L. Tarigo, what's people experinces so far?

[ColonelPete]

8 minutes ago, RuruushuVuiBuritania said:

Thankfully, the same list shows that the Italian DDs are perfectly balanced! Case closed. Otherwise, thank you for repeating what I said in a slower manner for the people in the back.

I have no idea what you consider to be perfectly balanced. If you just go by the numbers, then that would probably apply to Subs too...

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

I have no idea what you consider to be perfectly balanced. If you just go by the numbers, then that would probably apply to Subs too...

My motto is ''Numbers don't lie, but liars know how to count.'' That applies pretty well to subs and WG's desire to include them.

Besides the point: opinions are subjective and numbers can be explained subjectively to serve one's point. Most important thing about a game is to enjoy it and play well if you are playing a multiplayer game.

[GulvkluderGuld]

3 hours ago, RuruushuVuiBuritania said:

The Italian destroyers should be an example for all future lines. It takes skill to make them work at their full potential, and they are rather fun without being broken.

I agree.

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

They just increase the gap between skilled and unskilled players further. The gap is big enough already.

And I consider them a bigger threat to DD than the FR DD.

 

A more traditional setup with normal AP/HE or maybe changed SAP mechanic would have been better.

I consider Tarigo well-balanced around the bad concealment and the quite low dpm and range. My overall T7 DD stats is proof of that too.

It relies on a 14 point captain with CE + RPF to be considered playable, and dispersion and damage saturation means 4-5k volleys are unlikely outside the initial volleys.
Even then, it relies on enemy dds mispositioning or dont respect its potential trading power and so end up in isolated 1v1s.

In open water with multiple but even amounts of friendlies and enemies around like 12v12, it is at a disadvantage to other dds.

 

Cant speak to the other tiers as I've not played with or against them. 

As for the concept of high alpha dmg, the same gameplay concept exists in the game among cruisers. Zao is a prime exampe of a high alpha strike "poke" style trader. 

 

[ColonelPete]

19 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

I agree.

I consider Tarigo well-balanced around the bad concealment and the quite low dpm and range. My overall T7 DD stats is proof of that too.

It relies on a 14 point captain with CE + RPF to be considered playable, and dispersion and damage saturation means 4-5k volleys are unlikely outside the initial volleys.
Even then, it relies on enemy dds mispositioning or dont respect its potential trading power and so end up in isolated 1v1s.

In open water with multiple but even amounts of friendlies and enemies around like 12v12, it is at a disadvantage to other dds.

 

Cant speak to the other tiers as I've not played with or against them. 

As for the concept of high alpha dmg, the same gameplay concept exists in the game among cruisers. Zao is a prime exampe of a high alpha strike "poke" style trader. 

 

I play them without RPF and they work fine.

And unless someone mispositions their RM DD, they work well against other DD.

If you have one friendly in gun range of the target and the target dares to shoot, you can farm him. Especially dangerous vs DD without smoke.

[GulvkluderGuld]

59 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I play them without RPF and they work fine.

And unless someone mispositions their RM DD, they work well against other DD.

Might work without RPF but it makes it alot easier to pick fights and disengage without errors.

Tarigo plays on a slim margin, it might not work if you meet someone of your own skill.

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If you have one friendly in gun range of the target and the target dares to shoot, you can farm him. Especially dangerous vs DD without smoke.

This has been a feature of DD combat since the beginning of WoWs so what is your point?

Bad players might make that sort of mistake.

Good players will keep Tarigo permaspotted while making sure to stay out of detection range themselves, then target ping it for the cruiser gang and force it to retreat and be utterly useless. 

[ColonelPete]

28 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

This has been a feature of DD combat since the beginning of WoWs so what is your point?

Bad players might make that sort of mistake.

Good players will keep Tarigo permaspotted while making sure to stay out of detection range themselves, then target ping it for the cruiser gang and force it to retreat and be utterly useless. 

The vanish button is not a feature since the beginning of WoWs.

RM DD concealment is not that bad that one can evade them without fail. 

When one gets spotted and does not shoot, then RM DD can farm one for free.

[GulvkluderGuld]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

The vanish button is not a feature since the beginning of WoWs.

Playing around & taking advantage of smoke vs no smoke / smoke on cd has been in Wows since the beginning. 

If you preposition to kite away, normal smoke breaks contact and allows farming just as fast as the "vanish button".

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RM DD concealment is not that bad that one can evade them without fail. 

When one gets spotted and does not shoot, then RM DD can farm one for free.

Only the already bad DDs cant evade and they're bad because their concealment suck.

