Remove Submarines

[Nibenay78]

2 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

I just realised something. This whole thread is just an ad to try and get people to join his decrepid one man forum.

You only noticed now? he's been spamming that stuff since the start. Pretty hard work for him I think 

[Fastmotion]

Just now, SV_Kompresor said:

Can we use an elevator?

No. This is a step by step journey in a waterfall manner that you just don't understand the step 2 if step 1 is not compelted and usually the step 1 is the most complex. Similar thing with steps is in the buddhism that you must forst realize that you don't exists otherwise the second step looks weird or funny etc. Like one of your league members earlier said that it is difficult to talk about higher physics if you don't learn the basic level one. His idea was right but with 1 mistake which i described and i nthe physics example there is really an elevator way and no preceding steps needed. Even a child can be given a Quantum TicTacTou drawing and she can place the things in the game so that it amazes all the scientists anda new discovery is made. But in the argumentation area you must get elementary understandings first. You cant jump to the top level immediately.

[Terence321]

Vor 15 Minuten, Fastmotion sagte:

1. You say that i ignored your post. There is probably a reason why i ignored i can't remember but i know the fact that i have answered 30X more than most of the opponents including you and i doupt that you or any of your league qualifies so what is the reason to repeat arguments to you there. Be 1 who i missed to answer because you don't qualify or other reasons and stay i nthe subs topic.

You say that i ignored your post.

-> Yes, that is obvious. In fact, you just picked out a little quote but evaded the whole argument altogether.

 

There is probably a reason why i ignored i can't remember

-> There is also the option you could not argue against that.

 

i know the fact that i have answered 30X more than most of the opponents including you

-> And that is relevant how?

 

i doupt that you or any of your league qualifies

-> I am not part of what you insist to call "a league" - despite even asked for you never explained what you even mean with that term exactly. Another proof of you ignoring posts (while you yourself said that you never ignore arguments and questions)

 

reason to repeat arguments to you there.

-> There is nothing to repeat. I presented you arguments that were not brought up yet and therefore had not been answered beforehand. You actively ignored my post, just quoting the rather irrelevant "PS" section. This quote in itself proofs that you noticed the post.

 

Be 1 who i missed to answer because you don't qualify or other reasons and stay i nthe subs topic.

-> You specifially asked for an answer to your "brother" example in order to qualify and I gave you exactly that. You don't even play by your own rules. Pathetic.

[Fastmotion]

5 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

I just realised something. This whole thread is just an ad to try and get people to join his decrepid one man forum.

that is a nice enlightening that you made first in your league. but i deny your assumption and i don't need to provide any proof for that because i myself own the truth here, not others, i nthat matter.

[lup3s]

12 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

many people learned many other things. But all of them also faded suffering away for a moment.

After the step 5 after delusions have gone they feel even better.

I can lead to the step 5 but you have to first pass the first steps.

 

What is step 5 ? I'm curious.

 

[SV_Kompresor]

1 minute ago, Fastmotion said:

that is a nice enlightening that you made first in your league. but i deny your assumption and i don't need to provide any proof for that because i myself own the truth here, not others, i nthat matter.

You're not qualified to be your own truth. Praise the lord damn it. The herald of truth is upon us.

[Nibenay78]

2 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

i don't need to provide any proof for that because i myself own the truth here

[Fastmotion]

17 hours ago, Terence321 said:

 

 

If you would measure players of any sports (which can be competitive while being entertainment at the same time) by stats top level players would probably also be the highest ranked ones. This translates to WoWS as well. Super-Unicums would be the players in the highest league in statistical terms. As I cannot fathom how anyone could argue that a 65% WR player is even comparable to a 43% player while the skill difference is so blatantly obvious that denial of stats seems to me like denial of own failure, I think it is very clear that these high level players have a far better understanding of game-mechanics, positioning, aiming, strengths and weaknesses of the enemy ships (in relation to their own and surrounding allies), game-sense in terms of understanding the current situation in relation to the progession of the game, decision-making based on all of these factors than almost everyone out there. All of these factors matter, because it is outright impossible to reach such a winrate (which in almost all cases corresponds with a very high average damage -> which is in itself a combination of timing, aiming and position, high survival rate -> positioning, decision making, high kill-count -> aiming, decision-making) while having subpar skills on even one of these, let alone all of them. It is safe to assume that a 43% winrate player has not mastered even one of these factors (as he would raise his winrate as a consequence), in some cases may not even be aware that these exist.

This superior knowledge from high-skilled of the game itself in most cases result in a very well informed opinion about topics like balancing ships and classes which through this exact knowledge inherently has some validation to it. On the other hand a bottom 20% player will most likely not have understood the implications of a change - or here the introduction of new type - entirely. You may be the exception, but when you declared Cruiser and BB as "gambler ships" I lost hope to be honest. To knowledgeable players this outright showed your lack of understanding of the interaction of classes and inherent game mechanics, in this case spotting distances and their implications - which directly translates to your stats.

