IJN Light cruiser line in roadmap

[Port_Authority]

I am a huge fan of IJN CL.

 

If you look at existing premium ships, they differ in one big thing - Yahagi can't carry ASM0. The guns float hard above 10-12 km and shell performance is mediocre. Yahagi and Yubari don't have the same playstyle, primarily because guns on Yahagi are weak for its tier, so you have to play on speed, flanking, stealth and torpedoes.

 

Yubari is a classic CL that can position behind islands, light fires, provide AP damage on broadsides, ambush DD etc. It is the most satisfying gunnery of all T4 light cruisers due to pin point precision of guns. Yahagi is an oversized torpedo boat.

 

I would very much like if the line goes to Yubari territory with consistent gunnery as opposed to having overbuffed torpedo gimmick - that thing is already on the Pan Asians.

Also what I would like to mention is if they don't give them OP AA, the playstyle is largely worthless. There isn't much USN CL on high tiers on EU at least these days, because it requires hugging a position and then the fun police comes for you. Yubari got killed hard in the rework, lost its AA power and now it's easy fish even for T4 carriers.

 

[invicta2012]

3 hours ago, Spellfire40 said:

Looks like a Superheavy Yubari  

Or an CL Furutaka. That's a fun idea, with the twin turrets where the single 203mms guns used to go on Furutaka's A Hull. And given that Japanese cruisers were able to drop a twin 203mm where a triple 155mm had been, you'd hope WG would have the nous to see the potential of an Aoba/Tone spin off, as well.

[Spellfire40]

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Or an CL Furutaka. That's a fun idea, with the twin turrets where the single 203mms guns used to go on Furutaka's A Hull. And given that Japanese cruisers were able to drop a twin 203mm where a triple 155mm had been, you'd hope WG would have the nous to see the potential of an Aoba/Tone spin off, as well.

Setup wise sure thogh it looks like Yubaris/kotoris  140mm Turets thoght any senseble 150mm+ would look more like The Agano design.

[COPlUM]

16 hours ago, SV_Kompresor said:

They're gonna kill mogami by the looks of it. Great job wg, great job.

Alternatively, they make 155mm mogami a premium and you get a free premium, but only the 155 variant, the one many people love. That would be very nice of them, they did this before with ships that no longer fit anywhere in the tech tree.

[Estaca_de_Bares]

17 hours ago, SV_Kompresor said:

They're gonna kill mogami by the looks of it. Great job wg, great job.

15 hours ago, Viridem said:

I don't think they'll touch Mogami and her 155mm. We'll still be able to play her. She is beloved, but not overly played, nor OP.

Ooyodo had 155mm guns as well. Since they will very obviously add non-historical ships (maybe one or two historical ones...), one could assume that they'll add a Ooyodo with torps (which she didn't have).

As she was, I think she'd fit tier VI. Add torps, and we might have a tier VII.

 

Besides, "their torpedo launchers will have wide aiming angles ", which is not the case of the Mogami. We're pretty sure that she won't be moved to the new line.

 

We'll see, anything could happen...

1 hour ago, COPlUM said:

Alternatively, they make 155mm mogami a premium and you get a free premium, but only the 155 variant, the one many people love. That would be very nice of them, they did this before with ships that no longer fit anywhere in the tech tree.

Since the main point of contention seems to be what happens with Mogami, I've checked out the wikipedia articles about the class as a whole and those of each individual ship (Mogami, Mikuma, Suzuya and Kumano). IMO, a sort of sensible compromise could be making Mogami a premium that keeps the choice of turrets, substitute her with, say, Mikuma (same subclass) in the CA role (203mm only) and make either Suzuya or Kumano a silver ship for the CL line (155mm only)... although the latter part appears to be a bit unrealistic considering WG's statements of wanting wider torpedo angles for the CLs, as Viridem pointed out, and having already chosen the calibres for each tier. Anyway, my idea would imply having two T8 IJN CA premiums to choose from: Mogami if you wish a "versatile" trainer for both branches, or Atago as a "less kiter than silver line" CA.

 

But, of course, all the moot will come to nothing in the end, for WG will (obviously) do what they know best...

