Andrewbassg]

17 minutes ago, Adm_Lindemann said:

Okay, let me rephrase: the devblog says that the dispersion of torps will decrease; completely the opposite understanding in the News: one might think that this dispersion will be introduced now - doublespeech.

Its just plain old maskirovka comrade.....

 

Btw "kutykurutty" we use that word too :)

[albin322]

43 minutes ago, Adm_Lindemann said:

Okay, let me rephrase: the devblog says that the dispersion of torps will decrease; completely the opposite understanding in the News: one might think that this dispersion will be introduced now - doublespeech.

fix the bloody headline.......... what is this kindergarden ? 

[Shirakami_Kon]

11 hours ago, Adm_Lindemann said:

Okay, let me rephrase: the devblog says that the dispersion of torps will decrease; completely the opposite understanding in the News: one might think that this dispersion will be introduced now - doublespeech.

They were going to add the dispersion mentioned in the dev blog. Like 2-3 days later they basically removed it again, because... well, idk. Do you really still think they know what they are doing with subs?

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

I suggest they rotate the torpedo tubes by 180°, because this appears to have become an accepted method of balancing now.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

They increase dispersion on the live server, but they decrease it again on the test server as far as I understand. But I get confused with all this submarine and supershit crap on what is the live server and what is the test server.

[lovelacebeer]

It’s so reassuring to see WG know what they are doing lurching around so wildly. 
 

Still considering this apparently is in an effort to reduce the shotgun tactic I’m surprised they don’t just increase the arming distance for the torps. 
 

 

[Capra76]

28 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

Still considering this apparently is in an effort to reduce the shotgun tactic I’m surprised they don’t just increase the arming distance for the torps.

 

Because that might actually work?

 

It seems to me that almost everything relating to subs is becoming an RNG lottery, it seems like the only way they can think of to "balance" the class.

[Yedwy]

Just now, Capra76 said:

It seems to me that almost everything relating to subs WOWS is becoming an RNG lottery, it seems like the only way they can think of to "balance" the class game.

FTFY

[Seraphice]

13 hours ago, Adm_Lindemann said:

Okay, let me rephrase: the devblog says that the dispersion of torps will decrease; completely the opposite understanding in the News: one might think that this dispersion will be introduced now - doublespeech. 

Hey!

In an earlier devbog for the PT, the dispersion was up to ~10 degrees. This turned out to be too much much, which is why it was reduced in a later devblog. In the patch notes simply the final result was listed.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Yedwy]

14 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

In an earlier devbog for the PT, the dispersion was up to ~10 degrees. This turned out to be too much much, which is why it was reduced in a later devblog. In the patch notes simply the final result was listed.

Yeees we have to get those griefers into the subs dont we? I mean otherwise the popularity mark wont be reached and marketing guys are already antsy about all the premiums waiting to be sold and staying in the limbo... 

[lovelacebeer]

51 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

Hey!

In an earlier devbog for the PT, the dispersion was up to ~10 degrees. This turned out to be too much much, which is why it was reduced in a later devblog. In the patch notes simply the final result was listed.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

Apologies for asking here, but as I understand it subs are still in testing/ development so I was wondering why submarines were going to be tested in the convoy mode? 
 

Only seeing as the data collected in that mode would be rather different to random battles it just seems an odd choice. Although I readily admit submarines on the attacking team were devastating because of course that what submarines excel at. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

9 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

Apologies for asking here, but as I understand it subs are still in testing/ development so I was wondering why submarines were going to be tested in the convoy mode? 
 

Only seeing as the data collected in that mode would be rather different to random battles it just seems an odd choice. Although I readily admit submarines on the attacking team were devastating because of course that what submarines excel at. 

'Testing' is a euphemism for releasing unfinished features in games premature and 'developing' them on live servers where the users are basically pigs with wallets. It's also part of what's referred to as 'live services' in AAA title development, you probably heared of those. It's a 'vision' on game development that's become quite popular among publishers in recent years because it overlaps (telescopes) development cost with the revenue trajectories. One of the other assumed benefits, creating better games, turned out to be an impossible goal for WG. Since it's introduction, some in the industry have acknowledged that this way of working can be quite corrosive and corruptive to games as far as production, design and quality assurance is concerned. WG is basically case in point for that. Their revenue is probably good enough, even though there are signs of struggle, but their game turned into a neuro association machine for buying stuff^TM. Game development at that point is no longer about building a great gaming experience, but revolves mainly around pushing revenue through neuro marketing mostly.

 

So basically, the subs were officially released 100% last year. In a broken state. But that's okay. It's a 'live service' to your wallet my friend. WG and CM's present it as 'testing', to disassociate it from the carrier rework live service disaster. But it's basically the exact same thing really. Enjoy.

[lovelacebeer]

35 minutes ago, Europizza said:

'Testing' is a euphemism for releasing unfinished features in games premature and 'developing' them on live servers where the users are basically pigs with wallets. It's also part of what's referred to as 'live services' in AAA title development, you probably heared of those. It's a 'vision' on game development that's become quite popular among publishers in recent years because it overlaps (telescopes) development cost and revenue trajectories. One of the other assumed benefits, creating better games, turned out to be an impossible goal for WG. Since it's introduction some in the industry have acknowledged that this way of working can be quite corrosive and corruptive to  games as far as production, design and qualityassurance is concerned. WG is basically case in point for that. Their revenue is probably good enough, even though there are signs of struggle, but their game turned into a (neuro association machine for buying stuff)^TM. Game development at that point is no longer about building a great game, but with pushing revenue through neuro marketing mostly.

 

So basically, the subs were officially released 100% last year. In a broken state. But that's okay. It's a 'live service' to your wallet my friend. WG and CM's present it as 'testing', to disassociate it from the carrier rework live service disaster. But it's basically the exact same thing really. Enjoy.

