Submarine Survey 2.0 - The questions that really matter

[invicta2012]

11 minutes ago, Von_Pruss said:

CVs are also developed, bought and played. So will be subs, especially unique ones like U-69 or I-400 with planes or subs with other gimmicks. WG can decide what the meta is, so if they push subs, they will also be considered in CWs in future etc. At some point, you will "need" to have them to stay competitive. And others will play them just to grief, even if they hate this class.

I play CVs, I buy CVs. I haven't tested subs for several iterations as they are just boring to play. There are few notable possibilities for premiums and the game play I have seen is one-dimensional and offers few options for variations in the way that CVs have been developed. Are there any ways in Submarines can be made as diverse in playstyles as Ark Royal, Bearn, Loewenhardt, Ryujio and Ranger are as Tier VI CVs? How do they fit in Operations (which is where I have a lot of fun with those CVs I mentioned). I just don't see how this class can be made interesting when the developers are struggling so hard to even make it functional. 

[SirAmra]

On 5/10/2022 at 2:26 PM, MadBadDave said:

Sorry, but another pointless post, WG like the Russian state will plod on with its anal decisions, you could slap every high ranking person within WG with a giant wet kipper and say NO SUBS, and they’d still give us subs,  it took them over a year to finally sort cvs out and there’s still many that say they ain’t balanced and fit for the game, we all said subs would be a total cluster f..k,  and here we are.  Anyone care to bet with me that the same discussion will be going strong next year. 

Finally sort CVs out?

They "gave" up. Players stopped speching AA on the ships cause it was useless.

I've played WG games since 2011, and one thing you can be damn sure they are good at, and that is not getting stuff balanced.

They either nerfhammer stuff to shait or overbuff stuff.

They have been working on subs for the better part of 2 years now.

CVs have been a mess since implementation in closed alpha.

I actually miss the old RTS system there, cause it made less players play them. We had CV free games, for most of the games.

[Capra76]

58 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

And they will not be popular, and they will make the game and the community more toxic and unhappy.  The levels of bullet headness, obtuseness and clumsiness on display from WG here are quite remarkable. 

 

It strikes me that WG have got the development process completely backwards, they've spent vast amounts of time and money before they've worked out if there's a viable game there, and if so what it should be, so now they're stuck with something that they know doesn't work, but they have to introduce it anyway to justify all the effort put into it.

 

It's a total disaster.

[JohnMac79]

These are definitely the players we want testing subs on the LIVE SERVER... 119 games total (and a couple of dozen coop) sailing around in T10 subs:

 

 

 

 

What has happened to this game, why are you doing this WG?

 

 

[Siagor]

9 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

What has happened to this game, why are you doing this WG?

 

 

Because RU griefers wanted this.

[Nibenay78]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:01 PM, ReDiR20 said:

Very easy, all answers are "no". Can't wait for subs to be included in tech trees

Can't wait to kill and report every sub I meet!

[Bubba_S]

1 hour ago, JohnMac79 said:

These are definitely the players we want testing subs on the LIVE SERVER... 119 games total (and a couple of dozen coop) sailing around in T10 subs:

 

 

 

 

What has happened to this game, why are you doing this WG?

 

 

I don’t understand it either. It’s a slap to the face of all normal progression and all who actually like subs and like to play them, but see their reputation totally dragged in the trash by these nubs

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

8 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

Are there any ways in Submarines can be made as diverse in playstyles as Ark Royal, Bearn, Loewenhardt, Ryujio and Ranger are as Tier VI CVs?

There are plenty of different gimmick options and of course it is totally up to you if you like subs or not. But there are and will be sub players, even if they only want to grief. I am sure WG has many interesting concepts up their sleeves, special forms of torpedos (e.g. circling ones being able to hit other ships than the originally targeted and missed one), sub-carriers like the I-400 like I said. And there are plenty of equipment options available. I could fill several pages with uniqe concepts and ideas for subs. So will WG.

[BigtprimE]

On 5/10/2022 at 8:01 PM, BlackYeti said:

I think subs CAN be implemented in a balanced, though boring way. By removing pings and guided torps for starters. Then tweaks to visibility, oxygen and oxygen regen...

