Submarines, time to cancel them?

[Dukemaster105]

Well, it's been a bad long time suffering with submarines so far. I can't come up with anything positive to say about them, I just can't. I play destroyers, cruisers, and battleships, but not carriers or submarines. I enjoy things that are a challenge and can be countered by something else. Ships that have real problems associated with them that require care, patience, experience, and forethought to counteract. When you succeed in something with limitations it's rewarding, you feel as though you've mastered something difficult. I can't say the same for submarines. So far I've had a lot of bad experiences, a lot of blah-bland experiences, and very few good experiences playing against them. Combined with the experience of playing submarines on the test server that gave me a real nasty taste for what they're capable of, even in the face of a determined and skilled opponent (granted the test server is a highly artificial environment).

 

I don't think or believe that submarines can be balanced in a way that will make everyone happy with them, or at least content with them. I really don't think the developers can do it. So far every nerf they've thrown their way hasn't gone far enough, and the basic mechanics of submarines functionality seems to nullify any kind of sensible and rational counters, regardless of other factors.

 

Thus, I now request that submarines be canceled. The time and effort put into them could've been far better spent on improving other aspects of the game that are in dire need of it, or at least that could expedite the additions and growth of the game in general. At best they'll be an intensely hated cludge of a ship class, at worst they'll hurt the game to an extent that nobody will like.

[Dutchy_2019]

But submarines will NEVER get cancelled for a couple of reasons:

 

• Ego's involved on the side of the Dev-team (I will not say all, but definitely some - is my feeling).
• Sunk cost fallacy.
• Investors putting on pressure.
• Stats being massively warped (in favour of keeping them in the game / them being not too strong or fitting in the game) because of submarine performance numbers being dragged down by bad players playing them, and many good players refusing to play them (no challenge / bad for the game / boring), and 'enjoyment of the playerbase' in the game not being adequately measured.

[SV_Kompresor]

A toast to better times.

 

Spoiler

 

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

It's like asking a dictator who has ruined his country to step down.

It won't happen.

[Nibenay78]

There will be no submarines in the game.

 

Does he still work for Liargaming?

[lovelacebeer]

Considering how WG clearly after years of trying don’t have a clue how to balance or even a clear vision of what subs should be good at vs being countered by, any reasonable person would either scrap them or just make a specific mode for submarines. 
 

However WG are stubborn in the extreme and unless there was a massive drop in people playing in random battles they will desperately keep trying to force them into the game. 

[Verblonde]

For all the good it will do, I voted 'yes' to both questions, although I should emphasise that I'm referring to submarines in their current general implementation. I still believe that submarines could be a valuable addition to the game, just not in the form that WG have been trying to jam down our throats for the last several months (are we up to a year of these damn things yet?)...

 

As others have said, for a variety of reasons, the project will not be canned though - even though it clearly should.

 

Were it me, I'd can everything except the creative work, and try and find some game designers who can come up with a good idea of how to introduce submarines to the game without merely producing something that almost everyone (apparently) hates. In their own mode, possibly.

[Yedwy]

Time was ripe for that looong ago but they wont...

[Logan_MountStuart]

No chance they are binned, in fact they will soon be released fully, premiums will be made available and new tech trees will be made available to obtain through early access by spending more money.

[JohnMac79]

I used to believe subs could work in a specific game mode/environment.

 

Now i dont believe they can ever be introduced in any game mode without being horrendous to play, or play against.

 

Balance is not possible. WG will spend forever endlessly buffing and nerfing everything else to try and shoehorn a square peg into a round hole.

 

Just like CV... only somehow possibly even worse...

[Itwastuesday]

Of course they shouldn't be added. A class that's designed to be unkillable, stealthy and that oneshots people. The only reason you would add that to the game would be if you want people to stop playing.

[BoxOfAngryBees]

3 hours ago, SV_Kompresor said:

A toast to better times.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

that, my good sir, is a hotshot - if i am not mistaken
if it is - wheres the coffee bean :D

 

but yes - subs fit just as well in this game as carriers do (in their current form ... or in any form previous, quite frankly)

 

I understand ships are hard to extrapolate and keep interesting with mechanics and what not .... but cmon, this is redicliss

[SV_Kompresor]

3 minutes ago, BoxOfAngryBees said:

that, my good sir, is a hotshot - if i am not mistaken
if it is - wheres the coffee bean :D 

B52 actually

[BoxOfAngryBees]

3 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

B52 actually

ah ok - dont know that one

 

we have hotshots - double espresso with caramel and cream with a coffee bean on top

if your not a caffeine addict, a few of them will pick you right up for the next few hours - always good for when a lull in the action rears its ugly head

[Shirakami_Kon]

They'd need to be able to feel shame about how incompetent they are in introducing submarines and their repeated fail after fail in doing so ignoring everything the entire playerbase tells them (even ideas of how to implement them better than theirs).

 

We'll all die of old before the egos in the "developer" department (or as I'm more likely to believe something above them hellbent in forcing them to not stop until they are able to fit them in the game, no matter if they can't possibly find the way, because it's impossible) are able to bend and admit reality.

[Yedwy]

6 hours ago, SV_Kompresor said:

B52 actually

Damn didnt have one of those things in ages

[RenamedUser_92906789]

[Migantium_Mashum]

Oh look @YabbaCoe another Poll that WG will claim shows Subs are wanted in game...

 

I posted last week on the WG Twitch stream that Subs are a bad idea... the WG puppet presenters claimed the opposite (Surprise-Surprise)...

 

If WG wants to test these dumb ideas why don't WG create a 'Dumb Idea' game mode and see how many players play it... 

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

26 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

Oh look @YabbaCoe another Poll that WG will claim shows Subs are wanted in game...

 

I posted last week on the WG Twitch stream that Subs are a bad idea... the WG puppet presenters claimed the opposite (Surprise-Surprise)...

 

If WG wants to test these dumb ideas why don't WG create a 'Dumb Idea' game mode and see how many players play it... 

Don't waste your time. WG will rather destroy and shut down the game entirely before admitting that they were mistaken. It's a mindset I cannot understand, but it's their problem, not mine.

[Panocek]

Given U-4501 as a premium was hinted in 2020? 2019? NOT getting subs never was an option.

[ghostbuster_]

wait a minute. you guys forget that we are the "loud minority" who thinks that subs dont fit into the game. there is a silent majority who wants subs soo badly. They are so silent, they dont know that they are the silent majority. Silence is so strong in them, they dont even know, about what they are the majority. They care so much for the game and they are much more dedicated than us in the game, but because of the silence we get the delusion that they dont have any idea about the game and that they dont care. 

Its the silence man, the power of silence. 

[747BeerDrop]

All the forum whiners in one thread.

[Lance_Horne]

I dont see why there is all this whining about subs, they are so easy to kill. 

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

36 minutes ago, 747BeerDrop said:

All the forum whiners in one thread.

And you chose to make your appearance here to support your own theory? Is it a personal challenge to get as many alt accounts forum banned as possible?

[El2aZeR]

WG literally confirmed here

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/158054-new-sub-buff-on-the-horizon/?tab=comments#comment-4091594

 

that they're too deep in sunk cost fallacy. They don't even bother hiding it anymore.