[PETITION & POLL] WG is planning to move "Arms Race" battles into normal gaming (possibly even in upcoming WoWs v0.11.4) - please do not do that !!!

[Andrewbassg]

1 minute ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

I suppose one small glimmer of hope is that subs might get buffed so much by this mode that even WG may have to nerf their stats.

Comrade...you forget that shi.....hkhmm......vehicles  are carefully balans- ed for participation in 12vs12 randomes. Which doesn't include former special op...hkhmm.... game modes

[Nagine]

3 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

We've repeatedly asked for that. Been repeatedly turned down.

Are you sure it was repeated WHY that is needed?

 

4 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

You're absolutely right. But one of your premises is wrong. 

Which part, I wonder? If customers get what they want, they come back to get that again. I am not saying that customers always know themselves what they really want.

 

7 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

Be serious. Voluminous and detailed critiques of every bad decision are made long before it is implemented. 

 

A small correction - "Voluminous and detailed critiques of every decision made by WG are made long before it is implemented."

When was the last time WG was universally praised for a decision? I assume the playerbase of this game is not based solely on masochists, so there must be a few reasons why people still play it.

 

[SodaBubbles]

Just rotate Arms Race with Dirigible Derby and Convoy as alternative modes on a regular basis, the way operations rotate, at different tiers. Simple.

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

7 minutes ago, Nagine said:

Which part, I wonder?

Don't. Where Wedgie is called sane.

 

7 minutes ago, Nagine said:

When was the last time WG was universally praised for a decision? I assume the playerbase of this game is not based solely on masochists, so there must be a few reasons why people still play it.

Yeah well Wedgie is not the game, just like a girl is not her abusive  and alcoholic father, But one can still love the girl, right?

 

Otherwise when it did something good.  Hint absolutely nothing in the past 3 months....

[Nagine]

6 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Don't. Where Wedgie is called sane.

 

Yeah well Wedgie is not the game, just like a girl is not her abusive  and alcoholic father, But one can still love the girl, right?

 

Otherwise when it did something good.  Hint absolutely nothing in the past 3 months....

So the evil alcoholic father is responsible for all the girl's disadvantages and nature (or "fate") determines all the good stuff? I guess such viewpoint helps in extending unhealthy relationship, but it doesn't encourages the girl to improve :)

[SodaBubbles]

19 minutes ago, Nagine said:

Are you sure it was repeated WHY that is needed?

 

Yes, I am sure it was repeated. I have been on two different forums, 40K games, read the blog/facebook/etc since the end of closed beta. Players have repeatedly asked for the ability to decline a mode or map they don't like. The devs have held out the middle finger repeatedly. 

 

19 minutes ago, Nagine said:

 

Which part, I wonder? If customers get what they want, they come back to get that again. I am not saying that customers always know themselves what they really want.

 

The customers have in rich and varied and erudite prose, indicated exactly what they want. Entire encyclopedias were written on how to fix RTS CVs, and there was widespread agreement on things like getting rid of strafe. Nobody asked for rockets, or for AA to be gutted, etc. Those ideas were abusive and stupid. That is what I mean when I say the only motivation for this is malice. No other explanation for anything as idiotic as rockets is possible. 

 

19 minutes ago, Nagine said:

 

A small correction - "Voluminous and detailed critiques of every decision made by WG are made long before it is implemented."

When was the last time WG was universally praised for a decision? I assume the playerbase of this game is not based solely on masochists, so there must be a few reasons why people still play it.

 

I can think of LOTS of times praise was nigh-on universal. Enabling players to sell the stock parts of ships. The first edition of captain's points. The addition of Operations. The addition of additional modes like Bastion, Convoy, Dirigible Derby -- players may not like specific modes, but nobody has said additional modes are a bad idea. 

Meanwhile things that players have asked for, as simple as a CART in the premium shop up to and including new maps and operations, are neglected. Studiously, and with middle finger in the air. 

It sucks that this fabulous game was given to this group of devs that hates the player base so passionately. 