 

Although not the deciding factor if an opinion is valid or based on a lack of understanding, the overall and recent performance can - especially in more extreme cases - be an indicator on how profound in terms of mechanical knowledge of the game an opinion actually is. You may disagree, but you will not convince anyone here, despite what you might tell yourself. The combination of lack of mechanical knowledge while defending a certain flawed point of view has been witnessed countless times in this forum throughout the years. In addition: As open stats allow to track the recent performance it is irrelevant how bad the overall stats are. If your recent 21 day stats are at unicum level people will realize that and accept the improvement. Therefore the whole argument about "I had bad stats at the beginning", "Current League Ranks matters" and whatnot is pointless.

This also contributes to yoru argument about subs being harmless. Well, it's kinda like guns. Some say guns are harmless, the user does the harm. Others see the existence of guns as a catalyst to gun violence. There are just two different points of view that imo will never agree with each other. The point all your discussants tried to make is that currently mostly people who occasionally pull the trigger by chance and miss most of the time are indeed to an extend harmless. But a soldier will kill dozens. Translated to WoWS most new and/or bad players will sometimes hit a ship. An unicum erases the whole flank untouched. These ships are only harmless because most of the users just have no idea at all what they're doing and how to abuse the power they wield.

 

PS: I really do not get why you insist on your own forum so much?

PPS: I would actually like to the your 20 argument list.

i sthis post the onewhere you answer the spam and brothers question?

[Fastmotion]

1 minute ago, lup3s said:

 

What is step 5 ? I'm curious.

 

many are curious but i don't feed the curiousity because i don't believe that you qualify to understand those 5 steps.

[159Hunter]

59 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

we already went through a popular inadequate argument about stats. We concluded that stats don't prove any thing and any opinion. In the real life the equivalent behaviour is that people end argumentations by stating their expertize. Example: i am right because i have worked 16 years i nthat industry. I am right because i am have a chemist diploma. All such inadequate arguments are not valid. It does not matter which grades i got in the high school and in the Wows- those numbers don't affect my opinions and don't determine if my arguments are right or wrong. I explained that earlier. Those are primitive essential rules to understand in life and in Wows and in argumentation.

we? are you talking about yourself in a plural form?

 

well hello there Charles, I thought you had to attend a session in Westminster today?

 

As for stats don't matter: they don't matter about an opinion, they do add to your credibility. Any fool can have an opinion, one someone with knowledge (be it skill, education, ...) can have an educated opinion.

The player whos stats I linked clearly falls into the former category.

[SV_Kompresor]

3 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

What is step 5 ? I'm curious.

 

Add boiling water.

[lup3s]

1 minute ago, Fastmotion said:

many are curious but i don't feed the curiousity because i don't believe that you qualify to understand those 5 steps.

 

but I don't want to know all 5 steps ... just step 5 ? or is that impossible, the steps are a sequential thing ?

[Fastmotion]

1 minute ago, 159Hunter said:

we? are you talking about yourself in a plural form?

We means people who were included in the dialogue. I believe we can say that We includes you as well because you either replied there or now here or just followed in your thoughts the logics.

[Terence321]

Vor 9 Minuten, Fastmotion sagte:

i sthis post the onewhere you answer the spam and brothers question?

No. You then replied this:

Vor 17 Stunden, Fastmotion sagte:

1. It is totally possible that the topic would be closed on the next day. don't you agree that closing topings and silencing other ways is a common thing in this comunity? Therefore it is better to move to a proper forum. If we can't agree on that current point 1 here then what is the point of going here through 20 arguments?

2. Here we disagree again. I say that this topic has too many spam and you don't agree with that. do you want me to point 1 by 1 all the spam in this topic? For example i will represent unnecessary videos and pictures and stuff. Would you again disagree that those are irrelevant spam? Inthat case you don't have enough skills to do argumentation and there is no point to go throught the 20 arguments. In my forum we would agree immediately al ltogether that we don't spam.

3. We disagree even in this 3rd point. You say that your answer to the brothers example was adequate. I explained that it wasn't. There is no point to continue the dialogeu in style "yes it was, no it wasnt, yes, no, yes". don't you agree? It was a very straight YesNo question. Do you agree that the brothers account in the example would show reasonable data? Yes or no? If you ignore to say Yes or No and provide some kind of irrelevant other text then there is no point to go through the remaining 19 arguments and in life it is declared in those cases that you lost the argumentation by not answering to the question. It is like when in a court a murderer is asked that where he was yesterday 5pm and he ignores the answer by replying with irrelevant off topicl like "you know the victim was not a good person" or "you know today is a sunny day" then in life that means that he is guilty i nthe murder because he didn't answer the straight question.

Now I am still waiting for your answer to my following reply:

Vor 2 Stunden, Terence321 sagte:

1.) It is still open. In a later post you said that in your forum spam is deleted. How and by whom it is decided what is spam worthy to be deleted and what is not? Effectively you are silencing people in your own forum. Wouldn't you violate the same human rights that you claim to defend in your forum?

