Submarine Survey 2.0 - The questions that really matter

[Siagor]

Just report the propaganda troll and it'll be over soon.

 

Sanctions man, sanctions 

[Nibenay78]

3 minutes ago, Siagor said:

Just report the propaganda troll and it'll be over soon.

 

Sanctions man, sanction 

Yes his own magic forum statements make it fairly clear what kind of person it is.

[Fastmotion]

1 hour ago, Nibenay78 said:

We already agreed that you are a manipulating liar. Your statements are misleading no matter how you interpret them.

So, you failed to prove your and his statements.

His statement with the number 150 didn't stay valid and your statement that i can't prove something also became invalid.

And you failed to reply to my simple counter-questions as your hive usually do. I answer to almost everything o nthe other hand.

 

I repeat that it is totally expected that your next steps are to say that your opponent is mad, andfinally block him. But you can never provide any proofs to your hive's beliefs.

 

I suggest that go read again that statement with the number 150. And don't feel suffer if your hives believes are debunked sometimes. It is normal that we all make mistakes sometimes.

[Nibenay78]

 

35 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

I suggest that go read again that statement with the number 150. And don't feel suffer if your hives believes are debunked sometimes. It is normal that we all make mistakes sometimes.

I do not see anything useful being said from your statements other than irrelevant and irrational things. Don't feel bad if you thought it was useful and smart. It is normal that we all think we are awesome at times, but are really not.

[nlegolass]

Il y a 36 minutes, Fastmotion a dit :

So, you failed to prove your and his statements.

His statement with the number 150 didn't stay valid and your statement that i can't prove something also became invalid.

And you failed to reply to my simple counter-questions as your hive usually do. I answer to almost everything o nthe other hand.

 

I repeat that it is totally expected that your next steps are to say that your opponent is mad, andfinally block him. But you can never provide any proofs to your hive's beliefs.

 

I suggest that go read again that statement with the number 150. And don't feel suffer if your hives believes are debunked sometimes. It is normal that we all make mistakes sometimes.

 

Damn, 319 messages of this. 

What it feels like :

 

[Nibenay78]

24 minutes ago, nlegolass said:

 

Damn, 319 messages of this. 

What it feels like :

 

It's not ALL bad. I got to know @Fastmotion and his world views. I can only look forward to meeting him in battle and completely annihilate him.

Which honestly shouldn't be that difficult for an average player like me. Even better if I can do it in a "gambling ship" like Annapolis. You know the kind of ship that NEEDs a destroyer...

[Fastmotion]

3 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

It's not ALL bad. I got to know @Fastmotion and his world views. I can only look forward to meeting him in battle and completely annihilate him.

Which honestly shouldn't be that difficult for an average player like me. Even better if I can do it in a "gambling ship" like Annapolis. You know the kind of ship that NEEDs a destroyer...

We can plan some contests/exams in the gold league in the future. But i hope that you don't take such battle events as an adequate method to prove your hives defeated arguments.

[ghostbuster_]

55 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

It's not ALL bad. I got to know @Fastmotion and his world views. 

Poor you. You probably lost some brain cells during the process.

 

Btw. Was that before or after he defeated himself with his own arguments and proofs in a discussion with himself on his own super fair very crowded forum? (Forum population of 1) 

[Nibenay78]

4 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Poor you. You probably lost some brain cells during the process.

 

I think several did.

[lup3s]

12 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Poor you. You probably lost some brain cells during the process.

 

Btw. Was that before or after he defeated himself with his own arguments and proofs in a discussion with himself on his own super fair very crowded forum? (Forum population of 1) 

 

I visited a doctor today because i have this sudden headache since a couple of days.

[Nibenay78]

@Fastmotion

 

See how destructive subs are? Because they are so important the other team lost when a noob plays them.

 

 

 

[Fastmotion]

4 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

@Fastmotion

 

See how destructive subs are? Because they are so important the other team lost when a noob plays them.

 

 

 

That image proves that Subs are most of the times harmless.

Don't you agree? The same is with CVs.

We can analyze replays and compare them with the arguments.

I suggest we do as we started in the other thread that 2 persons posted 5 battles and we analyzed how often Subs appear and so on.

