Remove Submarines

[Cammo1962]

5 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

Looks like you say that Subs don't fit into the game. They fit and should be part of the game because i nthe reality in real world Subs exist. Also in the game they exist and other people here say that they are harmless if you read them here. If anybody can prove one day that they are too strong then there is no need to remove them but only to make them weaker. For example if at the moment a sub's torp makes ca 2'000 damage to a 100'000 HP BB and it is proved to be too big number then it is wise to lower the damage from 2000 to 1700 for example.

And you dont seem to grasp irony 

[tadaMonika]

I think that guy is actually hired by WeeGee to demoralize people with his psychological warfare tactics. His posts are meticulously designed to program your last remaining braincells into an organized mass cell-death, resulting in irrational decision-making, such as spending money on this game.

Another glorious victory for the genius PR department!

 

No really, I couldn't stand reading more than 4 or 5 lines of his incomprehensible gibberish. I could physically feel my IQ dropping a few points lmao

[NewHorizons_1]

10 minutes ago, Cammo1962 said:

And you dont seem to grasp irony 

Nor did he grasp my plainly worded statement and tried to claim it meant something it didn't just because it offered an alternative explanation to his conclusion

[Shirakami_Kon]

10 minutes ago, tadaMonika said:

I think that guy is actually hired by WeeGee to demoralize people with his psychological warfare tactics. His posts are meticulously designed to program your last remaining braincells into an organized mass cell-death, resulting in irrational decision-making, such as spending money on this game.

Another glorious victory for the genius PR department!

 

No really, I couldn't stand reading more than 4 or 5 lines of his incomprehensible gibberish. I could physically feel my IQ dropping a few points lmao

I mean, there's a suspicious lack of action from the mods to stop this nonsense after all. 

 

Coincidence? I think not!

[Fastmotion]

43 minutes ago, JeanLouisII said:

@Fastmotion

 

so i have to ask you why all the best clans in this game only have players with over 60-65% winrate in there clans?????????

why dont they have players with 40% in there clan?????55 

You ask offtopics that are irrelevant about this topic and i explained why i don't want to talk about much i nthis forum but my own foru mthat follows humanity.

 

The very short answer to you is that clans have different rules and believes. My clan for example prohibits reporting, prohibits colored lists, prohibits hate talk, and we hire almost random people who just give their word that they follow our rules. We don't require anything else from them, no obligations. Other clans hire by other rules and have other rules. I believe most clans and most players repeat popular slogans al ltogether like is the tile of this topic and like is the hate speak in this topic and so on. So, go ask them why they hire as they hire and why they are liek they are. My opinion is that they have adopted blindly popular behaviours from others. Most hirering topics mention stats, so they hire by stats. Most job ads mention diplomas and so most companies higher people with as higher education as possible. Only minority of companies don't care about the diplomas and take talents in and grow them to gurus. So, clans hirering is a kind of brainwashed behaviour. The real exam of the skills is to do 5 battles together and see how the person really plays and forget his historical stats.

 

Your real question seems to be that why not to believe in stats if good players today have good historical stats. Well, the first answer is that have good players been good from the very beginning or they were bad initially? The answer is that they were bad like all are initially and their stats and knowledge were bad. So, in the history there was a day when they become good but their stats stil lshowed that they are bad. In that case their stats are wrong about the reality, right? The stats show that they are bad but they have just got all the skills yesterday and they are good now. So, this example shows that stats are not related to the reality. There are many examples. For example if the account is shared with a brother then the stats again don't show any reality. If the main stats were made in the history where the game software was different and playing easier and without new functionality then again the stats have nothing to say about the now. Many people perform well when they play at hours when internet speed is good and on other hours they perform badly with a laptop. Many depend on distractions and other factors. Because i take the game mentally healthy way as any entertainment then i enjoy everything else too than winning. For example it is interesting to see i nthe Ranked golden league how funny are DDs when you just follow them by doing a "pair DDs tactics"- they start to talk funnily and try to escape you and have brainwashed belief that all DDs must always go separately to a separte cap circle. Well, that is one entertaining thing to do of many and it doesn't make any good stats and that again proves that stats have nothing to sayabout skills of golden members. This topic about stats is long and i suggest to talk it separately in my personal forum.

 

Very often golden members come to me after a battle and complain that why i followed them or didnt go cap as they asked or whatever and typically they loose all the arguments then and then start to compare their stats to mine. They have 65% of historical rating and i have 40%. I say to them that why your 65% of historical Wows stats and good Highschool grades don't make you rank 1 in the golden league and you stay on the same rank level 9-2 like me. For that question they have nothing accountable to answer. I just suggest them then like this: maybe your historical highschool grades and Wows stats don't actually matter and are useless? Because the reality shows that they have the same golden rank than me today, not a better one, so the historical stats must be misleading people.