IJN, royal navy and stronger premiums like Haida and Z39 and especially DDs with 6,0 or below can evade Tarigo forever if played properly (includes most higher tier DDs).

Blysca, Leningrad have similar bad concealment and cannot,  which is why I mentioned earlier Tarigo works well against those.  Gadjah cant torp DDs and is vulnerable to Yolo plays if it smokes.

Other DDs with less than 6,5 can still take evasive action and smoke or at least angle, to make SAP ineffective untill smoked.

 

TL;DR very stealthy DDs hardcounters Tarigo, medium stealth dds can nullify it and bad concealment dds have it tough and might get free farmed as you say (but arnt designed to be played this way).

Seems pretty balanced to me? 

[ColonelPete]

5 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Playing around & taking advantage of smoke vs no smoke / smoke on cd has been in Wows since the beginning. 

If you preposition to kite away, normal smoke breaks contact and allows farming just as fast as the "vanish button".

One is not in that position all the time.

5 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

IJN, royal navy and stronger premiums like Haida and Z39 and especially DDs with 6,0 or below can evade Tarigo forever if played properly (includes most higher tier DDs).

Blysca, Leningrad have similar bad concealment and cannot,  which is why I mentioned earlier Tarigo works well against those.  Gadjah cant torp DDs and is vulnerable to Yolo plays if it smokes.

Other DDs with less than 6,5 can still take evasive action and smoke or at least angle, to make SAP ineffective untill smoked.

 

TL;DR very stealthy DDs hardcounters Tarigo, medium stealth dds can nullify it and bad concealment dds have it tough and might get free farmed as you say (but arnt designed to be played this way).

Seems pretty balanced to me? 

No, they cannot, since the vast majority is slower.

People have tried that vs the FR DD, still got caught. Tarigo is even faster.

[GulvkluderGuld]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

One is not in that position all the time.

Stealthy DDs will be unless they're bad players. They have enough time. See my post above.

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

No, they cannot, since the vast majority is slower.

People have tried that vs the FR DD, still got caught. Tarigo is even faster.

Yes they can, since speed doesnt matter in a the vast majority of situations. Those where the stealthy DD has a cruiser and a couple BBs behind them. Only concealment matter in those.

Are you basing your opinion on overextended 45% unicums you meet in randoms? I dont see any other reason to mention FR dds. Thats how FR dds suicide all the time. They're especially easy to deal if you have a smoke screen. 

[ColonelPete]

51 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Stealthy DDs will be unless they're bad players. They have enough time. See my post above.

Then I haver seen a non-bad player in the game. Not even 65%+ solo WR players do that all the time.

[GulvkluderGuld]

11 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Then I haver seen a non-bad player in the game. Not even 65%+ solo WR players do that all the time.

Doesnt mean the ship is not able to do it. Good players sometimes take chances or maybe they have not yet learned to respect the new line or the player and make a mistake. I do that fairly often if i dont recognize the clantag and I also kick 65% players back to port quite often because they don't respect my clantag and take chances. 500 m is plenty time to turn, then drop smoke if needed. even bow in its more than sufficient to slow and smoke at least.

 

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

500 m is plenty time to turn, then drop smoke if needed. even bow in its more than sufficient to slow and smoke at least.

It is not, when you look at your turning circle and remember that the enemy is moving towards you at high speed.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

It is not, when you look at your turning circle and remember that the enemy is moving towards you at high speed.

Think you misread my post:

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

 even bow in its more than sufficient to slow and smoke at least.

 

 

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Think you misread my post:

 

Nope.

[SodaBubbles]

 

LOL. Just got out of yet another Tarigo game in coop in which 6 torp hits on a T7 BB left it with plenty of health. 

I am not looking forward to the T8 and T9 grind. 

[GulvkluderGuld]

8 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Nope.

Was being polite. You did misread it. Whether deliberately or not i cannot say.

8 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

It is not, when you look at your turning circle and remember that the enemy is moving towards you at high speed.

Turning circle is irrelevant to making a full emergiency stop and smoke up asap.

So yes, 500 m is plenty to be safe with proper play.

[ColonelPete]

3 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Was being polite. You did misread it. Whether deliberately or not i cannot say.

Still Nope.

3 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Turning circle is irrelevant to making a full emergiency stop and smoke up asap.

So yes, 500 m is plenty to be safe with proper play.

When you do not turn, turning circle is indeed irrelevant. Thank you for noticing.

I did not think it was necessary to point out that it is not always a good idea to come to a full stop inside smoke in front of a fast DD racing towards you.

