Poll about Cv spotting.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

13 hours ago, FukushuNL said:

I am not going to play CVs cause I got integrity and values

Oh boy

[BLUB__BLUB]

15 hours ago, FukushuNL said:

Ah, dear Blub, for a moment I thought you understood. But you are the same as the rest of them. First, playing them is not the only option. You can put up a big ol moddle finger to WG and quit the game. Easy. I did it too. "Having to gitgut at CV" is just a BS excuses to play them anyways, nothing more, nothing less. 

Sort of "suicide is painless' but differently. As in, not playing the game actually means you are dead to it. Or it is dead to you. 

Anyway you are of no use at all to your buddies who play the game, and soon you will be like dead to them as well. 

 

15 hours ago, FukushuNL said:

I am not going to play CVs cause I got integrity and values.

What you mean is, you are a snowflake claiming the moral high ground. 

But that's fine. Since you do not play the game anyway, enjoy the not-playing. I guess.

 

[Andrewbassg]

2 hours ago, Yuu5Eleven said:

Oh boy

Well, he's not alone. I played some Cv's but only in ops.

 

#Metoo.

[Andrewbassg]

20 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Just play CVs. They are mnot THAT all-powerfulm, and attacks can be negated or you can annoy the F out of them. 

 Make them wast e time - sure they'll get you, but it will take them so long you spare half the team. 

Well, the problem isn't if they are that powerful. The problems are that  they are markedly unfun to play against, contributed for years (and still do) to the toxicity in the game because they are quite arguably dishonestly implemented.

 

Represent the biggest failure of Wows and Wedgie, as of yet.

 

That being said, I'm gonna respect my role as a host.

[Rockstone_III]

If a cv plane cannot spot, then it can never attack any ship. 

 

Though its probably a good idea to have plane spotting similar to radar spotting. The player himself sees the ship immediately and his teammates after 6 (I think) seconds. That way, flying over a DD does not cost it half its life or take away one of its smokes.

Still, as long as its in the game, first duty of a CV player is to spot ships and keep them spotted. Its sucks when you are in de DD,. But that will serve as a balance to DD being able to spot BBs without any danger (other than not looking out).

[Andrewbassg]

16 minutes ago, Commander_Rockstone said:

If a cv plane cannot spot, then it can never attack any ship. 

We are talking about spotting by planes  to the team.

[BLUB__BLUB]

33 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Well, the problem isn't if they are that powerful. The problems are that  they are markedly unfun to play against, contributed for years (and still do) to the toxicity in the game because they are quite arguably dishonestly implemented.

They are indeed unfun to play against. There is nothing you can do to repay their "service". 

Then again, that also goes for a lot of other stuff. Unspotted DD, cruiser shooting over island, BB from outside your range. 

But at least those are easier to mitigate: zig-zag, reposition, or go unspotted, or angle - whatever. 

Cvs - not so much. They can re-align their attacks. And you can't really avoid everything. 

 

33 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Represent the biggest failure of Wows and Wedgie, as of yet.

Well, "as of yet" is correct. The most stupid thing is, they have the chance to fix both CVs and subs. 

Just make them eachothers prime target. Have that (stupid) ping disable the CVs auto-DCP. 

And have the CV make a choice - swap one of the squadrons for ASW bombers. 

Hey presto, half the problem fixed. And then fix that spotting. 

 

[Andrewbassg]

10 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

They are indeed unfun to play against. There is nothing you can do to repay their "service". 

Then again, that also goes for a lot of other stuff. Unspotted DD, cruiser shooting over island, BB from outside your range. 

But at least those are easier to mitigate: zig-zag, reposition, or go unspotted, or angle - whatever. 

Cvs - not so much. They can re-align their attacks. And you can't really avoid everything. 

Tbh......that is a playstyle difference and is unavoidable. I mean planes. Tho not spotting that is completely  unjustifiable, because it comes on top of everything else.

10 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well, "as of yet" is correct. The most stupid thing is, they have the chance to fix both CVs and subs. 

Just make them eachothers prime target. Have that (stupid) ping disable the CVs auto-DCP. 

And have the CV make a choice - swap one of the squadrons for ASW bombers. 

Hey presto, half the problem fixed. 

 

Not gonna happen. They are too proud of their "clever" ( of course the very opposite is the truth) ideas and their so called "solutions".

10 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

  And then fix that spotting. 

[SodaBubbles]

10 hours ago, Yuu5Eleven said:

Oh boy

I'm exactly the same way. It's unethical to play CVs against humans, or put them in the game as ships playable against humans.

[Beaker71]

Although I like the idea of limited spotting for CVs (e.g. minimap only), I'm not sure.