 

In my opinion stats are useless and it is mentally sick to compare stats in entertainment like billiards in pubs and in computer games. Therefore if one really wants to compare skills then make 5 battles tohether i nthe golden league with all ship types like a challenge. And then compare the result and comment the battles together and do argumentation. That shows more adequately what skills one has now in the entertainment. But some kind of stats fro mthe highschool or computer games don't show any such skills.

 

8 minutes ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

I mean, there's a suspicious lack of action from the mods to stop this nonsense after all. 

 

Coincidence? I think not!

 

See, i told in this forum it is not possible to talk. Why then you keep giving me questions al lthe time if you know that it is not allowed here?

 

11 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Nor did he grasp my plainly worded statement and tried to claim it meant something it didn't just because it offered an alternative explanation to his conclusion

 

Why do you think that i didn't got some details and why do you think that details matter? Very often people try to find a grammar mistake in the opponents text and say that he won the argumentation because the opponent made a mistake in an irrelevant detail.

 

20 minutes ago, tadaMonika said:

I think that guy is actually hired by WeeGee to demoralize people with his psychological warfare tactics. His posts are meticulously designed to program your last remaining braincells into an organized mass cell-death, resulting in irrational decision-making, such as spending money on this game.

Another glorious victory for the genius PR department!

 

No really, I couldn't stand reading more than 4 or 5 lines of his incomprehensible gibberish. I could physically feel my IQ dropping a few points lmao

 

You say that you think that i am hired by someone but you can't prove your offtopical opinion. Well, why don't you ask from me if i am hired or not, or provide a proof.

I have given clear answers to everyone here and proved my strong arguments. I didn't use emoticons or funny pictures to prove my points. all my methods were scientific or how to say.

 

I suggest that don't adress me and don't ask questions from me and don't add offtopical opinions. Continue with your sub talk as OP started. I jsut added democratically healty ingredient for oyu here. It is like i added a small pork chunk into your meal or the prohibited word "War" into your todays music.

 

Because all arguments have been answered then come to my own forum if you want to talk.

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

Because the reality shows that they have the same golden rank than me today, not a better one, so the historical stats must be misleading people.

 

Imagine thinking that ranked is a measure of skill.

[OldSchoolFrankie]

Good request thread opener!

Basically, it is noticeable that the players who obviously already have difficulties performing in the various ships also have a problem recognizing when game mechanics are not good for the game.  However, since this is about the larger part of the players, Wargming is not necessarily interested in good solutions for the game, why even if they stand in the way of the possible financial gain.

 

The thinking man's action game? There may have been a time, but the thinking part just doesn't spend that much money.

Submarines are really stupid? Well, I know who obviously doesn't have a problem with that.

[JeanLouisII]

Vor 16 Minuten, Fastmotion sagte:

You ask offtopics that are irrelevant about this topic and i explained why i don't want to talk about much i nthis forum but my own foru mthat follows humanity.

 

The very short answer to you is that clans have different rules and believes. My clan for example prohibits reporting, prohibits colored lists, prohibits hate talk, and we hire almost random people who just give their word that they follow our rules. We don't require anything else from them, no obligations. Other clans hire by other rules and have other rules. I believe most clans and most players repeat popular slogans al ltogether like is the tile of this topic and like is the hate speak in this topic and so on. So, go ask them why they hire as they hire and why they are liek they are. My opinion is that they have adopted blindly popular behaviours from others. Most hirering topics mention stats, so they hire by stats. Most job ads mention diplomas and so most companies higher people with as higher education as possible. Only minority of companies don't care about the diplomas and take talents in and grow them to gurus. So, clans hirering is a kind of brainwashed behaviour. The real exam of the skills is to do 5 battles together and see how the person really plays and forget his historical stats.