I think you don't know much about submarines in their current form.

The most dangerous torp are those launched without any pings.

 

ping warn you about the submarine presence and the homing torps are the easiest to dodge. They come in a way as such you can turn in circle and automatically dodge them.

When a sneaky subs come silentely, it's usually too late to try to dodge anything.

 

[matia251]

So they finally managed to destroy the competing nature of the game, now wherever subs are in a match especially at higher tiers, you usually see a blob of frightened T10s at the spawn points waiting for the sub to sink them slowly while the rest of the enemy fleet constantly shoots from distance. This is insulting to human intelligence, insulting to the point it makes me not only to NEVER EVER give ANY MONEY to this company, but convice EACH AND EVERYONE i know of ingame to do the same. Its preposterous and unethical of them to MANIPULATE US into using our PERSONAL TIME for beta testing sumbarines while taking away the ONLY REASON WE ACTUALLY PLAY THIS GAME, F U N....at some point there has to be a legal punishment for this kind of behaviour...

[JohnMac79]

Last 2 games in a row, sub sails in a straight line through the middle, spots me and i get deleted within the first 5 minutes.

 

Super epic fun.

[matia251]

Having subs implemented they way it is now Is the definition of stupidity, leaving them as it is on live server is INSULTING TO EACH AND EVERYONE who dedicates a few hours of his life to have fun but instead gets HUMILIATED, loses precious FUN time by engaging with a total BULL$HIT version of the game as there is no actual engagement but rather constant anxiety, GRIEFING over time lost, creating TOXICITY for something we actually loved and enjoyed...you have done it with CVs, you KEEP doing it despite the complaints and now you are doing it again with subs..and you expect to get paid for you brilliant ideas...keep up the good work "scientists"...disgust is the only feeling i get by engaging with the game lately..good job.

[KratosTheUnforgiving]

Honestly doesn't matter what we say, WG will just ignore us, as they don't give a sh!t so long as the game remains profitable and hits management targets.

It's another CV/AA scenario, always broken, they have no clue how to balance and will just drop any pretence of working on it for the next stupid money making idea.

Perfect example of one of the WG mouthpieces in the streams saying use the ping track to locate, yeh and that's proven to be almost impossible due to the bad coding not showing any accuracy and fob off answer, like most they answer on stream.

[matia251]

7 minutes ago, Paranoid_Potato said:

Honestly doesn't matter what we say, WG will just ignore us,

 

Well you can always DO something about it and not just complain which is futile with the "scientists" behind WG dev and management team. I for once stopped paying anything for the game and am inclined to convince everyone in my clans and other clans i know to stop giving money. It seems its the only language they understand..so many experienced people's opinions, various CCs also, got overrided because a stubborn developer or a suit wanted to sit behind a STUPID idea...they are based on the fact that this is a hobby and noone who had invested so much time and maybe money will leave it so easily, but they are exploiting this in the worst way possible...legal punishment will make its appearance and not long after the repercusions cannot be turned back...all this because of a few stubborn heads...so classic...

[JohnMac79]

 

World of Warships in 2022:

 

[guy_incognito79]

This crap is why I only play Ops now, randoms are just a waste of time...

[orthi]

32 minutes ago, guy_incognito79 said:

This crap is why I only play Ops now, randoms are just a waste of time...

I just stopped playing alltogether. I check back every half year to see that subs are still there and am on on my merry way. Hurts with the money I did spent on the game, but I guess I got my fun out of it. Now that WG decided to stay the course they can keep their stuff. I really loved the game for blowing up boates. With big guns. And submarines in fleet battles is like onions in your cheesecake just to have one more ingredient. No matter if it makes sense or not. I am sure I am one of the vocal minority and people will flock in droves to the game because of this move, but it is not for me and I was one of the people who actually paid. So if it works more power to them, I do not look back.

[BlackYeti]

12 hours ago, BigtprimE said:

I think you don't know much about submarines in their current form.

The most dangerous torp are those launched without any pings.

 

ping warn you about the submarine presence and the homing torps are the easiest to dodge. They come in a way as such you can turn in circle and automatically dodge them.

