Separating economic bonuses from visual customizations (DB 318)

[Et3rnity_fr]

Il y a 15 heures, clemi135 a dit :

 

By putting it in the Excel Sheet myself. I've made a new copy to make I haven't been using an old version, but it's still the same for me:

 

Keep in mind that we get one of each booster for free, so the real results in fexp are 4,0,2,0.

You can see that I've added 10 Type 59, since they get converted into +200% exp/cexpt and +100% fexp.

 

The 10 Ourubouros are being converted to 10 +400% bonuses. Each six of them are merged into +2400%, and since they round up we get 2 of them.

The 10 Type 59 are turned into 10 +100% bonuses, each three merged into +300%, giving us 4 of them.

So my results match the explanation in the devblog.

 

You getting -3 of the +600% boosters is confusing to me, sure that there's no mistake? I had to reload my calculator once because he started doing very weird stuff...

I created a new copy and now i have the same results as you.

I probably mess up with something in my last excel sheet.

 

 

[YabbaCoe]

1 hour ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

One question, currently we get economic signals, and occasionally, econmic camos from mission rewards & daily crates.

Are these new economic bonuses going to be included in mission rewards & daily crates?

Yes, basically those economic boosters will replace signals and camos from all different kind of rewards. 

 

40 minutes ago, WildWind84 said:

@YabbaCoe I forgot 1 question - what will happened with economic flags for -10% service costs? They don't exist anymore, but many of us still have stock of them on accounts? WG need better with this section - service costs, because that impact on credit earnings very much and in the case of gold ships and special ships - impact is much higher.

If I am not mistaken, those will be converted to credits boosters.

[ColonelPete]

22 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

Yes, basically those economic boosters will replace signals and camos from all different kind of rewards.

I hope we still have some signals on the ships, just as decorations. Otherwise the masts look really bland.

[Dark_Meta_]

30 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I hope we still have some signals on the ships, just as decorations. Otherwise the masts look really bland.

The ingame buff singals (fire duration, healing, speed, detonation, etc.) stay. It is just the economic ones that are reworked/replaced.

[OilyMacaroniConstant]

3 hours ago, WildWind84 said:

@YabbaCoe I forgot 1 question - what will happened with economic flags for -10% service costs? They don't exist anymore, but many of us still have stock of them on accounts? WG need better with this section - service costs, because that impact on credit earnings very much and in the case of gold ships and special ships - impact is much higher.

They are converted into Tokens. 1 signal into 1 Token. For camos it's either 1 or 5 per piece, depending on the bonus.

 

From the devblog:

Spoiler

Service cost reduction

Expendable service cost reduction bonuses from signals or camouflages will be replaced by a temporary resource that can be exchanged at the Armory for various other bonuses. Bonuses from the first row (e.g. +20% credits) are planned to cost 3 tokens, second row - 6 tokens, third row - 24 tokens. After a couple of updates, these tokens will be automatically converted to credits. 

 

[YabbaCoe]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I hope we still have some signals on the ships, just as decorations. Otherwise the masts look really bland.

Yes, the combat signals will be still present. 

[LonesomePolecat]

8 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

Regarding combat bonuses of current camos, every single camo is giving those. 

I know and that what exactly we missing all. Combat bonuses should remain on camos. That's why they called camouflage and not highlight...

[walik_hracka]

On 4/22/2022 at 10:04 AM, YabbaCoe said:

No, all current permacamos will have two parts: Visuals and permanent economic booster. If you have more permanent economic boosters for the same ship, you should be able to choose which one you want to use in the battle. Those are not stack, basically as now, when you can't use two permacamos at the same time on one ship.

 

Well, DevBlog is always part of Game Discussion tab and actually, it belong to the discussion about the game, as mostly very engaged players are interested in the DevBlog announcements. 

 

Well, they should have the same status. I don't have the exact clarified explanation, but my guess is, that basically, you would have an attachable item that will consist visual and permanent economic bonus. Basically, it would be visible in similar-ish way as it is now. But I will ask for exact clarification on this topic.

 

No, if you currently have permacamo, it will stay on your account and it will be divided to permacamo visual and perma economic booster. 

After the change, if you don't have permacamo on tech tree ship, you would be able to buy perma eco bonus or perma visuals separately. So if you want only visuals, you can have it for 200 doubloons for Type 20 and if you want special skin Scorpioid, it will be for 3200 doubloons. Also if you have some expandable camo visual, that you are using on tech tree ship, if you want to, you can only bug permaeconomic booster, without visual.