2.) From what I've seen you just declare things you do not understand to be spam or invalid/irrelevant. And a massive use of suggestive questions which in itself is a fallacy. Besides that I did not post any picture or video, it is a fallacy again to deny the discussion through the behaviour of other people.

3.) I did not even try to answer your brother example, you brought that up against another person in the first place. You seem to have lost track of who presents which argument and what you have responded to them, you mix these up constantly. You even seem to think "we" (aka the other league as you say) are a coherent mass with the same opinion on all topics. Surprise - "we" aren't.

Anyway, what you are doing here is constructing a rare special case that even violates the ToS at 5.6, with the purpose of evading everything else I have said. And even if we accept that some still share their accounts, the only way your argument works is when there is a big skill and playtime difference between both at the same time. When one person is exceptionally bad and plays 80%+ of all games on that account, you may not see the influence of his unicum brother with superb game knowledge that plays the little rest of the games, he may go completely unnoticed by just evaluating stats. If the unicum brother would want to prove his existence, he could play the account exclusively for one week and share his stats. In that case the recent 7 day stats would be far superior to the overall stats - they are not affected by the accounts history at all.
If we turn that around though, the unicum brother plays 80%+ games and lets his potato brother play sometimes, the account would still have very good stats by the sheer amount of the contribution to them by the unicum brother.

If they are pretty much equal, their account would just show both their stats and skilllevel at the same time as none of them is such an outlier that they would impact the overall statistics negatively or positively. If both are plain bad, the account will still hover at 40-43% WR and so on.

So: yes, it still think they allow even in these circumstances a reasonable evaluation.

 

Your statistical fluke does not devaluate what I have actually said in the grand scheme, it only shows that in such cases we can't be sure which of the accounts' users is actually posting and there might be a slight chance that it's indeed an unnoticed unicum brother whose arguments get devalued by having abmyssal stats while actually he is very knowledgable. Which he still could prove with recent 7 day stats. We could go on and argue on how many cases of your constructed argument are even out there, but I'll leave it at that for now.

 

You may want to go on and dissect my argument about the relevance of stats sentence by sentence instead of the usage of fallacies and evasion.

 

And do not forget that you yourself said that good players in Subs are statistical noise and therefore do not matter. The same goes for your brother argument. You basically debunked your own argument.

[Fastmotion]

4 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

but I don't want to know all 5 steps ... just step 5 ? or is that impossible, the steps are a sequential thing ?

i repeat that, the step 5 alone is not possible.

You continue to suffer about subs and other things, those sufferings don't go away just like that. If you pass the preceding steps then the problems fade away and the step 5 occurs automatically. There is a delusional illusion that Subs are bad and that makes the suffering feeling. That delusion fades away after steps 1-2.

[SV_Kompresor]

1 minute ago, Fastmotion said:

i repeat that step 5 alone is not possible.

You continue to suffer about subs and other things that don't go away just like that. If you pass the preceding steps then the problems fade away and the step 5 occurs automatically.

I'll be damned if I don't try.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

So the secret of winning debates is debating on your own... if only Playdough had known this.

[Cammo1962]

1 minute ago, SV_Kompresor said:

I'll be damned if I don't try.

You are missing a step there brother @SV_Kompresor 

[SV_Kompresor]

Just now, Cammo1962 said:

You are missing a step there brother @SV_Kompresor 

You are not qualified to make that determination.

[159Hunter]

20 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

I just realised something. This whole thread is just an ad to try and get people to join his decrepid one man forum.

It works, I came back for this topic cause @ForlornSailor summonez me

[Fastmotion]

1 minute ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

So the secret of winning debates is debating on your own... if only Playdough had known this.

there are many truths and people proved that they learned some from me today.

Winning debates is in my opinion so that you need a very stong skillset of the basics of the step 1. The intermediate steps are not so important to practice and come naturally.

The upper level secrets require good intuition, good awereness handling and other mental training.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 minute ago, Fastmotion said:

there are many truths and people proved that they learned some from me today.

Winning debates is in my opinion so that you need a very stong skillset of the basics of the step 1. The intermediate steps are not so important to practice and come naturally.

The upper level secrets require good intuition, good awereness handling and other mental training.

 

But what if I'm not very good with steps and stumble. Won't I fall flat on my face?

[lup3s]

5 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

i repeat that, the step 5 alone is not possible.

You continue to suffer about subs and other things, those sufferings don't go away just like that. If you pass the preceding steps then the problems fade away and the step 5 occurs automatically. There is a delusional illusion that Subs are bad and that makes the suffering feeling. That delusion fades away after steps 1-2.

 

I don't suffer about subs, I think they are not ready (yet^TM) to go live into the game.
I do not like the current implementation of subs, that is a difference than suffering from them.

[159Hunter]

2 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

You are not qualified to make that determination.

We concluded that he is qualified to do so

[SV_Kompresor]

3 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

It works, I came back for this topic cause @ForlornSailor summonez me

Correction. He activated you. Praise thy lord.