 

Your real question seems to be that why not to believe in stats if good players today have good historical stats. Well, the first answer is that have good players been good from the very beginning or they were bad initially? The answer is that they were bad like all are initially and their stats and knowledge were bad. So, in the history there was a day when they become good but their stats stil lshowed that they are bad. In that case their stats are wrong about the reality, right? The stats show that they are bad but they have just got all the skills yesterday and they are good now. So, this example shows that stats are not related to the reality. There are many examples. For example if the account is shared with a brother then the stats again don't show any reality. If the main stats were made in the history where the game software was different and playing easier and without new functionality then again the stats have nothing to say about the now. Many people perform well when they play at hours when internet speed is good and on other hours they perform badly with a laptop. Many depend on distractions and other factors. Because i take the game mentally healthy way as any entertainment then i enjoy everything else too than winning. For example it is interesting to see i nthe Ranked golden league how funny are DDs when you just follow them by doing a "pair DDs tactics"- they start to talk funnily and try to escape you and have brainwashed belief that all DDs must always go separately to a separte cap circle. Well, that is one entertaining thing to do of many and it doesn't make any good stats and that again proves that stats have nothing to sayabout skills of golden members. This topic about stats is long and i suggest to talk it separately in my personal forum.

 

Very often golden members come to me after a battle and complain that why i followed them or didnt go cap as they asked or whatever and typically they loose all the arguments then and then start to compare their stats to mine. They have 65% of historical rating and i have 40%. I say to them that why your 65% of historical Wows stats and good Highschool grades don't make you rank 1 in the golden league and you stay on the same rank level 9-2 like me. For that question they have nothing accountable to answer. I just suggest them then like this: maybe your historical highschool grades and Wows stats don't actually matter and are useless? Because the reality shows that they have the same golden rank than me today, not a better one, so the historical stats must be misleading people.

 

In my opinion stats are useless and it is mentally sick to compare stats in entertainment like billiards in pubs and in computer games. Therefore if one really wants to compare skills then make 5 battles tohether i nthe golden league with all ship types like a challenge. And then compare the result and comment the battles together and do argumentation. That shows more adequately what skills one has now in the entertainment. But some kind of stats fro mthe highschool or computer games don't show any such skills.

 

 

See, i told in this forum it is not possible to talk. Why then you keep giving me questions al lthe time if you know that it is not allowed here?

 

 

Why do you think that i didn't got some details and why do you think that details matter? Very often people try to find a grammar mistake in the opponents text and say that he won the argumentation because the opponent made a mistake in an irrelevant detail.

 

 

You say that you think that i am hired by someone but you can't prove your offtopical opinion. Well, why don't you ask from me if i am hired or not, or provide a proof.

I have given clear answers to everyone here and proved my strong arguments. I didn't use emoticons or funny pictures to prove my points. all my methods were scientific or how to say.

 

I suggest that don't adress me and don't ask questions from me and don't add offtopical opinions. Continue with your sub talk as OP started. I jsut added democratically healty ingredient for oyu here. It is like i added a small pork chunk into your meal or the prohibited word "War" into your todays music.

 

Because all arguments have been answered then come to my own forum if you want to talk.

Whats the namr of your special forum?

Must be a great place to be when players like u post there.

[Maris_Piper]

Well I've pressed G till my finger hurts and am I enjoying marines Hell No they S*ck Big Time 

            Either bin them or put them into a game mode where they fit 

[Fastmotion]

18 minutes ago, OldSchoolFrankie said:

Good request thread opener!

Basically, it is noticeable that the players who obviously already have difficulties performing in the various ships also have a problem recognizing when game mechanics are not good for the game.  However, since this is about the larger part of the players, Wargming is not necessarily interested in good solutions for the game, why even if they stand in the way of the possible financial gain.

 

The thinking man's action game? There may have been a time, but the thinking part just doesn't spend that much money.

Submarines are really stupid? Well, I know who obviously doesn't have a problem with that.

You agree with me that there are people who don't see problem in Subs. You say that in your last sentence. Also me, WG and thousands subs players agree with both me and you on this matter. So, it is good that we have at least some opinions the same. But it would be bad if all our opinions would be identical.

 

What do you mean by request opening? Do you mean that you want to first time in history write down the arguments that show why subs are good or bad and give such listing as a request to the WG? Or did you mean that you make a request to close this topic or something? Well, that would be like reporting in the game that violates Human rights and makes reporters complain and suffer on next battles. There is no victory in "solving" cosmetically things with sliencing something. I don't suggest any such requests and i prohibit those in my forum and also human rights and such are against it.

 

You seem to say that most players have difficulties in most ships. Well, can you prove it somehow? In my first opinion it is mainly true and the proof is to analize let's say 5 battles in a row. But as i told it is not important how people perform in entertainment games like billiards, Wows. So, let most have beginners' skillset.

 

5 minutes ago, JeanLouisII said:

Whats the namr of your special forum?

Must be a great place to be when players like u post there.