 

For lower/mid tier pew pew DDs (e.g. USN) - sometimes the only thing that allows you to do damage is when a cv is spotting for you. Certainly if it's late game. But that's only when the CV player isn't a potato - so perhaps the benefits outweigh the downsides.

[BLUB__BLUB]

20 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

Tbh......that is a playstyle difference and is unavoidable. I mean planes.

Yes planes are unavoidable. You cannot outturn them, you also cannot outrun them.

And since AA is crap, you also cannot even blap and murder his minions.

In for instance a Pensacola, there is also not much you can do against a fat BB. 

He will blap you from every angle. But at least RNG may save you, or maybe you are fast enough to get away. 

Not so much against a CV. And you can't even burn him down... only spank some of his minions. Lightly.

 

This should either be more punishable, or more open to RNG. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

13 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

I'm exactly the same way. It's unethical to play CVs against humans, or put them in the game as ships playable against humans.

Oh boy 2. 

[Andrewbassg]

10 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Not so much against a CV. And you can't even burn him down... only spank some of his minions. Lightly.

My solution was and is, that dmg dealt to planes simply should be reflected back to the hull. After spotting is removed.

[BLUB__BLUB]

Just now, Andrewbassg said:

My solution was and is, that dmg dealt to planes simply should be reflected back to the hull. After spotting is removed.

It would be funny, but then nobody would play the bloody things - so it won't happen. Here is what will happen if they do.

It will make the average potato (who flies into Flak) lose his planes AND his CV very fast, and as such WeeGee will need to up the damage. 

This means guys like me that are a bit savvy will kill not 3 or 4, but more than half your team.

Guys that are actually good, like @El2aZeR or @Yuu5Eleven will kill your whole team. Easily. In 5 minutes.

 

Spottingwise, it would be fair (IMO) if ships that are spotted are only spotted as far as they can shoot. 

As in, a DD that can shoot 10km cannot be seen (even if the CV sees him) > 10km, but only on minimap. 

And they can make that whatever, because they can also make ANY ship unspotted at 8km in cyclones.

What is the most ludicrous idea is that CVs only spot DDs at 2.5km, as we have now,

but when they do, anyone else sees them all over the map. It is really insane. Should be other way around.

CV players aren't happy either, the spotting means, drop torpedoes but you spoot the target for half the map. 
And yes of course, you lost half your planes but the kill goes to that back-parked camper BB... duh. 

The ship that is under attack by the CV is not fighting the CV, he is fighting everyone else as well. 

And YES that is a problem. 

 

What you guys want is an effective AA system. The system we have now is bubkus. 

It calculates the speed and direction of planes AT THAT MOMENT to spawn Flak 2 secs later. 

This basically means that not YOU, but the CV controls where the Flak will spawn. 

Leading to it being --> quite avoidable. Better CV players just make sure to change direction every 2 secs. 

THIS is the problem. Worse players just get wasted, better players do not care about Flak AT ALL. 

But in other ship types, even unicums get RNG.

 

AA can be fixed though. Give players DEF-AA, that changes the PATTERN or the time to "random".

Hell, they could even have the Flak spawn in unicorn-shape for those Manga-botes. 

One time a unicorn-shape, next salvo a seal-shape, next salvo a whatever. 

Just NOT the same pattern EVERY set time. And that would be effective, also against unicums.

 

This would work similar as/like: a DD launching torpedoes, compared to a CV launching planes. 

If you screw it up, you lose the torps, there will be a reload time, and then you can try again. 

And that reload time can be balanced. As it is now, it is wayyy off - because the mechanics are stupid. 

You cannot balance stupid. You can only make the average damage sort of similar, which is NOT balance.

 

But you'd still want a chance to shoot the CV. This should be comparable to a DD as well. 

As in, some DDs have long range torps, you will never see them, but the torps are slow and can be seen far away. 

And some have shh... load of torps, but a long reload, and so on. So, a CV should have LIMITED RANGE on the planes. 

Or a limited time to use them. Or far less speed. So some CVs have to come close, and others do not,

But you'd also see the planes from far away if a Cv has long range planes. At some range, you'd spot the CV if he sends them off. 

And as such you'd get a good idea of where the CV is located - same as you see torps, you know the average position of the DD.

If he FFs it up and launches planes when too close, you'd see them take off and land. You could shoot the CV. 

Sure some CVs could sit at 20 km max range... some DDs can, too. But they'd not be a great danger. 

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

32 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It would be...

You are making some very good points, which just ads up to the overall objective assessment that Cv's are just a complete and utter  sh#t and straight up dishonestly implemented.