[CV_SUB_Report_Blacklist]

2 hours ago, ReDiR20 said:

That's only your opinion, so why should they exclude it? Pretty sure many, including me, support including Arms Race in randoms

the same to you .. this is only your opinion ...

 

this is just simply removing randoms and making arms race the new randoms ...

 

can we just have both of them seperated ?

 

like before ...

 

there is Randoms and players playing in it

and there is arms race and players playing in it 

 

unwanted merge ...

 

[ReDiR20]

3 minutes ago, BlueMerry said:

the same to you .. this is only your opinion ...

 

this is just simply removing randoms and making arms race the new randoms ...

 

can we just have both of them seperated ?

 

like before ...

 

there is Randoms and players playing in it

and there is arms race and players playing in it 

 

unwanted merge ...

 

 

I'm sure there is a reason why it's added not as separate mode. Likely too little players on each server at night or morning for MM to fill full teams. Separate modes are popular at first, probably not that much after a few months

 

And it seems that OP posted the same topic on reddit and got downvoted quit a lot. Not suprising. Most players want variety. If WG would not move forward we would still have the same old game which would be boring by now without subs, superships, hybrids and so on

[Asatori]

I don't have an issue with adding arms race tbh.

As long as it stays a rare game mode (<10% or something). 

As a rare game mode it is not that disruptive in my opinion and a nice change of pace.

Is Epicentre still going to be removed for this? That is something that isn't needed in my opinion.

Even though epicentre is not really everyone's favourite game mode, I again, have little issue with it, as long as it is not the dominant game mode. Again for variety reasons. 

[mcboernester]

whats the problem with arms race now? 

[De_Zeeuwse_Admiraliteit]

Honestly, the poll results are not surprising. A negative headline is likely to attract poll voters who think alike. Plus the fact that forum members are notorious for shitting on almost anything new WG brings up. There aren't many people who show up at forums to voice their opinion that alines with WG decisions, as they're already alined. No action needed in that case. I am not disregarding the opinions of forum members and their criticism of certain WG projects (like subs and CV's for example), but I am disregarding the validity of this poll specifically. It's not representative at all. 

[Nagine]

26 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

Yes, I am sure it was repeated. I have been on two different forums, 40K games, read the blog/facebook/etc since the end of closed beta. Players have repeatedly asked for the ability to decline a mode or map they don't like. The devs have held out the middle finger repeatedly. 

I only follow this forum, so can't talk about reddit etc. Also, I am sure that mode block feature was suggested here, but it was kind of hard to notice for a feature, which is constantly reminded/repeated...

 

30 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

The customers have in rich and varied and erudite prose, indicated exactly what they want. Entire encyclopedias were written on how to fix RTS CVs

Totally agree with that.

 

31 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

there was widespread agreement on things like getting rid of strafe. Nobody asked for rockets, or for AA to be gutted, etc. Those ideas were abusive and stupid. That is what I mean when I say the only motivation for this is malice. No other explanation for anything as idiotic as rockets is possible. 

However, disagree with that. There were many REPEATED complains that DDs and even cruisers are being gutted by rockets, CV players were even complaining about the OPness of flak clouds or mouse-click based AA priority. So perhaps the latter were simply more active and focused, so WG reacted to them, while not implementing bigger changes. When player suggestions contradict each other, there will always be someone disappointed.

 

36 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

I can think of LOTS of times praise was nigh-on universal. Enabling players to sell the stock parts of ships.

Good point - there indeed were no complaints about that, but, to be fair, it was mostly met with silence.

 

38 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

The first edition of captain's points. The addition of Operations. The addition of additional modes like Bastion, Convoy, Dirigible Derby -- players may not like specific modes, but nobody has said additional modes are a bad idea. 

Not so accurate - each addition of those evoked rage posts on forum. I am not trying to say that everyone was unhappy, but there were raging about unfairness, dumb mechanics, wasted resources, etc.