[GulvkluderGuld]

 

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When you do not turn, turning circle is indeed irrelevant. Thank you for noticing.

I did not think it was necessary to point out that it is not always a good idea to come to a full stop inside smoke in front of a fast DD racing towards you.

You're being more categorical than I can agree with. 

Unless one is fatally overextended, I can think of plenty of tactical situations where coming to a stop and smoking asap would be the best possible choice - followed by turning at 1/4 speed inside the smoke and withdrawing if required. Even if the charging DD knows your torpedoes are on cooldown, smoking up might be better than taking a losing gunfight since torps might come back up before the DD closes. Especially if you RPF so you can preposition to torp him and maybe even dodge his torps (against french DDs, since those are the only ones apart from extinct khaba with that playstyle).

If the charging DD mounts radar/hydro and you end up bow to bow with it anyway, you made a positional mistake and deserve the consequences.

[lup3s]

18 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

 

LOL. Just got out of yet another Tarigo game in coop in which 6 torp hits on a T7 BB left it with plenty of health. 

I am not looking forward to the T8 and T9 grind. 

 

Iirc the torpedoes have 10k alpha, so what do you expect ?

[Ashleyphotog]

On 4/29/2022 at 3:23 PM, GulvkluderGuld said:

 

You're being more categorical than I can agree with. 

Unless one is fatally overextended, I can think of plenty of tactical situations where coming to a stop and smoking asap would be the best possible choice - followed by turning at 1/4 speed inside the smoke and withdrawing if required. Even if the charging DD knows your torpedoes are on cooldown, smoking up might be better than taking a losing gunfight since torps might come back up before the DD closes. Especially if you RPF so you can preposition to torp him and maybe even dodge his torps (against french DDs, since those are the only ones apart from extinct khaba with that playstyle).

If the charging DD mounts radar/hydro and you end up bow to bow with it anyway, you made a positional mistake and deserve the consequences.

don't converse with the guy, his only aim is to be right about everything,  He thinks it makes him look good in everyone's eyes.

[GulvkluderGuld]

1 hour ago, Ashleyphotog said:

don't converse with the guy, his only aim is to be right about everything,  He thinks it makes him look good in everyone's eyes.

Thanks for the advice. I know what he is like - been posting here since game launch it was just one of those times I felt the need to give him enough rope to hang. Worked admirably as he seems to have given up/admitted he lost the argument 

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Thanks for the advice. I know what he is like - been posting here since game launch it was just one of those times I felt the need to give him enough rope to hang. Worked admirably as he seems to have given up/admitted he lost the argument 

You just made a pointless post that was not worth commenting on as you were just telling us that sometimes some tactics work in some situations, which is a no brainer...

[GulvkluderGuld]

38 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You just made a pointless post that was not worth commenting on as you were just telling us that sometimes some tactics work in some situations, which is a no brainer...

then you agree 500 m is plenty to avoid detection by coming to a full stop, but you only wanted to point out it might not be a good solution depending on the tactical situation?

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

then you agree 500 m is plenty to come avoid detection by coming to a full stop, but you only wanted to point out it might not be a good solution depending on the tactical situation?

It is in some situations. The same way that 100m is enough in some situations.

But it is not enough to turn, as you orginally stated, and a full stop is not the blanked solution to everything.

[GulvkluderGuld]

17 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

It is in some situations. The same way that 100m is enough in some situations.

Bow to Bow, I dont there are any situations where it isn't enough, since french DD dont mount smokescreens.

Maybe I'm biased because i'm used to playing small DDs with speedboost so I've forgotten the bigger german/russians might take a bit longer to slow and thus can get spotted. Those also outgun or outgimmick the Tarigo though.

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But it is not enough to turn, as you orginally stated, and a full stop is not the blanked solution to everything.

I never stated that. This is what i stated:

On 4/28/2022 at 7:45 PM, GulvkluderGuld said:

500 m is plenty time to turn, then drop smoke if needed. even bow in its more than sufficient to slow and smoke at least.

 

There is a punctuation. The intent was to say that:

1) Closing at an oblique angle, it will often be possible to turn away and get into a kiting position before the Tarigo gets close enough to detect whatever DD we are talking about. Then you do have a "instant vanish" button too.

2) if meeting bow to bow, at least you can emergiency slow+smoke (Then 1/4 turn inside smoke and bug out if needed)

Excluding examples of mispositions so bad it doesnt matter what you do.

Full stop is often the a good solution when you mispositioned, especially in slow DDs.