 

Simple answer.. you will keep the camo as visual for Mino and you will have the perma boost, which will be in a golden slot on top left corner:

After that you can chose one bonus for each category in the middle section. This will make all the settings for the battle much faster and easier and also you can exactly see, what bonus for each category you will have in the battle. Now it is plenty of complicated calculations.

Hello, thank you for the information about the upcomming changes.
However, ...
Please I guess few more pictures with english text could answer many questions and prevent doubts.

1.  Please is anybody working on an english version of the presented picture (see your post)?
   It shall not take more than some minutes to edit it in a picture editor and put the english text in.
    
2.  Please would it be possible to se also example picture of the new system for a ship with permanent camouflage? (se example pictures of the present system)
   I have seen several questions and answers about the permanent camouflages bonuses but it is still hard to imagine that.
   I would appreciate to se how my Smaland (maint.-50%cr/+100%xp/+20%cr) or Monarch (maint.-10%cr/+50%cxp/+50%vxp) or Anshan (maint.-10%cr/+50%xp/+100%vxp) will looks like in the new system on a picture rather than explanation.
   For example are all of the 3 differend types of bonuses of a single camouflage stacked in the "golden slot on top left corner" or shall I give up 2 of them for a battle?

 

I beliewe these new pictures that WG would possibly make could help people to understand it and therefor prevent doubts and more questions.

 

[ThePurpleSmurf]

@YabbaCoe

From the Dev blog …

Quote

• Most of the expendable camouflages you have or will receive will also be purchasable for credits;
• The number of expendable items in your inventory is displayed including those that are already mounted on ships.

Does this mean that visuals become expendable camos that we must buy (if so, is a price known yet?) and are consumed per game just like right now or does it mean the visuals are not consumed and they are permanent once we acquired the visuals from a camo?

[300ConfirmedKills]

Vor 1 Stunde, ThePurpleSmurf sagte:

@YabbaCoe

From the Dev blog …

Does this mean that visuals become expendable camos that we must buy (if so, is a price known yet?) and are consumed per game just like right now or does it mean the visuals are not consumed and they are permanent once we acquired the visuals from a camo?

I think it's most likely that expendable camos will continue to be expendable. To make them once-off collectibles would remove a huge pile of trinkets for WG to hand out as and when it suits them.

[ThePurpleSmurf]

6 minutes ago, 300ConfirmedKills said:

I think it's most likely that expendable camos will continue to be expendable. To make them once-off collectibles would remove a huge pile of trinkets for WG to hand out as and when it suits them.

Yeah but they would be replaced by token/booster. So instead of camos for visuals they would/could hand out XP or credits booster. Of course they could still give out new visuals as e.g. mission rewards. I wouldn't mind to pay 10k or 15k credits for a visual per game but WG being WG, they'll probably exaggerate as usual and slap a 80k or 100k price tag on it.

[toomuch4you]

"
 

Permanent Camouflages.

When the change comes out, you will get permanent bonuses with the best available values of your permanent camouflages for a particular ship.

• Any bonuses worse than the standard ones for a Tier are upgraded to them.
• Post-battle service cost reduction bonus is replaced with credits bonus: for each 2% of the service cost reduction you get +1% credits instead.
  "

so with an Typ 20 Camo -50% cost reduction we will get +25% credits => would be negative for Testing in COOP Games

can you add the service cost reduction to the rewards calculator, please?
gross and net costs would help, too

Kind Regards

[Carramber1]

So reading the dovbleg i come to the conclusion that these changes are NOT popular with me. i want the current system, not the garbage WG is trying to promote here.

 

I dont want this, so i say so. Fellow forumites, rather than just ask technical questions, also add a firm statement for or against this please.

 

it would be interesting to see how popular this actually is.

good luck and good hunting!

[BRONSON1972]

Another uneeded, unwanted update that will complicate and screw everyone over, can I have all the doubloons back I wasted on perma camos on this game then please, I have over 300 temp camo's despite using them as much as I can and you jokers are going to make them worthless with this ridiculous update.

[BRONSON1972]

Reading most of the comments I see that, it does not matter which country you come from, whether you are female, male or undecided or are old or young, we all think this idea is garbage.

[Two_Socks]

GOBSMACKED... ABSOLUTELY GOBSMACKED of the news 'bout the Camo's and special signs... this must be a cruel joke....

They CAN'T mean that....If ( and IMEAN IF) they will persue with this ridiculous plan, I forsee a big loss members of WG.
And what about all mebers who sometimes payd big money to get a permacamo, bought some , BIG Camo packeges or Sign superpackets.... 

Premuim ships with permacamo... what about them? Will they get their money back, can forsee ANY compensation?  I think not. 