[Nibenay78]

Just now, Fastmotion said:

That image proves that Subs are most of the times harmless.

Don't you agree? The same is with CVs.

No it shows they are so important that the team with the worst sub loses badly. A single ship decides the outcome! Horrible! Outrageous!

 

Did you notice the amazing superships though? Especially on my team?

[Fastmotion]

7 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

No it shows they are so important that the team with the worst sub loses badly. A single ship decides the outcome! Horrible! Outrageous!

 

Did you notice the amazing superships though? Especially on my team?

We disagree with opinions about that battle. I think we can make a different topic and analyze many replays there.

Additionally you mention T11 ships. For that i say that most of your hive believes that T11 ships are overpowered but they still use it which proves that they support hipocritically overp owered ships. You don't have to agree with that opinion either. But i don't see any point of starting a debate here again. Make a separate thread about replays and arguments and i can come and win again there. Because it is so obvious for me that you have a wrong opinion there. It will bea short proof and victory like in todays others argumentations.

[Nibenay78]

Just now, Fastmotion said:

We disagree with opinions about that battle.

Clearly your opinion is the wrong one 

[SolanumTuberosumRex]

4 hours ago, Fastmotion said:

We already went though many ways with that Average term. You provided sufficent examples like 0-300 and i provided others. I proved that his statement is still wrong no matter how you interpret his term.

You don't understand what 'prove' means. You think it means that if you say something, you've now proved that thing (just by saying it), and also that this mechanism only applies to you. It strongly correlates with the fact that in your perception no one else is able to prove anything. That makes total sense because it wasn't said by you, and so it can't be true or proven.

Only you can do that. And all YOU have to do to prove anything at all is just to claim it. 👍

[SolanumTuberosumRex]

1 hour ago, Fastmotion said:

That image proves that Subs are most of the times harmless.

It wasn't harmless to its own team, you 

Every ship is harmless to the enemy when it's driven by an ape. You show again that you don't know what 'prove' means.

[Fastmotion]

14 minutes ago, PsychoClownfish said:

It wasn't harmless to its own team, you 

Every ship is harmless to the enemy when it's driven by an ape. You show again that you don't know what 'prove' means.

Subs and other ships end up in position 15 in the results often. They are harmless to enemies but also their own team doesn't get mush affected about their 0 input. Sometimes the enemy team has a AFK BB and becomes 15th as well as in your picture. That makes irrelevant if a Sub placed 15 or 7.

You repeat a well known defeated argument about player skills. Let's not repeat things and say that in your picture Subs didnt have rare extreme player skills. They were typical Sub players.

At the end you assume that i don't know what the term Prove means. But i have proven opposite things about terms quite often in this forum.

I don't understand what your cloud image proves in your text. does it prove that your hive lost again a debate or maybe that stats matter?

[Tanaka_15]

5 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

Subs and other ships end up in position 15 in the results often. They are harmless to enemies but also their own team doesn't get mush affected about their 0 input. Sometimes the enemy team has a AFK BB and becomes 15th as well as in your picture. That makes irrelevant if a Sub placed 15 or 7.

You repeat a well known defeated argument about player skills. Let's not repeat things and say that in your picture Subs didnt have rare extreme player skills. They were typical Sub players.

At the end you assume that i don't know what the term Prove means. But i have proven opposite things about terms quite often in this forum.

I don't understand what your cloud image proves in your text. does it prove that your hive lost again a debate or maybe that stats matter?

[noPro_Boy]

Submarines must be removed from the random house, or let them create a separate mode with submarines and let everyone play there! 
The past gameplay was very interesting and completely broken with the introduction of submarines in random, it remains to play only in ranks and clan battles.
 If the Developers put submarines in there too, then unfortunately I will have to say goodbye to my favorite game...

[nerderklaus]

Edit

[Fastmotion]

7 minutes ago, nerderklaus said:

This statement is a hoax!