 

Salute.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

On 5/5/2022 at 8:28 AM, SV_Kompresor said:

I find it highly unlikely that WG would leave a light cruiser in a heavy cruiser line. I really hope that they do, but I doubt it. 

 

But.. isn't Mogami a heavy cruiser?

[SV_Kompresor]

1 minute ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

But.. isn't Mogami a heavy cruiser?

Not if you use 155mm guns.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 minute ago, SV_Kompresor said:

Not if you use 155mm guns.

 

I'm a little puzzled, because that is the guns the Mogami was equipped with.. 15.5 3rd year type... and it's listed under IJN heavy cruisers.

[Spellfire40]

6 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

But.. isn't Mogami a heavy cruiser?

Not the 155mm version. Heavy cruiser is defined by caliber of the guns not tonage. Town class and clevlands are not smaller than comparable 8 inch cruisers. that dont makes them heavy cruisers.

[SV_Kompresor]

3 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

I'm a little puzzled, because that is the guns the Mogami was equipped with.. 15.5 3rd year type... and it's listed under IJN heavy cruisers.

They were built as 155 light cruisers with the ability to quickly be upgraded to 203 heavy cruisers once the treaty was abandoned.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

6 minutes ago, Spellfire40 said:

Not the 155mm version. Heavy cruiser is defined by caliber of the guns not tonage. Town class clevlands are not smaller than comparable 8 inch cruisers. 

 

But Mogami, Mikuma and Suzuya were all equipped with these guns... at least originally. Apparently Mogami was refitted with 20.3 guns in 1942-1943 1939-40.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

7 minutes ago, Spellfire40 said:

Not the 155mm version. Heavy cruiser is defined by caliber of the guns not tonage. Town class clevlands are not smaller than comparable 8 inch cruisers. 

 

5 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

They were built as 155 light cruisers with the ability to quickly be upgraded to 203 heavy cruisers once the treaty was abandoned.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Apparently Mogami, Kumano and the others were all refitted, and actually I might have misread the dates, so the guns were upgraded in 1939-40.

 

A Mogami with 203 mm guns.. any thoughts?

[Spellfire40]

6 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

But Mogami, Mikuma and Suzuya were all equipped with these guns... at least originally. Apparently Mogami was refitted with 20.3 guns in 1942-1943.

Because of the resticions of the Naval treatys on 8 inch cruisers thats the only reson that the 155mm were installed in the 1st place. Well they served decently after the update to 8 inch on the Yamatos and Oyodo

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 minute ago, Spellfire40 said:

Because of the resticions of the Naval treatys on 8 inch cruisers thats the only reson that the 155mm were installed in the 1st place. Well they served decently after the update to 8 inch on the Yamatos and Oyodo

 

I just wish the guns would work to the same parameters on Yamato as well.

[Pikkozoikum]

On 5/5/2022 at 11:37 AM, 2Cheesy said:

Why are so many negative.

 

Finally I will have the 2 versions of the Mogami in my port (at the same time). I see it as a positive. Something have wanted for a long time.

 

(PS. I still want the Fuso with the A-hull back in the game. Still don't understand why it isn't in the game again)

I think it's somehow people only see negative aspects. I think you could do an event, where people lose 100 dubloons and then get 200 dubloons and people would complain about losing 100 dubloons^^

[Pikkozoikum]

19 hours ago, Port_Authority said:

I am a huge fan of IJN CL.

 

If you look at existing premium ships, they differ in one big thing - Yahagi can't carry ASM0. The guns float hard above 10-12 km and shell performance is mediocre. Yahagi and Yubari don't have the same playstyle, primarily because guns on Yahagi are weak for its tier, so you have to play on speed, flanking, stealth and torpedoes.

 

Yubari is a classic CL that can position behind islands, light fires, provide AP damage on broadsides, ambush DD etc. It is the most satisfying gunnery of all T4 light cruisers due to pin point precision of guns. Yahagi is an oversized torpedo boat.

 

I would very much like if the line goes to Yubari territory with consistent gunnery as opposed to having overbuffed torpedo gimmick - that thing is already on the Pan Asians.

