Sumbarine counterplay.

[Ryuuteimaru]

Just like CV's there is no counter, only if the Sub player is stupid will they die it's that simple.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

I'll want a copy of 'Submarine Counterplay', thank you.

 

Should fit in nicely with the 'Great English Lovers' in my collection.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I've killed plenty of subs last two weeks, but it was never 'cool' or exciting, always a dull lame experience mostly by the sub being sub par or being forced to surface to bad diving capacity managment. Most of the time I was forced into very bad positions after the kill due to subs simply being way too fast under water. The few times I was killed by subs was both times by the sub player abusing the dolphin tactic and shotgunning me in the face from point blank range while trying to catch up with them hunting, because the subs are again, way too fast underwater and also poorly coded horsepoo.

 

It's bad gameplay design is what it is.

[Redcap375]

Bad game design and they should have cut their losses ages ago.

 

They feel like they have spent too much time and money to go back...fools really.

 

 

 

 

[BrusilovX]

7 hours ago, Europizza said:

because the subs are again, way too fast underwater and also poorly coded horsepoo

My understanding is that in WWII submarines were only ever good in ambushes with most warships simply being too fast.   They were very slow underwater as well.

 

If they are going to be in the game they belong in a separate mode - convoy ambush for example where the convoy needs to force it's way through to an exit point.  If players not in submarines want to join they can do so and be part of the convoy escort.  However, submarines should be prevented from joining all other modes.

 

I'd suggest that they could appear in an Operation but since WG has still to add Cherry Blossum and Dunkirk back in after they were removed for the CV rework I guess that is asking for too much.

[SolanumTuberosumRex]

On 4/26/2022 at 11:04 AM, Yedwy said:

Well looks like next update I am finally dropping Randoms and any other PVP mode containing subs, the latest “counterplay” design takes it a bridge 2 far… 

Subs are hard to deal with even in co-op.

[Montrala]

Yesterday I was playing Z-46 on Greece and at the start of the battle I got into center cap, then I followed around island plan was to smoke, hydro and kill DD, since no radars were in play. But I found more that I bargained for. There was DD sure, but I found myself superunicum player (no irony there) in U-2501 on surface and rage clouded my mind. I started shooting, charged in, parked on top of him, when submerged. I went down (as I go focused by most of red team), but between some HE hits, 20 depth charge hits and flood he went down. I think T9 DD for T10 sub played by superunicum was a good trade, as my team won this battle.

 

I hope sub player had fun and engaging experience! I certainly did and smashing G-key (actually it was / key as I have it remapped) was very satisfying

[GoneFishingAgain]

HINDENBURG no airstrike against subs - WTF???

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, GoneFishingAgain said:

HINDENBURG no airstrike against subs - WTF???

Nope just ship dropped poo. Because reasons.

[Bland_42]

18 minuti fa, Europizza ha scritto:

... reasons.

It's german, that's the reason.

Same for italian ones.

You know, WW2 stuff.

Because this is "not" a RU bias.

 

 

EDIT: I know that you know it, but was only to point out the obvious.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

4 minutes ago, Bland_42 said:

It's german, that's the reason.

Same for italian ones.

You know, WW2 stuff.

Because this is "not" a RU bias.

What did the dutch do to the ruskies in WW2 omg 

[CapnGebs]

Time to dust off the old T4 ships in port :)

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

Only played some Submarines so no expert, but it seems hilarious how broken they are and how useless the ASW really is ...... oh except for the CV ones (Duuuh) which are aimbotted automatically and always hits hard.

 

So as a surface ship player I thought airdropped ASW was so much better then ship dropped, but it's just an illusion. Only way to hit or kill a sub is if he gets hard spotted and you react directly and drop. Trying to kill a pinging sub with airdropped using that BS surface marker (if you even had time to see it) is impossible unless the sub players is asleep or just daft.

 

All you have to do in a sub is to shoot 3 torps (T10 German) towards the target, send a ping, then just snake back and forth towards him, he sends his ASW to the marker and is not even close. If he repairs to end ping you just wait out the time and repeat all things before. Since you move in a snake like pattern he will never hit you unless he can actually see you.

 

Heard one Sub guy saying that you should never use homing, just go with shotgun torps, and im starting to understand what he ment. Just go right thru the middle or the flank your spawned on, go as far as you can on surface then go to periscope, then when enemy dd is really close go 3 depth and go undetected under their line all the way to their backline using the battery reservs consumables then just park outside 2.1 km from a camping BB at periscope depth and blapp his arse with 6 torps, go deep come around when they reload and do the same. He will never know where you are.

