Are subs MORE impactful than CV's???

[SolanumTuberosumRex]

47 minutes ago, FukushuNL said:

CVs are exactly the same apart from CVs bring fast and their actual damagable hull is camping in the next map, while subs are slow and can be hit by lucky ASW, for how much good that might do in the current itteration as pings are random spots and Subs have massive HP.

 

For the rest, they are the same broken op sh*tclass. Only CV's speed makes them a terror to the whole map.

You have no argument from me that CV's don't belong in the game, and that their presence is essentially destructive only. It is however mostly due to the spotting mechanics. In the two and a half years since I've been playing I've suffered massive damage from CV's twice only, and in both instances it happened to be a Shokaku. Still bear a special grudge against that ship. 😄

CV's also should not be invulnerable to fire and tankier than a Kremlin, but because they're always the last ship to die anyway, that hardly matters anymore.

With subs you are even less able to defend yourself than with CV's. I am a cruiser main so CV's usually pick on me less, but I've never felt so defenseless against a CV as I almost always do against subs. With planes you get some warning they're incoming, I can choose to angle against either the planes or the Slava 20 kms away (😂), and I can hope the Cleveland AA will change their mind about attacking me. A sub needs to respect NO ONE. Stay more than 2 kms away and you're invisible, no one even knows you're there.

Again, I am not saying one is worse than the other. Just interested to see which is actually and practicallly speaking more impactful.

[FukushuNL]

24 minutes ago, PsychoClownfish said:

You have no argument from me that CV's don't belong in the game, and that their presence is essentially destructive only. It is however mostly due to the spotting mechanics. In the two and a half years since I've been playing I've suffered massive damage from CV's twice only, and in both instances it happened to be a Shokaku. Still bear a special grudge against that ship. 😄

CV's also should not be invulnerable to fire and tankier than a Kremlin, but because they're always the last ship to die anyway, that hardly matters anymore.

With subs you are even less able to defend yourself than with CV's. I am a cruiser main so CV's usually pick on me less, but I've never felt so defenseless against a CV as I almost always do against subs. With planes you get some warning they're incoming, I can choose to angle against either the planes or the Slava 20 kms away (😂), and I can hope the Cleveland AA will change their mind about attacking me. A sub needs to respect NO ONE. Stay more than 2 kms away and you're invisible, no one even knows you're there.

Again, I am not saying one is worse than the other. Just interested to see which is actually and practicallly speaking more impactful.

I do agree with almost everything you say, and me making a statement doesn't really matter as both classes are now both broken and when they attack you it's equally impossible to fight back, but in my opinion because CVs are wayyyy faster around the map, they can be frustrating to everyone on the map, not only in the place where they operate, like subs are. But that is my opinion.

 

 

I totally agree that spotting is the single most broken thing about CVs, also because they are so fast and manouverable. In that same way, the reason why Subs are so broken now is because of the recent health buff and WG FFed up with the ping location warning of subs. End last year when subs were just glass cannons, they were not that big a thread. 3 hits from ASW and they were gone. Now they are like a Stealth BB with homing torps.

 

They should take homing torps away, drop the health back to last year's values and fix the Sub aquisition mechanic. Then balance out torp dmg on match end result statistics and the class will need skills to be good with while they have their unique play style. I think that would be a good start. Then take away CV spotting and we finally be on a road to a decent Naval action game.

[SolanumTuberosumRex]

25 minutes ago, FukushuNL said:

They should take homing torps away, drop the health back to last year's values and fix the Sub aquisition mechanic. Then balance out torp dmg on match end result statistics and the class will need skills to be good with while they have their unique play style. I think that would be a good start. Then take away CV spotting and we finally be on a road to a decent Naval action game.

I can agree that if they did that, it would be a lot more tolerable. But we both know that's never gonna happen because the losers who currently play subs would abandon them like they were on fire, because actual skill would now be required to achieve anything. And that would mean that no one would play them.

Expect more buffs instead.

[The_Angry_Admiral]

The ultimate problem with submarines is Wargaming is trying to shoe horn a lone wolf ship into an arcade style game and it's not going to work no matter what they do. If they actually implemented ships with the proper anti sub gear the subs would be dead almost straight away but if they make subs too tough then we have what we have now which doesn't work. 

 

The concept itself is not going to work no matter what. What subs would excel in is a 3 to 4 person operation mode where you hunt down ships in a pack. 

[The_Angry_Admiral]

Doesn't matter when you get two of both in this Tier VI to VIII game.

 

 

[Spellfire40]

On 5/10/2022 at 10:39 AM, FukushuNL said:

So you would say a sub taking half the match to get one ship spotted is more annoying than a ship that takes 30 seconds to spot you? And a ship that is for all intends and purposes immune to attacks and is not affected by mountains and other obstacles. 

 

I understand that if anywhere in the match you are the target of the current itteration of a sub that is super frustrating, but that means ship everywhere else are at least safe for the forseeable time. With a CV, when you are targeted and blown out of the water by concentrated fire, one of your teammates is getting harrassed in the next 30 seconds and the one after in 30 seconds more.

 

But yeah, the new subs might as well be invincible as I saw that multiple runs of ASW doesn't kill it and the ping notification springs up randomly. So in that way, they are as uncatchable as a CV camping on the other side of the map.

Nah im saying if you charge a DD in a smoke cloud and maneged to tordobeat and lost 60% hp by gunfires from other direction there shouldnt be a " screw you" mechanic to make him vanish and get out of trobble when you finally got him. Maybe that i didnt understand sub mechanics and if that the case thats on WG. You shoudnt need to play something you dont want to learn how to conter it or learn its limitations. I was in Beta i loved the old RTS CVs but even i could see that 2 partys playing 2 diferent games dont makes good gameplay. Thats still true with CVs now and its especally true with subs. The problem is less what they do but you do not easyly undertand or interact in a meningfull way to have a impact.

 

I had games were i charged a sub and it just vanished  and showed up 3 min later geting past a CL and 2 DDs trying to deep charge it near our sides CV. Even a minekaze would not be able to just slip past a spoting force that easyly. I had other games were my 2edarys and 2 airstikes just murdered a T10 sub comppared to one chucking be for 60%+ of Hp in a single salvo in a BB. Also some ships do not have any conterplay others than hoping to he shell it? really ? even the worst AA has some shotgun waving soldiers on board