 

My clan description has the link to our forum. In our forum we follow rules that support humans and we believe in arguments not in the blind brainwashed believes.

 

4 minutes ago, Maris_Piper said:

Well I've pressed G till my finger hurts and am I enjoying marines Hell No the S*ck Big Time 

            Either bin them or put them into a game mode where they fit 

 

I have pressed G button often when the MM has no subs because it makes the perimeter secured with the mines. It is just a good practice to do.

[tadaMonika]

10 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

My clan description has the link to our forum. In our forum we follow rules that support humans and we believe in arguments not in the blind brainwashed believes.

The plot thickens

That's exactly something a low level AI would conjure in order to appeal to it's "fellow" homo sapiens sapiens

[Shirakami_Kon]

This is peak comedy. 

Better than the actual game by now.

[Fastmotion]

1 minute ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

This is peak comedy. 

Better than the actual game by now.

So, you seem to start understanding what i explain. I explained that in entertainment people don't do hate talk and don't go to a bar tender to report anybody who played better than they or had a different opinion. It is good if you start to first time to understand. You are like enlightened now.

 

5 minutes ago, tadaMonika said:

The plot thickens

That's exactly something a low level AI would conjure in order to appeal to it's "fellow" homo sapiens sapiens

 

I hope you understood my point that silencing, reporting, banning is not reasonable solutions in human population. For example some countries begin war in the other countries and kill humans there. Is it good/right to kill other humans? No. But they continue the war and prohibit the word "war" and anybody who dares to say that the ward and killing is bad for humans of the planet they will put to the prison such people. In Wows i have many times got the right to speak removed and that is not good for them or anybody. So, in my forum we have rules that support humans. With animals you may have other kind rules. I suggest to come to my forum and do your offtopical talks there and not here.

 

Can we all agree by now that the argumentation period is over and closed. So, don't say any new arguments and specially don't adress me or ask me. If you really need then come to my forum and there we can talk.

[OldSchoolFrankie]

10 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

You agree with me that there are people who don't see problem in Subs. You say that in your last sentence. Also me, WG and thousands subs players agree with both me and you on this matter. So, it is good that we have at least some opinions the same. But it would be bad if all our opinions would be identical.

If that's what you take away from my post, then congratulations. Obviously you just want to see what fits into your world.

 

11 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

What do you mean by request opening? Do you mean that you want to first time in history write down the arguments that show why subs are good or bad and give such listing as a request to the WG? Or did you mean that you make a request to close this topic or something? Well, that would be like reporting in the game that violates Human rights and makes reporters complain and suffer on next battles. There is no victory in "solving" cosmetically things with sliencing something. I don't suggest any such requests and i prohibit those in my forum and also human rights and such are against it.

Really? "Good request thread opener!" That said, I like what the opener of this thread you write in all the time has chosen as a topic, small reminder: "Remove Submarines".

 

11 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

You seem to say that most players have difficulties in most ships. Well, can you prove it somehow? In my first opinion it is mainly true and the proof is to analize let's say 5 battles in a row. But as i told it is not important how people perform in entertainment games like billiards, Wows. So, let most have beginners' skillset.

You'll be part of a team in a competitive mode, so it should mean something, otherwise please go play coop and don't disrupt everyone else's game or or try to improve.

If you want I can explain it here based on your statistics, but only with your consent. Let me know.

[Shirakami_Kon]

7 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

So, you seem to start understanding what i explain. I explained that in entertainment people don't do hate talk and don't go to a bar tender to report anybody who played better than they or had a different opinion. It is good if you start to first time to understand. You are like enlightened now.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

15 hours ago, Fastmotion said:

I can share my honest opinions about submarines.

...snip

I believe in those facts:

...snip

Here i shared with you simple clear arguments that prove that Subs are good. If your opinion is different then why not to give arguments or just accept that people are different with different opinions?

First off, your opinions are not freely interchangable with 'facts' as you do here. Second off, you didn't 'prove' submarines in their current design are good either. What you argue is that most submarines you encounter in game so far are harmless, and that the class offers additional features in general. Which i agree with. That doesn't argue however that subs in their current state are good for the game. It only argues that your opinion regarding subs is a positive one.

 

You even go out of your way stating submarines have very clear weaknesses showcasing yourself carrier sniping and running out of divetime completely. This to you 'proves' that subs have well implemented weaknesses. To me it 'proves' you don't understand how to effectively play subs.

 

Just because you don't understand the issues people are pointing out, doesn't mean being of the opposite opinon automatically makes you right as you seem to be thinking here. You even seem convinced of a just cause. A crucade almost, looking at the walls of text so far. What you present mostly is a case of forum apostacy.