 

Had a sad encounter with a Wooster (ship perfect for killing DDs and Subs) in the B cap. I sat at 3 depths about 3 km away from him using the detect surface radar thingy so I saw exactly where he was but he was totally unaware. When torps was reloaded I just surfaced at periscope depth 2.5 km away from him and killed him.

 

They only viable "Counterplay" against subs you have is the possibility its a glue eater driving the sub.

[Ubertron_X]

20 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

They only viable "Counterplay" against subs you have is the possibility its a glue eater driving the sub.

Glue eater here (T6 and T8): In between getting randomly spotted by CV, radar, hydro and enemy submarines as well as enemy players that apparently are all easily managing to dodge my torps no matter how many pings are on them and what kind of ship they use (I had 100 games in total BBs and even pinged enemy submarines dodge my torps) I get wrecked on a regular basis by BB ASW, especially if those BBs are clustered closely (2+ BBs + random spotting at an inopportune moment = usually ded). However I have to admit that I always try to be useful (spotting) and fight with the main fleet (overloading DCP), which might be a bad habit.

[COPlUM]

On 4/25/2022 at 9:06 PM, ChaosCosmos said:

Hindenburg, Des moines nose in

Hindenburg has bad air detection, this allows submarines to keep you spotted and farm you ad nauseum from periscope depth, it also has cuck bombs or "depth charges" instead of air strikes, so you can't do anything to the sub even if by some miracle it gets itself spotted.

Des Moines sit behind a rock, if carriers dropping you for 30K wasn't enough of a reason to stop doing that, now you got submarines surfacing on your forehead and shotgunning you.

Stop playing cruisers with bad air detection, stop playing cruisers with depth charges, stop playing cruisers that sit somewhere. If you want to play cruisers these days, play the ones that are always on the move, have good air detect and air strikes. There aren't many but there's a few, in Irian and Zao for example submarines are a non-issue.

Hindenburg is the premier example of a cruiser that's a port-queen now, horrible air detect and cuck bombs, all you can do is run away and cry. Just stop playing ships like this, why are you doing this to yourself. Adapt to meta, what was true yesterday is no longer true today, Irian was a joke compared to Mainz, now Mainz is a joke compared to Irian because Irian doesn't give a fck about submarines or plane spotting. Zao is unironically a better ship than hindenburg now because all Hindenburg can do in a submarine game is go sit in a corner and cry.

[COPlUM]

3 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

So as a surface ship player I thought airdropped ASW was so much better then ship dropped, but it's just an illusion. Only way to hit or kill a sub is if he gets hard spotted and you react directly and drop. Trying to kill a pinging sub with airdropped using that BS surface marker (if you even had time to see it) is impossible unless the sub players is asleep or just daft.

Nobody ever said drop air strikes on the marker, the marker is there to troll you, it's not even in the same timezone as the submarine, it doesn't tell you which direction it's going so you can't lead. If you drop your airstrikes on the marker you're trolling yourself. The only thing that works is air strikes and only if the submarine is spotted. But air strikes are superior to depth charges because with depth charges you can't do anything to a submarine in any scenario. Like the only way to do damage to a submarine in a cruiser with depth charges is ask the submarine nicely to please sit still somewhere and don't move, ask everyone on his team to please not shoot you while you charge into them for about 12km to go sit on their submarine. A good submarine player will also know which cruisers have cuck bombs and go after those cruisers because they can't do anything about it, not even in theory. So if you play stuff like Mainz not only can you not do anything about submarines killing you, you're also their favorite target because you're a free kill.

If you want to play cruisers in this era and have belfast, play it. It has the best air detection, radar, hydro and they gave it proper air strikes, submarine can't do anything to a belfast. WG decided belfast needs a buff so it's the only light cruiser with air strikes now. Based!

[Pukovnik7]

4 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

They only viable "Counterplay" against subs you have is the possibility its a glue eater driving the sub.

Fortunately, majority of submarine players spend their time with glue. Sniffing glue, eating glue, drinking glue, having sexual intercourse with glue... problem is precisely that submarines are BALANZZEED around these glue obsessed specials, and so end up being completely broken in hands of somebody who is a) competent and b) interested in playing a sub.