 

39 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

Meanwhile things that players have asked for, as simple as a CART in the premium shop up to and including new maps and operations, are neglected.

While the cart absence is indeed difficult to comprehend, absence of new maps and operations were even explained by WG itself - they doesn't pay, require significant resources, but evoke lots of anger (NO BALANS!!!)

 

 

To summarize this long post, the are rage posts in response to every patch, even if some specific features sometimes are accepted. Moreover, there are often contradicting suggestion (e.g., "CVs should be nerfed" vs. "CVs should be buffed"). So unless the complaint is focused (not just "stop it!"), explained (why something is an issue) and repeated, it is likely it will not be reacted to. Yet, we indeed have some paranormal cases of no cart in the shop...

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

41 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

whats the problem with arms race now? 

Putting it into random battle mode rotation and not keeping it separately I guess.

[ARE_YOU_HUMAN]

do you think they would listen? 

 

Group of DeVs rarely play their game (probably while drunk or hangover)

[Nagine]

35 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

whats the problem with arms race now? 

A few examples of the issues:

• It is forced.
• It is totally unrealistic.
• It ignores current bits of balance (e.g., heal ability for everyone, including superships).
• Some classes are extremely well suited for this mode (e.g. subs), which will be an issue if the team gets a player of this class who plays "just for fun" and doesn't care about no wins.
• One of the reasons why encounter didn't work was that many players couldn't switch to a different gameplay. For example, BBs continued camping in irrelevant spots that they were used to doing in "normal" modes.
• Stats will become even more irrelevant (and some players play for a chosen stat, like damage, only)
• Overload of information for some players (WAT, SOME SUPPLIES ARE BETTER THAN OTHER??? I JUST WANT TO SHOOT SOME ENEMIES IN MY BEAUTIFUL BB!!!)

Comparing to a list of "positives":

• Familiarity to popular FPS'es
• Involves magic
• Variety (of course, variety in the context of different gameplay supplied by subs, CVs, etc. is bad!!!!)
• Team can work for me while I observe the beautiful forest on the island nearby...

 

It seems there are more negatives...

 

 

[mcboernester]

3 hours ago, Nagine said:

A few examples of the issues:

• It is forced.  Well, i don*t want to play Epicenter or single cap games either, at least one of those is gonna bite the dust soon ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Armsrace was and is a super popular mode as by general feedback, therefore this step seems logical to me
• It is totally unrealistic. It's an arcade game, there is no realism involved since day 1. Neither in aiming  ( bb guns dont magically hit targets with the first salvo on 24km), nor Spotting ( ships don't magically disappear on 6km). Also ships dont have HP bars IRL
• It ignores current bits of balance (e.g., heal ability for everyone, including superships). If everybody gets a heal where is the difference? It's als not like the ships are balanced for 1on1 situations, unless you think that for example a shima can deal with a Smaland on her own 
• Some classes are extremely well suited for this mode (e.g. subs), which will be an issue if the team gets a player of this class who plays "just for fun" and doesn't care about no wins.  If you mean because of grabbing buffs fast DDs are way better for that purpose. For the second part -> its random...... where is the difference to everyday gameplay here? I had an Eagle in my game yesterday that didn't spot the DD 7km next to him while i was within 10km with a Colbert, just as a fast example for exceptional random teamplay. You can't blame WG that the general playerbase is stupid. 
• One of the reasons why encounter didn't work was that many players couldn't switch to a different gameplay. For example, BBs continued camping in irrelevant spots that they were used to doing in "normal" modes.  You can't blame WG that the general playerbase is stupid.
• Stats will become even more irrelevant (and some players play for a chosen stat, like damage, only) You can't blame WG that the general playerbase is stupid.
• Overload of information for some players (WAT, SOME SUPPLIES ARE BETTER THAN OTHER??? I JUST WANT TO SHOOT SOME ENEMIES IN MY BEAUTIFUL BB!!!) You can't blame WG that the general playerbase is stupid.