 

Lastly: statistics point to how well people understand underlying game mechanics. Denouncing gameplay statistics as a measure or tool is false.

 

You like submarines, and that is perfectly fine. I do too but their current state has serious issues. You can read about those all over the forums. Stating you haven't read any solid arguments on these forums so far is dishonest at best probably.

[Fastmotion]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolFrankie said:

If that's what you take away from my post, then congratulations. Obviously you just want to see what fits into your world.

Yes, that part from your post is clear and the truth and proves what i have said before. Do you suggest to ignore your those opinions that are the same that WG, me and thousnads of players have? Why not to agree with the reality that many people including you have proved my points here and that is totally normal. You don't have to see my as an enemy whose all opinions must be wrong. No, my opinions are all correct and you yourself with others provie it.

 

5 minutes ago, OldSchoolFrankie said:

Really? "Good request thread opener!" That said, I like what the opener of this thread you write in all the time has chosen as a topic, small reminder: "Remove Submarines".

Wgat do you mean by Really? I don't really see what do you mean here but i understand that you are offtopic. You agree that msot people including you have been offtopic here but i have given intopic opinions. If the tile is "remove subs" then obviously we should talk about plusses and minuses of the subs. This is what i did and that is mandatory and intopic.

 

7 minutes ago, OldSchoolFrankie said:

You'll be part of a team in a competitive mode, so it should mean something, otherwise please go play coop and don't disrupt everyone else's game or or try to improve.

If you want I can explain it here based on your statistics, but only with your consent. Let me know.

You couldn't prove your point with such answer. that proves again my arguments.

You introduced a new opinion which seems to say that all people should treat entertainment games the same way and seems like negative way by doing negative speach like you do and doing hate speach against subs and so on. I believe you are wrong that entertainment should be such.

Also you seem to say that who don't compete nervously and do hate speach should stay away from Random battles and be in the coop only. That sounds very unhuman and wrong and is against software. If software allows you to entertain with the Random Battles button then one should go and enjoy and do no negative talk or attitude. There is no reason and no point to go to Coop and the Coop doesn't provide the same functionality like Randoms. so, here you are again totally wrong. I ask you to take calmly the fact that you are wrong. We are all wrong sometimes that is common to humans. But robots/bots/ai are always smarter and better than humans of cause. That why it is always a compliment if people call you a bot. The best chess bots are gods i would say.

 

You say that you can explain something based on stats. But i already proved that stats are useless and can't explain anything and everyone agreed with that argument and my other arguments because they didn't provide any opoosite arguments. You cannot explain anything about any account and that is an offtopic and i don't think it enlightens anybody or proves anything.

[OldSchoolFrankie]

Clearly. Thank you and I'll just leave it at that.

[Nibenay78]

1 hour ago, Fastmotion said:

My opinion is that they have adopted blindly popular behaviours from others.

My opinion is that your opinion is wrong! 

 

1 hour ago, Fastmotion said:

They have 65% of historical rating and i have 40%. I say to them that why your 65% of historical Wows stats and good Highschool grades don't make you rank 1 in the golden league and you stay on the same rank level 9-2 like me. For that question they have nothing accountable to answer. I just suggest them then like this: maybe your historical highschool grades and Wows stats don't actually matter and are useless? Because the reality shows that they have the same golden rank than me today, not a better one, so the historical stats must be misleading people.

Because everyone can become rank 1 in gold simply by joining and being afk? It will probably take a lot longer than a 65% player doing their best every game though.

 

Winrate is not perfect but it certainly tends to be an obvious difference if you are dead and you start to spectate a 40% and a 65% player. And if you want to know the more realistic (recent) WR it's also pretty easy to find...

[Fastmotion]

7 minutes ago, Europizza said:

First off, your opinions are not freely interchangable with 'facts' as you do here. Second off, you didn't 'prove' submarines in their current design are good either. What you argue is that most submarines you encounter in game so far are harmless, and that the class offers additional features in general. Which i agree with. That doesn't argue however that subs in their current state are good for the game. It only argues that your opinion regarding subs is a positive one.

 

You even go out of your way stating submarines have very clear weaknesses showcasing yourself carrier sniping and running out of divetime completely. This to you 'proves' that subs have well implemented weaknesses. To me it 'proves' you don't understand how to effectively play subs.

 

Just because you don't understand the issues people are pointing out, doesn't mean being of the opposite opinon automatically makes you right as you seem to be thinking here. You even seem convinced of a just cause. A crucade almost, looking at the walls of text so far. What you present mostly is a case of apostacy.