 

4 hours ago, Ubertron_X said:

Glue eater here (T6 and T8): In between getting randomly spotted by CV, radar, hydro and enemy submarines as well as enemy players that apparently are all easily managing to dodge my torps no matter how many pings are on them and what kind of ship they use (I had 100 games in total BBs and even pinged enemy submarines dodge my torps) I get wrecked on a regular basis by BB ASW, especially if those BBs are clustered closely (2+ BBs + random spotting at an inopportune moment = usually ded). However I have to admit that I always try to be useful (spotting) and fight with the main fleet (overloading DCP), which might be a bad habit.

I don't play submarines myself (yet), BUT what I have noticed: good submarine players will rarely or never ping before torping. Pings are purely psychological weapon, to distract the target and make less experienced / more idiotic players waste their damage control party. In other words, do not torp unless you know that target will not be able to evade even unguided torps. And with 2 km detection range, getting necessarily close should be easy.

 

Also bolded: that is actually where submarines are most useful at, and also most annoying. A dolphining submarine can keep everybody permaspotted with no danger to itself. Cue a backline camping snoozefest of a match.

[Ubertron_X]

14 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

I don't play submarines myself (yet), BUT what I have noticed: good submarine players will rarely or never ping before torping. Pings are purely psychological weapon, to distract the target and make less experienced / more idiotic players waste their damage control party. In other words, do not torp unless you know that target will not be able to evade even unguided torps. And with 2 km detection range, getting necessarily close should be easy.

Actually I found that finding an mostly stationary, unsuspecting target that does not at least have hydro to be very scarce (even BBs and there are a lot of Germans around). Which is why I see most of my torps launched from 6km or more. I freely admit that I have not yet the art of shotgunning yet, however if you do so your target absolutely needs to die else you will very probably find yourself within 2km assured hydro detection very soon.

[Bland_42]

3 ore fa, COPlUM ha scritto:

belfast needs a buff so it's the only light cruiser with air strikes now.

Weimar can have a different opinion about it.

[Adm_Lindemann]

On 4/25/2022 at 10:03 PM, Panocek said:

I'd hazard a guess WG guys aren't dumb, they perfectly know what they are doing. They also want their return on investment after spending three years hammering square peg into round hole

Yeah... although no one asked them to do it.

[Adm_Lindemann]

On 4/25/2022 at 10:10 PM, Shirakami_Kon said:

I mean, WG has discovered that the best income comes from the average potato that just jumps into the game and straight up pays the best ship where someone completely incompetent gets to grief the entire enemy team while completely protected himself because he hasn't learned how to even play yet. That was the whole point of the CV rework, so at the very least the worse player that doesn't even grasp to avoid flak gets at least a drop on anything and feels some acomplishment, and now we see an even more steamrollproof way of guaranteed time in the game no matter how much you suck in subs with how tanky they are, and how absolutely worthless these location indicators when they ping are. It's so you can't ruin the time of the scrub behind it.

 

WG's message to the playerbase all these last years is like "if you don't enjoy being a toxic griefer find another game, this is not for you anymore".

So, they invested 3 years of development into this sh!t instead of developing proper and mandatory tutorials for new players in 6 months... Seems like a good business.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:15 AM, Johnny_Moneto said:

Looks like there are two options: quit the game or play subs and CVs. If you consider the latter I'd suggest going for T4 carriers, run MMM to see how many games people played so far and then only attack newcomers. This way you are doing the game a big favour.

Yeah, send me more potato T4 CV players to have fun with in Yubari/Orion... Especially seems to act as a potato controlled planes magnet, considering I recently downed 28 planes in a battle without getting sunk by those two (!) CVs going after me exclusively until I sunk one of them and watched the other getting sunk a minute later by a teammate...

So.. maybe playing T4 in something else than in a CV might be a better advise?!?

 

On 4/26/2022 at 1:10 PM, Yedwy said:

All ships have deptcharges om hull except cvs and hybrids that surprise, surprise - have dc planes…

You mean they "should have DCs", right? As there's a couple ships right now that don't have DC or anti sub planes. Like Leone.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

On 4/27/2022 at 7:05 PM, Redcap375 said:

They feel like they have spent too much time and money to go back...fools really.

Must be some kind of a russian habit, I think...

[Itwastuesday]

13 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

You mean they "should have DCs", right? As there's a couple ships right now that don't have DC or anti sub planes. Like Leone.

Or the entire dutch cruiser line. Because they were obviously too good.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

2 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Or the entire dutch cruiser line. Because they were obviously too good.

yeah.. those strike planes are utterly OP...