When a sneaky subs come silentely, it's usually too late to try to dodge anything.

 

But for unguided torps you can employ the same strategies as with unspotted DDs, just change course and speed every time you're spotted and you're relatively safe, maybe eating single torps every now and then.

[ziratulbihac]

I am a new player coming from WoT

 

I must say, that submarines are annoying because it is very difficult to deal with something that is practically invisible 

 

However, I must say, that idea is great and it needs to be worked on

 

1. More options for ships to detect and deal with subs

2. More power / less survivability to the subs

 

Subs must be powerful yet easy to deal with, you can't have both... 

[SolanumTuberosumRex]

18 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

These are definitely the players we want testing subs on the LIVE SERVER... 119 games total (and a couple of dozen coop) sailing around in T10 subs:

 

 

 

 

What has happened to this game, why are you doing this WG?

 

 

Seems fair. 🤮

[Procrastes]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:49 PM, lovelacebeer said:

I have to say I’m honestly impressed that 30% ( at time of writing) of respondents believe WG are capable of implementing submarines as a positive addition to the game.  

I would like to clarify, Sir, that I voted to say that I believe "submarines can be implemented in a way that doesn't make the game worse than it would be without submarines" (my italics). I must allow for the theoretical possibility of such an occurrence coming to pass somewhere, at some time, in the multiverse.

 

I was not asked to give my opinion on whether Wargaming would be capable of implementing  submarines in a way that would not degrade the game. My answer to that question would at present be a simple "no", since they have shown themselves consistently unwilling or unable to adopt, to any meaningful degree, any of the vast amount of good advice on how to make subs fit into the game, that has been provided for them by players of far more merit and experience than myself.

 

If Wargaming were to change their dead-end approach to developer/player communication and start listening to the people that actually play their game, I might consider re-evaluating my opinion of them (and on this matter). I have not yet given up all hope for the future of the World of Warships.

[Mrs_Ragdoll]

Depth charges will be buffed I've read, but besides that I really think it shouldn't be possible to sneak up behind enemy lines staying invisible for 5 min, to then fire all 6 torps at once from 2 km from any enemy (shotgun style).
I've sunk that way in my cruisers from full HP to 0 without even having the chance to see and know there was a sub nearby and send a depth charge attack, because I was already dead before I could do that.
WG should remove the ability to fire all 6 torps at once with only a 10 ms mouse click delay, like launching 3 max, then another 3 half a minute later for example. Maybe the option--> to fire them one by one (with a max of 3), or 2 at same time (bundle), or 3 at same time (bundle), like UK DDs can do, but then like I said max 3 and not all 6. This would make them less OP from any distance, but especially very close where all torps almost always hits.

[lovelacebeer]

1 hour ago, Procrastes said:

I would like to clarify, Sir, that I voted to say that I believe "submarines can be implemented in a way that doesn't make the game worse than it would be without submarines" (my italics). I must allow for the theoretical possibility of such an occurrence coming to pass somewhere, at some time, in the multiverse.

 

I was not asked to give my opinion on whether Wargaming would be capable of implementing  submarines in a way that would not degrade the game. My answer to that question would at present be a simple "no", since they have shown themselves consistently unwilling or unable to adopt, to any meaningful degree, any of the vast amount of good advice on how to make subs fit into the game, that has been provided for them by players of far more merit and experience than myself.

 

If Wargaming were to change their dead-end approach to developer/player communication, and start listening to the people that actually play their game, I might consider re-evaluating my opinion on them (and on this matter). I have not yet given up all hope for the future of the World of Warships.

Fair point with how the OP has worded the question it is quite possible to view that under the infinite universe theory. I’m just being boring and working on the fact WG/ Lesta studios are the guys implementing subs so based my judgement on them. 
 

Otherwise totally agree with everything you said.

[NewHorizons_1]

On 5/10/2022 at 11:16 AM, Siagor said:

The Sub problem can be solved easily if WG implement this new option in Report

There's one major flaw in that design though:

 

[Siagor]

3 hours ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

There's one major flaw in that design though:

 

Can't see the pic.