 

Lastly: statistics point to how well people understand underlying game mechanics. Denouncing gameplay statistics as a measure or tool is false.

 

You like submarines, and that is perfectly fine. I do too but their current state has serious issues. You can read about those all over the forums. Stating you haven't read any solid arguments on these forums so far is dishonest at best probably.

 

I understood you want to suggest to not represent opinions as facts? Your suggestion is for those people in this topic who say "everyone hates subs" because that sounds like a fact and they don't add any clause there like "this is my opinion". And they really seemed to be like brainwashed or how to say that sincerely believe that everyone hates. If you want to suggest them to not do hate speach or not to represent opinions as facts then tell them that. You don't have to tel lthat to me because i haven't phrased myself such way.

 

You like many others agreed clearly that the reality is that subs are harmless. Why do you feel then need to remove a harmless thing? Provide a proof how some harmless things can be bad. I think i already mentioned some good sides of subs. They make the game more interesting, more realistic. But i don't have to provide the whole listing of good sides. I firstly achieved that i proved that there are no bad sides in those harmless things.

 

I don't understand your opinion about subs sniping Cvs. The subs don't have enough air most of the battles and die because of that very often either in front of the CV or elsewhere. That is a fact and has nothing to do what you think about anyones knowledge. There is no knowledge in the subs and air topic. And if there even is a minor detail then it doesn't prove that someone has totally wrong knowledge about something. As i gave previously an example that if you find a grammar detail in someones argumentation then that doesn't make you a winner in the whole argumentation. I didn't understood your CV example but also some people didn't understood earlier some of my examples. I commented and comment to such cases again: it does not matter if one don't understand some detail in the big picture.

 

You say that i don't understand issues what peopel are pointing out. I reply to that i am aware of all arguments in that topic and i think you are wrong again by assuming that i don't understand something. I suggest that don't assume.

 

You say an offtopical belief that stats are good after i have proved that stats are useless and you can't deny any of the arguments that i gave there. I suggest again that find a forum where you can talk about such topic. There is no point to tweet somewhere without any proof and any dialogue that "stats are good and subs and pork bad" and believe that.

 

Finally you say that it is fine that thousands of people like Subs and play them. Well, many people in this topic disagree with you and would say that everyone hates subs and it is not fine to like subs. I have for example got chat banned when i said that i like subs. So, go and argue with other people why they have different opinion than you and me. And good to see that we have the same opinion i none thing.

 

And seems you suggest to go read something, some forums. Well, this sounds like the earlier suggestion to watch live videos. I explained why i deny your such suggestions. I explained my every point well in this argumentation so i suggest people to go read earlier explanations above.

[Fastmotion]

25 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

My opinion is that your opinion is wrong! 

 

Because everyone can become rank 1 in gold simply by joining and being afk? It will probably take a lot longer than a 65% player doing their best every game though.

 

Winrate is not perfect but it certainly tends to be an obvious difference if you are dead and you start to spectate a 40% and a 65% player. And if you want to know the more realistic (recent) WR it's also pretty easy to find...

It is a popular belief that everyone can become rank 1 in golden league. That offtopical false belief suggest that just enter a battle an either be Afk or yolo and do many battles and you get carried to rank 1. The reality proves that such opinion is totally out of reality. The reality is that weaker players will never reach even the golden league this way. How to prove it. One proof is that look at the Random battles results and see how many percentage of players are golden members from 30 players? Not many, i would say 1 in average. How to prove? Let's post screenshots of 5 battles where you see that subs are at the bottom harmlessly and golden rank is visible only for 1 or 2 players from 30 and if you see how many have rank 3 or 2 then you don't see anyone. That is a proof with your eyes. Your eyes show that not many get golden rank. Also experience proves it. Make a challenge with someone to yolo 30 battles in a row in a silver league and show the pictures here how much the rank increased. I believe it won't inclease but stay on the rank 10. Specially in the golden league with 5 players in MM one won't get rank 1 by yolo. do you agree that you were wrong i nthat popular belief?