Implementing this in the upcoming update, will make NO SENSE what so ever... It will be a DOWNGRADE 

 

[Shells]

So if I understand correctly it will be an overall nerf to perma camo's because you have to select which bonusses you want to apply.

Any camo's bought would thus effectively be devalued instantly by half or more depending on the bonuses.

 

I didn't really understand how it works for regular camo's, though I suspect the bonuses they provided will be divided and added to the categories mentioned before.

 

Forgive me for being blunt but if my interpretation of the rework is correct, it feels an awful lot like WG is stealing what was payed for. Sure you would probably get both bonuses but you wouldn't be able to use them at the same time so it wont provide the same bonus

 

Edit: typo

[Two_Socks]

(purced) Camo's will be nullyfied ( I hope I spelled this right(lol)), hence the disbelieve an anger among the players

[Dark_Meta_]

19 hours ago, Shells said:

So if I understand correctly it will be an overall nerf to perma camo's because you have to select which bonusses you want to apply.

Any camo's bought would thus effectively be devalued instantly by half or more depending on the bonuses.

 

I didn't really understand how it works for regular camo's, though I suspect the bonuses they provided will be divided and added to the categories mentioned before.

 

Forgive me for being blunt but if my interpretation of the rework is correct, it feels an awful lot like WG is stealing what was payed for. Sure you would probably get both bonuses but you wouldn't be able to use them at the same time so it wont provide the same bonus

 

Edit: typo

No the permacamo bonuses will be in the special slot to the left in the screemshot.

You have these categories now:
Permabuffs that you have bought with perma camos (you can still do that then)

XP buffs

Commander XP buffs

Free XP buffs

Credits buffs

 

Permacamos will not be devalued. They said that several times. People sometimes try to find negatives and if they can not find them, they make them up so they can still cry for some reason...

 

I know people hate change. They rather keep their old bad car and their toxic job, than to get new ones that they first need to warm up too... But so far the system looks way more transparent, understandable for new players and in pretty much all calculations same value or even better.

Just because Flamemu told you to flame, do not follow him like sheep. Build your own opinions. Read slowly and attentively.

[Klopirat]

Vor 50 Minuten, Dark_Meta_ sagte:

Permacamos will not be devalued. They said that several times. People sometimes try to find negatives and if they can not find them, they make them up so they can still cry for some reason...

in a certain sense perma camos will become more 'valuable' than now. At the moment it is usually more profitable (regarding any XP) to use an expendable camo instead of a perma camo because the XP bonuses of perma camos are rather mediocre (especially for lower tiers). But in the new system permanent bonuses don't have this 'competition', their slots are 'exclusive'

[Shells]

 

6 hours ago, Dark_Meta_ said:

No the permacamo bonuses will be in the special slot to the left in the screemshot.

You have these categories now:
Permabuffs that you have bought with perma camos (you can still do that then)

XP buffs

Commander XP buffs

Free XP buffs

Credits buffs

 

Permacamos will not be devalued. They said that several times. People sometimes try to find negatives and if they can not find them, they make them up so they can still cry for some reason...

 

I know people hate change. They rather keep their old bad car and their toxic job, than to get new ones that they first need to warm up too... But so far the system looks way more transparent, understandable for new players and in pretty much all calculations same value or even better.

Just because Flamemu told you to flame, do not follow him like sheep. Build your own opinions. Read slowly and attentively.

 

The categories were clear, they also said the slot on the left is where the bonus will be. What they did not say, or what I could not find, is if all granted bonuses of a perma camo are active in the top left window. Again, from what I understand you have either a XP or Credit bonus active. If that is wrong, by al means explain why. Though looking at the last part of your post, which is a flat-out assumption that shows a biased response, I'm not sure that such an explanation is within your capability. Have a good day sir.

 

5 hours ago, Klopirat said:

in a certain sense perma camos will become more 'valuable' than now. At the moment it is usually more profitable (regarding any XP) to use an expendable camo instead of a perma camo because the XP bonuses of perma camos are rather mediocre (especially for lower tiers). But in the new system permanent bonuses don't have this 'competition', their slots are 'exclusive'

Thanks for the response, what I could not find is if both bonuses (XP & Credits) will be active at the same time if you select a perma camo bonus you have.

 

[Dark_Meta_]

22 minutes ago, Shells said:

[...] Though looking at the last part of your post, which is a flat-out assumption that shows a biased response, I'm not sure that such an explanation is within your capability. Have a good day sir.

Quite ironic after you wrote the totally not biased first comment definitely not containing any assumptions at all:

On 5/10/2022 at 11:46 AM, Shells said:

[...] it will be an overall nerf to perma camo's because you have to select which bonusses you want to apply.

Any camo's bought would thus effectively be devalued instantly by half or more depending on the bonuses.