 

However my drive is to see them accepted, not nerfed, removed or whatever. The most basic problem is that Wedgie  insist on them being the.... "queer of the hill"  instead of making them more in line with other vessels and about what this game is.

Not taking dmg, while inflicting dmg is, after all, dishonest. Not playing the same game as every other ship does is again dishonest. IF spotting would be removed, I'm willing to agree, like I said, to a meeting at Compiègne which means an armistice. No peace, tho. Until then we are in a "special operation" in which I take every opportunity to call out their lies and dishonesty.

 

And have some fun doing it. I can't do more, but I can deal some damage. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

8 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

You are making some very good points, which just ads up to the overall objective assessment that Cv's are just a complete and utter  sh#t and straight up dishonestly implemented.

Most of these points have been made by others as well. 

And those others are CV-players... some much much better than me. 

But yeah you are not incorrect: they are dishonestly inplemented. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

However my drive is to see them accepted, not nerfed, removed or whatever. The most basic problem is that Wedgie  insist on them being the.... "queer of the hill"  instead of making them more in line with other vessels and about what this game is.

I'd like to see them more involving. For all players. There is two ways to make a ship a succes:

1. Make it fun;

2. Make it broken/OP. 

 

8 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Not taking dmg, while inflicting dmg is, after all, dishonest.

It might also be good tactics. Never pick a fair fight.

The thing is - CVs, in some cases, PER DEFINITION don't take damage.

And in other cases, the "interaction" is robotised, faked action - which can be tricked.

 

8 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Not playing the same game as every other ship does is again dishonest.

That depends. If there are enough ways to interact then they can be balanced anyway. 

But it depends if there is indeed INTERaction or if it is FAKE action. 

Too much fake action makes it "playing a different game" indeed.

Like a cat poking at a goldfish. Sure he can maybe poop the cats face, but... 

 

8 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

IF spotting would be removed, I'm willing to agree, like I said, to a meeting at Compiègne which means an armistice. No peace, tho.

Until then we are in a "special operation" in which I take every opportunity to call out their lies and dishonesty.

The problem is, you are not the one that is calling - nor am I. 

We are both volunteers in this crap-army. In which we can only pick our poison.

And then we will have to try to do as good as we can with it. 

 

8 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

And have some fun doing it. I can't do more, but I can deal some damage. 

I do not think you can deal damage to WeeGee. You can either be fodder and play the game, or not play a it and be out.

They have enough cannonfodder so it doesn't matter if we become veterans or just leave. 

Veterans are not worth a cent more to WeeGee than cannonfodder. I think they prefer the fodder TBH, it pays more.

 

The only thing is to convince them a better game will give them more fodder, and as such more pay. 

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Guys that are actually good, like @El2aZeR or @Yuu5Eleven will kill your whole team. Easily. In 5 minutes.

Please - never again - mention those players in one sentence.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Von_Pruss said:

Please - never again - mention those players in one sentence.

It would only be a problem if they both were allowed to team up on the reds in a CV. 

Trust me they really cannot blap you all the way from here. I hope. 

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I'd like to see them more involving. For all players. There is two ways to make a ship a succes:

 1. Make it fun;

 2. Make it broken/OP. 

 

Yeah :) I recognized your pov, that of a Cv player, who wants the stuff more challenging :)

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It might also be good tactics. Never pick a fair fight

:) That depends a bit on the definition of "fair" Is Neptune vs Laska a fair fight? But if we talk about a  Laska B ......then it might be the other way around. 

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The problem is, you are not the one that is calling - nor am I. 

Of course. I'm not absurd.

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I do not think you can deal damage to WeeGee.

Depends on what we call "damage". The most "damaging" things against propaganda and misinformation is the truth, facts, education and information. Could  any of that called "damaging", per se? :) Tho its highly effective.

 

The very fact that they consider this implementation smart, also makes them idiots. There are only two kind of idiots in this world, those who know that they are idiots and those who think that they are... smart.

[lovelacebeer]

I know it would never happen but I would be really interesting to see what WG have to say about their closed testing of airborne spotting. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Yeah :) I recognized your pov, that of a Cv player, who wants the stuff more challenging :)

True. I know I can do the required stuff, I am savvy enough. 

I'll usually outplay the other CV. Now the challenge is how to do it. 

As in: why bomb DDs when you can torp them, it is much more fun (also it kills them faster). 

And why not kill the other CV, if possible (kill the biggest treath if you can). And who says a CV cannot cap Epicentre?

And of course if I get 2 brothers I'll go through middle in a CV, because FF Flambass, too. 

Sure I'll not reach unicum stats. Who cares, it is a game, we should have fun. Medium stats is plenty enough.