 

You seem to say that winrate is not perfect but other people believe that stats are all good. Go argue with them who is wrong- you or others in this topic. I explained that the main reason people talk about stats is to feed mentally ill mind. In this topic some people try to even use a method like "your stats are bad and therefore your opinion about pork, war and subs are all wrong". I hope you understand that stats are not a tool/argument to determine the truth. And most cases stats are for mental issues, feeding insecure ego and so on. If you have no arguments left and are loosing an argumentation then you try to save yourself by attacking the opponents hair cut and historical highschool grases or Wows stats. Those stats don't determine anything about wheather 2+2 is 4 or not 4. Stats are irrelevant. Specially irrelevant about topics like "are subs bad or not". Also i gave plenty of examples why stats are irrelevant. If suggested to measure todays skills with a 10 battles together and doing analyze and when you hire an employee you do an exam and ignore diplomas. I gave an example that a 65% WR persons didn't reach rank 1 and had worse rank and worse playing skills in a battle than me which proves that the stats didnt played but the person played.

I don't believe in any stats and in any diplomas. I only believe if you are today i nthe golden league then i believe you have golden level, if you are i nthe silver league then your level is silver. I don't believe any numbers from Random battles or any numbers from historical other battles. and i have explained well my reasons. The main point is that it does not matter which stats i have.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

40 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

 

I understood you want to suggest to not represent opinions as facts? Your suggestion is for those people in this topic who say "everyone hates subs" because that sounds like a fact and they don't add any clause there like "this is my opinion". And they really seemed to be like brainwashed or how to say that sincerely believe that everyone hates. If you want to suggest them to not do hate speach or not to represent opinions as facts then tell them that. You don't have to tel lthat to me because i haven't phrased myself such way.

 

You like many others agreed clearly that the reality is that subs are harmless. Why do you feel then need to remove a harmless thing? Provide a proof how some harmless things can be bad. I think i already mentioned some good sides of subs. They make the game more interesting, more realistic. But i don't have to provide the whole listing of good sides. I firstly achieved that i proved that there are no bad sides in those harmless things.

 

I don't understand your opinion about subs sniping Cvs. The subs don't have enough air most of the battles and die because of that very often either in front of the CV or elsewhere. That is a fact and has nothing to do what you think about anyones knowledge. There is no knowledge in the subs and air topic. And if there even is a minor detail then it doesn't prove that someone has totally wrong knowledge about something. As i gave previously an example that if you find a grammar detail in someones argumentation then that doesn't make you a winner in the whole argumentation. I didn't understood your CV example but also some people didn't understood earlier some of my examples. I commented and comment to such cases again: it does not matter if one don't understand some detail in the big picture.

 

You say that i don't understand issues what peopel are pointing out. I reply to that i am aware of all arguments in that topic and i think you are wrong again by assuming that i don't understand something. I suggest that don't assume.

 

You say an offtopical belief that stats are good after i have proved that stats are useless and you can't deny any of the arguments that i gave there. I suggest again that find a forum where you can talk about such topic. There is no point to tweet somewhere without any proof and any dialogue that "stats are good and subs and pork bad" and believe that.

 

Finally you say that it is fine that thousands of people like Subs and play them. Well, many people in this topic disagree with you and would say that everyone hates subs and it is not fine to like subs. I have for example got chat banned when i said that i like subs. So, go and argue with other people why they have different opinion than you and me. And good to see that we have the same opinion i none thing.

 

And seems you suggest to go read something, some forums. Well, this sounds like the earlier suggestion to watch live videos. I explained why i deny your such suggestions. I explained my every point well in this argumentation so i suggest people to go read earlier explanations above.

Again, you are confused on so many levels. I don't think submarines should be removed. You keep denouncing others as brainwashed which is not an argument but a dismissal. A generic opinion that most subs you encounter are harmless actually points to a gameplay design that has severe issues. As I mentioned clearly you don't understand cv sniping in submarines, there is no need to keep repeating you do not understand how to optimize sub gameplay. Also I am not assuming you lack understanding, I see it in your posts and your in game performance. It is also very unlikely you got chat banned for saying 'I like subs'. It's more likely you discussed it in a chat ban worthy frasing.

 

All in all I suggest you stop confusing a personal crusade with argumentative discourse.

[Nibenay78]

28 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

It is a popular belief that everyone can become rank 1 in golden league. That offtopical false belief suggest that just enter a battle an either be Afk or yolo and do many battles and you get carried to rank 1. The reality proves that such opinion is totally out of reality.

It is theoretically possible to do indeed, but neither you nor me can make a good estimate how many battles are required to participate in by an AFK player. It might indeed be not realistically possible simply by the time of ranked being too short to realistically play the expected number of battles. Of course if we "upgrade" a player from AFK to "really bad player", they might occationally/rarely get a #1 placement and thus save a star and improve on the expected number of battles.