Also what I would like to mention is if they don't give them OP AA, the playstyle is largely worthless. There isn't much USN CL on high tiers on EU at least these days, because it requires hugging a position and then the fun police comes for you. Yubari got killed hard in the rework, lost its AA power and now it's easy fish even for T4 carriers.

 

I think the IJN CL will be different from premium CLs

[BruceRKF]

I am not really looking forward to this new tech tree, for two main reasons:

1. Mostly paper or fictional ships (two real ones at most)

2. 155 mm Mogami will be gone, at least at tier 8. The best we can hope for is a premium 155 mm Mogami class cruiser at tier 8.

 

My prediction: Agano will be at tier 5, some 8-gun version of it at tier 6 (I have seen mentioned that there were some historical plans for such a thing), then a 155 mm Mogami class cruiser at tier 7, but without the CA plating, HE pen or good concealment of the current tier 8 version, likely also with worse reload. Tier 8 plus is probably gonna be some sort of WG fiction.

Oyodo is a possibility at tier 7, but I find it very unlikely, since she is barely larger than the Agano class and only has 6 guns, all mounted at the bow, and no torpedoes. Granted, they could add torpedoes instead of the floatplanes, but I'd rather have the actual Oyodo as a premium at some point and not some Frankenstein version of it with artificially improved stats.

 

Overall, not excited about those news.

[Panocek]

44 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

A Mogami with 203 mm guns.. any thoughts?

She's older than coal with such config in game

[Karasu_Browarszky]

54 minutes ago, Panocek said:

She's older than coal with such config in game

 

No, newer. By about 4 to 5 years. Also, those are oil fired burners. Perhaps you are thinking about Mogami (1908)?

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

She's older than coal with such config in game

Indeed. Maya got her slow reload from 203mm Moggie, it's slower than Myoko and a complete downgrade.  Not much fun. 

 

1 hour ago, BruceRKF said:

I am not really looking forward to this new tech tree, for two main reasons:

1. Mostly paper or fictional ships (two real ones at most)

2. 155 mm Mogami will be gone, at least at tier 8. The best we can hope for is a premium 155 mm Mogami class cruiser at tier 8.

 

My prediction: Agano will be at tier 5, some 8-gun version of it at tier 6 (I have seen mentioned that there were some historical plans for such a thing), then a 155 mm Mogami class cruiser at tier 7, but without the CA plating, HE pen or good concealment of the current tier 8 version, likely also with worse reload. Tier 8 plus is probably gonna be some sort of WG fiction.

Oyodo is a possibility at tier 7, but I find it very unlikely, since she is barely larger than the Agano class and only has 6 guns, all mounted at the bow, and no torpedoes. Granted, they could add torpedoes instead of the floatplanes, but I'd rather have the actual Oyodo as a premium at some point and not some Frankenstein version of it with artificially improved stats

Well, we should tell WG loudly and frequently that...

 

The 155mm version of Mogami should be available as Premium/Special ship if it's not staying in the IJN CL line and should be *given* to anyone with it unlocked, like GK/Kirov.

If they are removing the 155mm version of Mogami but keeping the 203mm then they need to have a good look at it, cause it's not much fun to play.

 

I hope they don't get too inspired by Yahagi because the ship is a dog - other than her torpedoes she has absolutely nothing to recommend her, most definitely *not* the guns, which are dreadful. I'm more into with a torpedo cruiser idea with good torp range and firing angles, and existing IJN hulls with CL guns and a bit more wiggle in the rudder shift. That will be just fine. 

[hgbn_dk]

1 hour ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

I'm a little puzzled, because that is the guns the Mogami was equipped with.. 15.5 3rd year type... and it's listed under IJN heavy cruisers.

Real world classification of light and heavy cruisers. All cruisers armed with 175 mm and above is heavy cruisers and all below that threshold is light cruisers

[Karasu_Browarszky]

29 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Indeed. Maya got her slow reload from 203mm Moggie, it's slower than Myoko and a complete downgrade.  Not much fun. 

 

Well, we should tell WG loudly and frequently that...