[...]

[...] it feels an awful lot like WG is stealing what was payed for. [...]

 

Nevertheless I will help you by quickly looking into the DevBlog again for you:

 

I just do not see why you would instantly assume the worst after clearly stating that you did not understand it and then even directly blaming WG for stealing something from you, based on your assumtion only after obviously not reading the DevDiary thoroughly...

 

This is a straight up buff to perma camo bonuses, especially everything below tier X as those did not give any bonus really comparable to the expendable camoflages

[Shells]

3 minutes ago, Dark_Meta_ said:

 

 

I just do not see why you would instantly assume the worst after clearly stating that you did not understand it and then even directly blaming WG for stealing something from you, based on your assumtion only after obviously not reading the DevDiary thoroughly...

If quickly going through the DevBlog results in this, please explain why the circled example is not showing an active buff, unlike some of the others on the right?

I seem to remember something about "read slowly and attentively".

A reader of the DevBlog could come to the conclusion that it is not clear if both the XP & Credit bonus will apply for a perma camo at the same time. From what is given as examples one can assume it's either an XP or Credit bonus which is active in the empty slot to the left.

 

Ow and please look up the legal definition of what is needed to call blame, I have a feeling it may be of help in the future.

 

 

If anyone else is willing to explain how this will be moving forward that would be appreciated.

[Dark_Meta_]

28 minutes ago, Shells said:

If quickly going through the DevBlog results in this, please explain why the circled example is not showing an active buff, unlike some of the others on the right?

I seem to remember something about "read slowly and attentively".

A reader of the DevBlog could come to the conclusion that it is not clear if both the XP & Credit bonus will apply for a perma camo at the same time. From what is given as examples one can assume it's either an XP or Credit bonus which is active in the empty slot to the left.

It is not set, because this is an example picture, not made ingame but designed by an artist making a mockup graphic so you have something to look at.

Also on reading slowly and attentively:

Quote

Nevertheless I will help you by quickly looking into the DevBlog again for you:

Sad I have to post it again, but it clearly states that these bonuses are permanently active for the ship and expandable bonuses can be added on top.

 

They straight up wrote it there. I posted it even above the graphic...

 

28 minutes ago, Shells said:

Ow and please look up the legal definition of what is needed to call blame, I have a feeling it may be of help in the future. 

You must be joking right? You call me out on being biased so I quote your biased comment and that is your answer?

 

28 minutes ago, Shells said:

If anyone else is willing to explain how this will be moving forward that would be appreciated.

If you do not like my screenshots of the DevDiary read it again yourself?

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/318

It is the fourth point below the already discussed graphic of the new bonus screen.

[Shells]

It seems the point is constantly missed, here let me map it out. In sequence the DevBlog states:

• Economic bonuses from permanent camouflages are purchased separately and are permanently active for a ship if present. Expendable bonuses can also now be added on top of permanent ones.

Do note that an economic bonus is not an XP bonus, I fully understand they want to make the system better and more transparent.

Moving the bonuses that now exist into 4 categories makes sense. The hard one there is that the old XP bonus boosted Free and Commander XP as well, that will be removed. When you by a premium ship, you also get a perma camo that includes an XP boost so a commander in that ship will grow faster.

 

This states that will not be possible anymore, but FreeXP was boosted to compensate but what about Commander XP? No word on that though.

XP

In the current system, the XP bonus increases the amount of both Free and Commander XP. This makes it difficult to calculate and decide which bonuses to use, so with the release of the change, the XP bonus will no longer have an effect on Free and Commander XP. To ensure that the maximum possible earnings of these resources are not changed, all economic bonuses in the new system are increased accordingly. 

In addition, the base amount of Free XP gained is increased from 5% to 10%. 

 

 

The final part that states anything about a perma camo explains them as Economic bonus but nothing is mentioned about a (or any) XP component(s).

 

Permanent camouflages and bonuses

After the release of the change, permanent camouflages and permanent economic bonuses can be purchased separately. The economic bonus will cost slightly less than the cost of permanent camouflage now. At the same time:

• The first permanent camouflage that you will buy for a researchable ship in the "Exteriors" tab in port will be discounted;
• The total cost of the bonus and the first permanent camouflage will be equal to the current cost of the permanent camouflage;
• All subsequent permanent camouflages for the same ship will cost the same as they do now.

 

Unless WG presents evidence that states otherwise, it seems like the XP component of an existing perma camo will be removed or at best be interchangeable with the credit bonus, In both cases that means the perma camo now is more effective all round than it will be in the future. Sure the credit earn may potentially go up but the Commander XP or any XP what so ever, will not unless you add that in the expendable part.