Comparing to a list of "positives":

• Familiarity to popular FPS'es FPS means first person shooter, where do you see that in wows? If anything it's either an mmo or moba game. AFAIK wows is still unique on the market which is also why so many ppl play it. 
• Involves magic See 2nd answer from the top, if you want to play realistic you have to look elsewhere, though i guarantee you that manually aiming your guns, having Duds on a constant basis and wait half a day for a ship to sink isn't fun for most potential players
• Variety (of course, variety in the context of different gameplay supplied by subs, CVs, etc. is bad!!!!) ... what. I'm not even sure what this "argument" is about
• Team can work for me while I observe the beautiful forest on the island nearby... You can't blame WG that the general playerbase is stupid.

 

It seems there are more negatives...Thanks for those totally unbias'd pros and cons 

 

 

Answers above. 

[lovelacebeer]

I have asked this over on the PTS section but not had a reply as yet so wondering if anyone here knows:
 

On the PTS notes they say that epicentre has been disabled while testing arms race, so would that mean no more epicentre on the live server or it’s just a temporary measure for the PTS?

[Yedwy]

20 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

I have asked this over on the PTS section but not had a reply as yet so wondering if anyone here knows:
 

On the PTS notes they say that epicentre has been disabled while testing arms race, so would that mean no more epicentre on the live server or it’s just a temporary measure for the PTS?

Ar replaces epicenter

[Nagine]

3 hours ago, mcboernester said:

It is forced.  Well, i don*t want to play Epicenter or single cap games either, at least one of those is gonna bite the dust soon ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Armsrace was and is a super popular mode as by general feedback, therefore this step seems logical to me

Negatives of the new additions can be debated, but any forced addition is an automatic bad thing (you can avoid subs, CVs or superships, but you can't escape this mode).

 

3 hours ago, mcboernester said:

It is totally unrealistic. It's an arcade game, there is no realism involved since day 1. Neither in aiming  ( bb guns dont magically hit targets with the first salvo on 24km), nor Spotting ( ships don't magically disappear on 6km). Also ships dont have HP bars IRL

I wonder, whether the same argument applies for subs? Btw, you obviously missed historical discussions in this same forum or historical articles from WG.

 

4 hours ago, mcboernester said:

It ignores current bits of balance (e.g., heal ability for everyone, including superships). If everybody gets a heal where is the difference? It's als not like the ships are balanced for 1on1 situations, unless you think that for example a shima can deal with a Smaland on her own 

Let me guess, you would play Khabarovsk with smoke...

 

4 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Some classes are extremely well suited for this mode (e.g. subs), which will be an issue if the team gets a player of this class who plays "just for fun" and doesn't care about no wins.  If you mean because of grabbing buffs fast DDs are way better for that purpose. For the second part -> its random...... where is the difference to everyday gameplay here? I had an Eagle in my game yesterday that didn't spot the DD 7km next to him while i was within 10km with a Colbert, just as a fast example for exceptional random teamplay. You can't blame WG that the general playerbase is stupid. 

 Imbalance due to "stupidness" of some players was one of the main reasons for CV rework. So yes, the impact of players' skill difference was taken into consideration for balance in the past, and is still important.

 

4 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Stats will become even more irrelevant (and some players play for a chosen stat, like damage, only) You can't blame WG that the general playerbase is stupid.

Why exactly accuracy of stats is stupid? Btw, I'm not blaming WG.

 

4 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Overload of information for some players (WAT, SOME SUPPLIES ARE BETTER THAN OTHER??? I JUST WANT TO SHOOT SOME ENEMIES IN MY BEAUTIFUL BB!!!) You can't blame WG that the general playerbase is stupid.

You seem too obsessed about someone blaming WG :)

 

4 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Familiarity to popular FPS'es FPS means first person shooter, where do you see that in wows? If anything it's either an mmo or moba game. AFAIK wows is still unique on the market which is also why so many ppl play it. 