 

Even when the player does nothing, the presence of the ship still effects the decision making. With subs it is even worse, because they are stealthier, they can burst harder and they are better at sticking to a target (no delay of new squadrons arriving*). A comparison would be kiting away from a DD and having good chances to dodge the torps compared to submarines homing and having an easier time to disengage with a couple of other advantages, including the combination of better stealth AND better survivability which makes the current subs potencially the most broken thing released by WG yet.

 

Shima is popular with bad players (before superships they were most common in that tier). Why is this? With the wall of skill they have chances of doing something similar to the lucky punch in boxing. In other words a way for everybody to be able to rack of some points. The submarines seem to be designed to have the same misdesign, but much, much worse.

 

*Side note: This is one of the parts that makes super CV as absurd as they are with some of their squadrons arriving extremely fast

Your explanations prove that XP and stats are irrelevant.

You say that a ship on the last position in the results still effects the battle. Yes, true, but the amount of the effect is usually almost zero in such cases. I think the English word magnitude/importance suits here. People sometimes try to prove their believes by taking a rare counter-example that either occures so rarely or impacts the big picture in so low amount. For example, they may get atatched to the idea that "water is poisones because there are cases when people died after drinking 9 liters of water". The real explanation is that people actually want to just be right and then they provide such low magnitude arguments. I believe that in our example the Subs were harmless and they didn't impact much anything.

In my opinion most times subs are harmless and i have explained. If you want to go to details then yes Subs have some impact to the game just like other ships. so, you can say that all ships are little bit harmful.

 

We can all watch the replay of the battle with that earlier picture and let's see with our own eyes how harmful Subs were.

 

 

[OldPappy]

On 5/10/2022 at 11:59 AM, WildWind84 said:

There is 1 posibbility for sub, but then they should be drastically changed. This should be done like I see:

1. remove homing torps against surface ships, but they should stay against other sub

2. give sub half HP of average HP dd in their tier

3. spotting: limited to range of their torps or +1 or 2 km

4. give them normal torps, but with dmg like Italian cruiser's torps and range of average dd in their tier

5. hydro should be able to detect sub on any depth and radar should be able to detect subs on surface and periscope depth, radiolocation of surface ships should also work, at least against subs on periscope depth and surface 

6. pinging removes (reason: removing homing torps)

7. ALL surface ships gave ASW or depth chargers (I cannot speak here about CV's because I don't play them)

8. ALL BBS should have ASW +2 km of sub's torps range; cruisers should have ASW in range of sub's torps (that all should depending of their tier)

9. oil spoil on surface should stay

10. all surface ships in tiers 5/7/9 should got ASW of tier 6/8/10

11. concealment of subs - dd have smoke, but limited and subs have sea (water), so subs basic concealment should be -1 and half km of range of their torps

12. MM not more than 2 subs per team and 4 dds in late hours, and in active hours 2-3 dds and 1 sub.

 

That is some of maybe ideas. 

 

EDIT: Reload of sub's torps should be very much longer

 

 

 

 

I agree with this. Nice list. 
I dont actually mind subs as such, but these with homing torps and being almost impossible to sink are not good for the game. 

[KurtVonSteiger]

two factual observations for you:    over the past six years many of us (who still remain) have seen the game devolve from a decent historical naval game into a arcade shooter with fantasy elements and secondly having shifted to mainly playing Co-op I have observed a very marked influx of players also switching to co- op mode to avoid submarines and to a lesser extent CV's  

originally co - op games you were lucky to see another human player - now it is quite common to see more humans than bots on your team.

 

Also bear in mind when you are rubbishing some players posts, a lot of those posting like myself have been playing this game for a lot longer than you 

[Nibenay78]

1 hour ago, KurtVonSteiger said:

 over the past six years many of us (who still remain) have seen the game devolve from a decent historical naval game into a arcade shooter with fantasy elements a

Once WoWs had a certain popularity, they had 2 options to keep it going.

 

* Continue on the more "historical path" and make a game that long term players will keep using money on.

* Use the current popularity to create a more fantasy game, flooding it with content, boxes, FOMO early access ships and more flashy bits. As long as a new player spends a bit, it doesn't matter how long he actually stays. He or she will also see older and decent players sail around in premiums and kick arse (relatively to a new player) and waste money on pay2Lose high tier ships...