 

 

Sadly I fear this is the honest reason and they will just finally add subs to the tech tree when the premiums are also ready. 

 

I would just like to see what creative alternative truths WG can come up with to explain themselves, just a morbid curiosity on my part.

 

It’s also a shame as I actually enjoyed the previous convoy mode but with the addition of subs and trying it on the PTS it’s a whole lot less fun now.

[ghostbuster_]

2 hours ago, Seraphice said:

Hey!

In an earlier devbog for the PT, the dispersion was up to ~10 degrees. This turned out to be too much much, which is why it was reduced in a later devblog. In the patch notes simply the final result was listed.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

sometimes I wonder what WG has been testing in close test. It always feels like: 

• There is actually no close testing
• If there is an actual close test session its completely useless due to : 
  • lack of game knowladge of the people in WG who does the testing, other words, they are utter potatoes who has no idea about the game.
  • results of the testing being irrelevant because of the small sample size.
  • WG not caring

 

[WWDragon]

2 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Yeees we have to get those griefers into the subs dont we? I mean otherwise the popularity mark wont be reached and marketing guys are already antsy about all the premiums waiting to be sold and staying in the limbo... 

Oh yes because a dispersion were torpedoes cannot hit a damn thing forcing subs to use the ping mechanic is such a great idea ...

 

Serious now ... if you failed to see the problem with the large dispersion you are obviously trolling making your statement over "griefing" rather ... how can I put this ... dishonest.

[Adm_Lindemann]

6 hours ago, Seraphice said:

Hey!

In an earlier devbog for the PT, the dispersion was up to ~10 degrees. This turned out to be too much much, which is why it was reduced in a later devblog. In the patch notes simply the final result was listed.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

@Seraphice this is not an answer or excuse as my point is still valid: you are "selling" something as a nerf, while in reality, it's a huge buff - all together is a big lie.

 

Otherwise, when will you introduce this kind of dispersion to surface ships?

[Seraphice]

11 minutes ago, Adm_Lindemann said:

@Seraphice this is not an answer or excuse as my point is still valid: you are "selling" something as a nerf, while in reality, it's a huge buff - all together is a big lie.

 

Otherwise, when will you introduce this kind of dispersion to surface ships?

This is not the case.

The new submarines will still have a greater random factor when launching their torps as compared to before.
Although yes, the nerf is far less than the one that was first announced in the devblog, and later tuned down in this devblog

So in the end, we are saying that this is a nerf, because compared to their state in 0.11.4, they will be 'weaker' in the fact they will have more dispersion when launching their torpedoes.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Sunleader]

13 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

This is not the case.

The new submarines will still have a greater random factor when launching their torps as compared to before.
Although yes, the nerf is far less than the one that was first announced in the devblog, and later tuned down in this devblog

So in the end, we are saying that this is a nerf, because compared to their state in 0.11.4, they will be 'weaker' in the fact they will have more dispersion when launching their torpedoes.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

 

Well Compared to 3 Years ago they have been Implemented. But choosing a Specific Point in Time rather than the last Information available to your opposite Party is not really gonna Impress that Opposite Party.

 

And the last Info we got was that Subs are getting 10-16 Degrees Dispersion.

Now that has been changed to give them only 1-5 Degrees Dispersion.

 

Which means in our Eyes they have been Buffed.

 

 

Even tough I frankly could not care less what you call it.

Wether we call it a Buff or a Nerfed Nerf etc is entirely irrelevant really.

 

 

 

What I care for is that this Nerf is doing absolutely nothing to Fix the Problem.

1-5 Degrees does not Prevent Subs from Shotgunning DDs.

And unless they Shoot their Torps at over 10km Distance it also wont really matter towards hitting Targets in General.

 

 

[Seraphice]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

Well Compared to 3 Years ago they have been Implemented. But choosing a Specific Point in Time rather than the last Information available to your opposite Party is not really gonna Impress that Opposite Party.

 

And the last Info we got was that Subs are getting 10-16 Degrees Dispersion.

Now that has been changed to give them only 1-5 Degrees Dispersion.

 

Which means in our Eyes they have been Buffed.

 

 

Even tough I frankly could not care less what you call it.

Wether we call it a Buff or a Nerfed Nerf etc is entirely irrelevant really.

 

 

 

What I care for is that this Nerf is doing absolutely nothing to Fix the Problem.

1-5 Degrees does not Prevent Subs from Shotgunning DDs.

And unless they Shoot their Torps at over 10km Distance it also wont really matter towards hitting Targets in General.

 

 

In the patch notes it is listed what has changed on the live server from 0.11.4 to 0.11.5.

Subs having 10-16 degrees of dispersion on their torpedoes did not make it to the live server and thus is not included in the patch notes.
That change was only live briefly on Public Test, before it was changed to what it currently is, and what will be on the live server this week.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Sunleader]

11 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

In the patch notes it is listed what has changed on the live server from 0.11.4 to 0.11.5.

Subs having 10-16 degrees of dispersion on their torpedoes did not make it to the live server and thus is not included in the patch notes.
That change was only live briefly on Public Test, before it was changed to what it currently is, and what will be on the live server this week.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

 

Way to Ignore the Relevant Part.

Allow me to Return the Favor and thus consider this to be your Admissions that this is a Buff to Submarines.

[Asatori]

Just as I expected a class that is totally not working in the game with crap mechanics and for some classes basicly no effective counterplay.

Yet WG is just ignoring it and does a few tweaks here or there to balance their spreadsheet and call it done because they can't be bothered anymore.

 

Just like the carrier rework. 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

Guys, give him a break. He explained how this happened and subs still get a nerf compared to the current state.

Unfortunately nobody here agrees it's enough of a nerf, but that's an entirely different issue.