How do you like new "Silver" Italian DD line?

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

How do you like new "Silver" Italian DD line?

 

 

I was able to reach the Tier VII via the "Italian Tokens" and have played at least 1 battle in CoOp with each of them. For CoOp they performed OK-ish but nothing special.

 

The Tier VII DD "Luca Tarigo" I am grinding in "Narai" (just like I did with Pan Asian cruiser "Chumphon"). I can do 100.000 - 150.000 damage without problem but I don't like the ship and I don't think that it would work in both "Random" and/or "Ranked"... 

 

 

What is your experience with them?

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Verblonde]

50 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

What is your experience with them?

Early days, and (of course) I suck:

• Similarly to you, I've only played the lower tiers in Coop; my impression of them is that they'll be hard work against real people - the gun range is very manly (short), and they aren't terribly sneaky. They do have basic versions of the smoke + YOLO methodology seen on YOLO Emilio, but the engine boost duration is too short to make much use of.
• I've given the T9 a bit more of a proper run-out, although I'm still in single figures battles against real people. She's fun, but wouldn't be my first pick against real people; the engine boost duration (with coal mod) is sufficient for a reasonably convincing YOLO attack, although you seem to be better off playing a bit more conservatively most of the time. Stealth isn't great, so you get out-spotted by the obvious sneaks; dakka and torps are useful though.
• When you get into the less-short duration engine boosts part of the tree, the YOLO play style is fun, even if you don't get to use it that often against real people (assuming you're being sensible).

The cynic in me is wondering if the mid-tiers have been deliberately designed so as to be hard work against real people to encourage free xping to the point where the line gets more worthwhile?

 

Overall (so far; early days as said previously), they seem to be fun, but are unlikely to - IMO - displace too many people's go-to ships for 'serious' play. Competent players may be able to do rather more with them than I can though!

[EgyptOverseer]

29 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Early days, and (of course) I suck:

• Similarly to you, I've only played the lower tiers in Coop; my impression of them is that they'll be hard work against real people - the gun range is very manly (short), and they aren't terribly sneaky. They do have basic versions of the smoke + YOLO methodology seen on YOLO Emilio, but the engine boost duration is too short to make much use of.
• I've given the T9 a bit more of a proper run-out, although I'm still in single figures battles against real people. She's fun, but wouldn't be my first pick against real people; the engine boost duration (with coal mod) is sufficient for a reasonably convincing YOLO attack, although you seem to be better off playing a bit more conservatively most of the time. Stealth isn't great, so you get out-spotted by the obvious sneaks; dakka and torps are useful though.
• When you get into the less-short duration engine boosts part of the tree, the YOLO play style is fun, even if you don't get to use it that often against real people (assuming you're being sensible).

The cynic in me is wondering if the mid-tiers have been deliberately designed so as to be hard work against real people to encourage free xping to the point where the line gets more worthwhile?

 

Overall (so far; early days as said previously), they seem to be fun, but are unlikely to - IMO - displace too many people's go-to ships for 'serious' play. Competent players may be able to do rather more with them than I can though!

All recent lines are like that, and to some extent some older ones. For example, the battle cruiser german line only gets the line flavour after T7, and below that it's just sub-par and bland ships.

[Aragathor]

They are, at mid-tiers, boring by design. They could use some love T7 and lower.

[Chaoskraehe]

I got the T9 in the first 5 crates. 

 

I think they are OK, but Yolo Paolo is way better in my opinion. 

 

As long as enemy DD's let you use your SAP they are fine but when they know how to angle they are lackluster. 

[ColonelPete]

• I consider DD with SAP to be problematic, either it is useless or too strong
• the short gun range and SAP makes them good DD killers - you can quickly disengage and usually vanish when you sink your prey
• the short gun range limits your ability to support teammates, which reduces teamplay
• overall I do not consider them to be an improvement for the gameplay of the game

[DDG_121]

I just want Adriatico for the looks of it.

 

Didn't even play on any of them (free early-access ones that is).