Ever noticed that in WOWS you shoot at things from a first person perspective? However, that doesn't mean that WOWS have to copy-paste game modes from other shooters.

 

4 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Involves magic See 2nd answer from the top, if you want to play realistic you have to look elsewhere, though i guarantee you that manually aiming your guns, having Duds on a constant basis and wait half a day for a ship to sink isn't fun for most potential players

As I said, existence of magic for some players is an advantage :) But there are many other games in fantasy setting. Magic lovers have quite a big selection already, while historical ship lovers have quite limited one.

 

4 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Variety (of course, variety in the context of different gameplay supplied by subs, CVs, etc. is bad!!!!) ... what. I'm not even sure what this "argument" is about

Maybe because you have difficulties imagining a game without magic? Games can be different.

 

4 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Team can work for me while I observe the beautiful forest on the island nearby... You can't blame WG that the general playerbase is stupid.

Again, you seem too obsessed about someone blaming WG. It is possible to criticize a feature without blaming WG, raging, and promising to quit the game. I know, incomprehensible!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

Just don't feed the troll......

[MadBadDave]

14 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

[PETITION] WG is planning to move "Arms Race" battles into normal gaming (possibly even in upcoming WoWs v0.11.4) - please do not do that !!!

 

 

"New Map, French cruisers in early access, Arms Race in the Public Test, changes to submarines, and other news — Closed test 0.11.4"

 

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/311

 

 

And this is now available in "Public Test" (PT) for all to try:

 

"Main page News Public Test Public Test of Update 0.11.4: Round 1"

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/public-test/public-test-0114/

 

 

 

IMHO the "Arms Race" should only be available in separate game mode as nice addition to traditional gaming modes (i.e. just as it was all the time) - but it SHOULD NOT be pressed into "Random battles" for example!!!

 

Why?

 

Because all ships are "changed" in "Arms Race" and this game mode simply doesn't correspond to anything else!

 

Also, all statistics will become skewed because "Arms Race" ships are no longer normal ships - their characteristics and everything about them is TOTALY CHANGED in the "Arms race" !!!

 

 

Guys, let the WG hear our voice please !!!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

A petition, like the anti sub polls etc ?,  WG don’t give jack zhit about what we the player base want and don’t want, so do you seriously think they will actually listen and care 🤔.

[That_Other_Nid]

14 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

A vote would make player opinion about the issue more transparent.

 

For the record, I against Arms Race in Randoms too.

Epicenter was already too complicated for the playerbase. Arms Race will make this worse and might cause other issues (ships scale differently with power ups, creating balance issues, the performance data from these battles is not comparable to other battles)

 

I love it as a mode, and most of your issues would be eliminated if arms race statistics were not gathered. As for the player base being too casual/stupid/uninformed/lazy  for the mode, I expect that is true but still, the only way they can learn is though exposure. Throw them in the deep end a bit and see how things go. It can be withdrawn later but they need the data of a larger player base to judge that. 

[Andrewbassg]

14 minutes ago, That_Other_Nid said:

I love it as a mode,

The issue is not the mode. The issue is that it will be randomly selected. In randoms. Again Wedgie is outdoing himself in retardness. Actually... that's the norm.

[SodaBubbles]

40 minutes ago, That_Other_Nid said:

 

I love it as a mode, and most of your issues would be eliminated if arms race statistics were not gathered. As for the player base being too casual/stupid/uninformed/lazy  for the mode, I expect that is true but still, the only way they can learn is though exposure. Throw them in the deep end a bit and see how things go. It can be withdrawn later but they need the data of a larger player base to judge that. 

 

That is fine too. If damage stats were not collected, but kills and WR were, that would resolve many of the playerbase objections. It would certainly resolve mine. 

I like Arms Race, but not in Randoms in its current form. 

[Angry_Penguin18]

To be clear, I quite like Arms Race (and convoy and Asymetric battles when they worked) but as their own separate game mode. I think they should keep the 3 on rotation to maintain variation - Randoms should be reserved for the standard game.