 

Quote

The reality is that weaker players will never reach even the golden league this way. How to prove it. One proof is that look at the Random battles results and see how many percentage of players are golden members from 30 players? Not many, i would say 1 in average.

An extremely weak proof (almost irrelevant) as we don't know how many play ranked (or reach golden).  I have RL friends that only bother to play bronze for example as they want some steel, but don't find ranked format fun and stop at the "easier" level, despite most likely being able to reach #1 in golden with some effort.

 

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How to prove? Let's post screenshots of 5 battles where you see that subs are at the bottom harmlessly and golden rank is visible only for 1 or 2 players from 30 and if you see how many have rank 3 or 2 then you don't see anyone. That is a proof with your eyes. Your eyes show that not many get golden rank. Also experience proves it. Make a challenge with someone to yolo 30 battles in a row in a silver league and show the pictures here how much the rank increased. I believe it won't inclease but stay on the rank 10.

I don't know why you insist on picking small numbers like 5-6? It's pathetically small to make any sort of proof. 

 

edit:  

I forgot to answer this: yes most likely it will be down (stuck at 10). Get 10 000 players to do this and some will go up, more will go down. Statistically.

 

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Specially in the golden league with 5 players in MM one won't get rank 1 by yolo. do you agree that you were wrong i nthat popular belief?

I will agree that it's extremely unlikely - which is not the same as saying it's theoretically impossible. 

 

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You seem to say that winrate is not perfect but other people believe that stats are all good. Go argue with them who is wrong- you or others in this topic. I explained that the main reason people talk about stats is to feed mentally ill mind. In this topic some people try to even use a method like "your stats are bad and therefore your opinion about pork, war and subs are all wrong". I hope you understand that stats are not a tool/argument to determine the truth.

They generally give a good indication about a players competency in this game, of course its not perfect, but as mentioned you can see the recent stats also, not just overall. To say "your stats sucks thus you are wrong" might not be a very kind thing, but having good/bad stats also does show the level of understanding the game/ships/situations to a noticable degree. It's like saying my opinion about various mechanics in golf is as good as Tiger woods'. For the record I have used a golf club for about 30 minutes.

 

I'm allowed to have as many opinions as I want, but I truly believe people would put more weight on what the other guy says about golf.

 

Quote

And most cases stats are for mental issues, feeding insecure ego and so on. If you have no arguments left and are loosing an argumentation then you try to save yourself by attacking the opponents hair cut and historical highschool grases or Wows stats. Those stats don't determine anything about wheather 2+2 is 4 or not 4. Stats are irrelevant. Specially irrelevant about topics like "are subs bad or not". Also i gave plenty of examples why stats are irrelevant. If suggested to measure todays skills with a 10 battles together and doing analyze and when you hire an employee you do an exam and ignore diplomas. I gave an example that a 65% WR persons didn't reach rank 1 and had worse rank and worse playing skills in a battle than me which proves that the stats didnt played but the person played.

I don't believe in any stats and in any diplomas. I only believe if you are today i nthe golden league then i believe you have golden level, if you are i nthe silver league then your level is silver. I don't believe any numbers from Random battles or any numbers from historical other battles. and i have explained well my reasons. The main point is that it does not matter which stats i have.

Believing is best done in church. If you have a good argument people will accept it. I have not seen many good arguments really, mostly that you don't believe in statistics and seem to think that "popular opinion" is bad regardless what it is based on.

[Fastmotion]

17 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Again, you are confused on so many levels. I don't think submarines should be removed. You keep denouncing others as brainwashed which is not an argument but a dismissal. A generic opinion that most subs you encounter are harmless actually points to a gameplay design that has severe issues. As I mentioned clearly you don't understand cv sniping in submarines, there is no need to keep repeating you do not understand how to optimize sub gameplay. Also I am not assuming you lack understanding, I see it in your posts and your in game performance. It is also very unlikely you got chat banned for saying 'I like subs'. It's more likely you discussed it in a chat ban worthy frasing.

 

All in all I suggest you stop confusing a personal crusade with argumentative discourse.

I think you agreed with most of my arguments because you didn't provide any reasonable arguments against mine and you even agreed with some of my arguments. For example, we both agree that subs should not be removed fro mthe game, should not.

I don't comment your other part of the text but just recommend you to assume less and provide a proof to your opinions.

Can we agree that this is fine that we both suggest to each other something and stay on the same main opinion about subs that they should stay and have different other opinions? Let others hate subs and want to remove them but many people here including you are in the opposite position.

[Shirakami_Kon]

He really is hired by WG, they are still not stopping this clownfiesta.