 

The 155mm version of Mogami should be available as Premium/Special ship if it's not staying in the IJN CL line and should be *given* to anyone with it unlocked, like GK/Kirov.

If they are removing the 155mm version of Mogami but keeping the 203mm then they need to have a good look at it, cause it's not much fun to play.

 

I hope they don't get too inspired by Yahagi because the ship is a dog - other than her torpedoes she has absolutely nothing to recommend her, most definitely *not* the guns, which are dreadful. I'm more into with a torpedo cruiser idea with good torp range and firing angles, and existing IJN hulls with CL guns and a bit more wiggle in the rudder shift. That will be just fine. 

 

Perhaps the optimal solution would be to make Mogami a premium/special ship (free for those who have it unlocked) with two gun options that you can freely choose from...

 

21 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said:

Real world classification of light and heavy cruisers. All cruisers armed with 175 mm and above is heavy cruisers and all below that threshold is light cruisers

 

... so you can play it either as a treaty 'light cruiser' with the original armament or as a heavy cruiser with the 203's.

[hgbn_dk]

1 minute ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

 

... so you can play it either as a treaty 'light cruiser' with the original armament or as a heavy cruiser with the 203's.

Basically yes they was launched as light cruisers. 

[hgbn_dk]

Fun fact the 155mm turrets was literally lifted off the Mogami's and put on Yamato and Musashi as secondary armament 

[Viridem]

I gave it some thoughts and here's my predictions:

 

I think the line will almost entirely be of imaginary designs. Fairly evident is the 150mm dual purpose gun, which never existed.

The 150mm guns on tier VIII+ ships will benefit from 1/5th HE pen like the 152mm and 155mm guns at these tiers. The HE will hit hard, but the guns will turn and shoot slow for guns this caliber, in classic Japanese fashion.

They will be inspired by German 150mm. Only them built guns this side, and Germany did send technology to Japan during the war (like Ro-500).

The ships will follow the "oversized DD" design of the other Japanese CLs (Yuubari, Yahagi,  Tenryuu in a way), instead of the one they adopted for their CAs. Now I'm not sure what they will do with torpedoes, as centerline launcher and large launch arcs are incompatible when you don't have the very thin hull of a DD. It's quite possible they will put them on the sides and exposed on the deck, like on the Kitakami.

Ships will be balanced in part around consumables, with access to things like speed boost and torpedo reload booster. No smoke, no radar.

Another balancing factor will be an emphasis on other utilities, namely AA and ASW, rather than pure raw damage.

Adding a line with tools to counter, even partially, the very controversial sumbarines and CVs could help appease part of the playerbase and allow WG to proceed with their shenanigans for a while longer.

 

While there is a precedent with the german DDs, I really don't think they will remove the 155mm option from the Mogami. It's not impossible that they will, but I think you might be overeacting a little bit. For now.

The two lines will be much more different than the German DD lines, so there will be less incentive to remove the guns. Plus, these guns are the number one reason to play Mogami, and I don't remember that it was as much the case with the German DDs. If I remember correctly.

 

As for the kind of ships we will get at each tier:

-Tier V: Agano. We already have Yahagi, but Agano would be a "fixed" version of it, maybe a "good" version if we're lucky. Yahagi sells wouldn't drop, as you can't really go below zero.

-Tier VI: "Super-Agano". Project C-44, which was supposed to be an Agano with an additional turret.

-Tier VII: A variation on the Ooyodo, with her hangar and catapults replaced with 1-2 turrets, 1-2 torpedo launcher, and the usual small catapults. A bit like this.

-Tier VIII+: No idea. I picture triple 150mm mounts, but that's pretty much it.

-Premium: Ooyodo as a tier V or VI hybrid cruiser. Maybe they'll give her her historical dive bombers?

 

Anyway, with Maya, Iwami probably coming out this year, Yamagiri and Satsuma, this new line and a possible premium that will acompany it, that could make eleven new Japanese ships in a year.

Could this be the most content this nation got in a year since the launch of the game (excluding the times they added a billion copies of Kongou and Myoukou)?

 

Either way, I have tons of elite commander XP to grind.