 

3 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

:) That depends a bit on the definition of "fair" Is Neptune vs Laska a fair fight? But if we talk about a  Laska B ......then it might be the other way around. 

Fair as in, you do not show yourself (by shooting) until you are quite sure you can whack his broadside. 

And as in - yes you can attack a Shima in a Paolo Yolo. When you have more friends behind you than he does. 

Preferably, he should not have any at all... "fair play" does not exist. This game is about whacking others. 

The hammer does not care about the mole, so to speak. Given the opportunity, it just goes SPLAT. 

 

3 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Of course. I'm not absurd.

Good. You seem to think clearly, wayyy better than most here. 

The only way to "hurt"weeGee is to not spend any money on them. 

Although others will still do it, and will they miss what they never had anyway. 

 

3 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Depends on what we call "damage". The most "damaging" things against propaganda and misinformation is the truth, facts, education and information. Could  any of that called "damaging", per se? :) Tho its highly effective.

I doubt if it is effective on WeeGee. Those that see the truth, either move on or adapt. 

Some of them will go reee reee for a while. They will not have fun, but it will not affect WeeGee. 

They are just ruining their own fun. I call them flagellants. 

 

3 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

The very fact that they consider this implementation smart, also makes them idiots. There are only two kind of idiots in this world, those who know that they are idiots and those who think that they are... smart.

I do not know if they think it is smart. Maybe that is not their objective. Maybe they are satisfied when they are making money. 

But yeah if they think this implementation is smart.. .then they are indeed very very dumb. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

I know it would never happen but I would be really interesting to see what WG have to say about their closed testing of airborne spotting. 

Well... I'm not sure I would believe whatever they have to say. It is something like this:

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Who cares, it is a game, we should have fun

Exactly.

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Fair as in, you do not show yourself (by shooting) until you are quite sure you can whack his broadside. 

And as in - yes you can attack a Shima in a Paolo Yolo. When you have more friends behind you than he does. 

Preferably, he should not have any at all... "fair play" does not exist. This game is about whacking others. 

The hammer does not care about the mole, so to speak. Given the opportunity, it just goes SPLAT. 

I got your point in the first place:) Of course no combat, actual or simulated  will ever be "fair". However creating opportunities for multiple interactions is GG design.

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The only way to "hurt"weeGee is to not spend any money on them.

I kinda doubt that :) Anyway I consider this to be a personal decision.

 

Edit: and I don't want to "hurt" them. I want them to realize how retarded they are. i actually pity them .

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I doubt if it is effective on WeeGee. Those that see the truth, either move on or adapt. 

 Some of them will go reee reee for a while. They will not have fun, but it will not affect WeeGee. 

They are just ruining their own fun. I call them flagellants. 

Of course it is. They actually take pride in their job and work . What they don't like is the justified slap in the face. In one of their streams  was a guest from Peter and  he was very full of himself. I wrote two phrases and he was all colors :) while the host had a hard time retaining a serious face:)

 

I:m from former Warsaw pact country. I know these people. They always want the high moral ground, because that's what they are used to hear everyday and that's how they were educated. The core narrative in those countries was that 'it is a scientifically proven fact" that their societal organization is superior to the decadent capitalist ones. Like 1+1=2 and that for almost a century. And then '89 and '91 come so....yeah. They longue to hear that stuff..

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I do not know if they think it is smart. Maybe that is not their objective.

Of course they do:). It solves an objective  (actually multiple at once) therefore is 'highly" efficient. Remember the "we know better and you know sh#t" "period"?  Yeah..

 

Tho yes the game's health, as we would define it, is not an objective per se.

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

'it is a scientifically proven fact" that their societal organization is superior to the decadent capitalist ones. Like 1+1=2 and that for almost a century.

It may be our 1991 now. Socialism doesn't work, capitalism doesn't work either. 

Because none of those systems will protect you from the "dishonest aircraftcarriers" that FF it all up. 

We have seen them emerge in 1991, and we see them emerge here as well.

They'll sink each others team and then congratulate the other one. 

 

Meanwhile - in the game, if we have aircraft carriers, you'd better GitGud. 

Because if there is nobody that can actually handle one, then you can be sure your team loses. 

And in this game, there is no second place, and no refund if your ship survives undamaged... 

 

[Andrewbassg]

29 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It may....

:) Yeah....The point wasn't about wazz better, the point was how conditioning, cultural or otherwise, shapes our thinking. 

29 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Meanwhile - in the game, if we have aircraft carriers, you'd better GitGud. 

Because if there is nobody that can actually handle one, then you can be sure your team loses. 

And in this game, there is no second place, and no refund if your ship survives undamaged... 

 

Take care mate and have fun