[Chaos_Umbra]

Well considering that I got a kraken in the first game or second game in the T4, T5 and T6 in randoms. I find at least the low tier ships perform very well in their anti DD role. Have only played the T7 once in Randoms and got caught out in it, but have played it a fair bit in Ranked and have over 70% WR in it. The ships are very much focused on player skill and how you pick you fights and use the tools the ship has to essentially disengage on demand. Not sure how good they will be in the higher tiers due to the existence of radar, but will find out next patch.

[invicta2012]

4 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Well considering that I got a kraken in the first game or second game in the T4, T5 and T6 in randoms. I find at least the low tier ships perform very well in their anti DD role. Have only played the T7 once in Randoms and got caught out in it, but have played it a fair bit in Ranked and have over 70% WR in it. The ships are very much focused on player skill and how you pick you fights and use the tools the ship has to essentially disengage on demand. Not sure how good they will be in the higher tiers due to the existence of radar, but will find out next patch.

That is the thing about the mid-tiers. Their smokes are not about wild YOLO runs, they're about escaping and surviving to do more damage later, especially picking off damaged DDs or Cruisers. You may get some mileage from that playstyle but I'm not seeing anything I can do as well with a French or German DD....

[GulvkluderGuld]

Only 7 games so far but like my Tarigo, although i miss the range from Yolo Emilio. 

High skill floor and ceiling, very dependent on proper positioning and enemy mistakes. They thrive in small skirmishes and on flanks with dispersed ships where they can pick isolated 1v1 with anyting that dont run a hydro. 

SAP is lethal to any overextended DD showing broadside and they keep the yolo emilio playstyle for dealing with BiggerBoats. Once enemy DDs angle the HE still works but dpm is on the low side.

Downside is very bad concealment which makes hunting DDs with any sort of back up a big no-no and in those situations the pasta DD is very useless. 

Looking forward to higher tiers because exhaust smoke and friendly radar lets Yolo Emilio do some silly things, and I expect these DDs will have the same options.

 

23 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

...but I'm not seeing anything I can do as well with a French or German DD....

How about....move around while smoked up? 

1) open water yolo with impunity where any french DD would lose substantial health, italian DDs dont (obvious for Yolo emilio owners). Germans cant do it at all.

2a) fuel smoke + kite away while killing enemy DD who tries to charge into hydro/proximity/yolo range after getting spotted (works even with enemy CV spotting), or simply

2b) after enemy DD fired, use fuel smoke and friendly spotting to kill it without taking damage.

3) Gun down DD and force a smoke, go instantly unspotted once it smokes up (no french or german DD can usually do that). Wait for it to re-emerge and shoot, then either instantly unspotted when it sinks, or do 2)

4) I have more ideas for higher tier, but will just stop here.

 

[SodaBubbles]

8 hours ago, Verblonde said:

Early days, and (of course) I suck:

• Similarly to you, I've only played the lower tiers in Coop; my impression of them is that they'll be hard work against real people - the gun range is very manly (short), and they aren't terribly sneaky. They do have basic versions of the smoke + YOLO methodology seen on YOLO Emilio, but the engine boost duration is too short to make much use of.
• I've given the T9 a bit more of a proper run-out, although I'm still in single figures battles against real people. She's fun, but wouldn't be my first pick against real people; the engine boost duration (with coal mod) is sufficient for a reasonably convincing YOLO attack, although you seem to be better off playing a bit more conservatively most of the time. Stealth isn't great, so you get out-spotted by the obvious sneaks; dakka and torps are useful though.
• When you get into the less-short duration engine boosts part of the tree, the YOLO play style is fun, even if you don't get to use it that often against real people (assuming you're being sensible).

The cynic in me is wondering if the mid-tiers have been deliberately designed so as to be hard work against real people to encourage free xping to the point where the line gets more worthwhile?

 

Overall (so far; early days as said previously), they seem to be fun, but are unlikely to - IMO - displace too many people's go-to ships for 'serious' play. Competent players may be able to do rather more with them than I can though!

 

Also my impression. There is no way I am taking a DD with weak torps, useless smoke, and that astoundingly crappy gun range into Randoms. That poor design has to be deliberate, as you say, to increase the desire to FXP. 

[invicta2012]

22 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

How about....move around while smoked up? 

1) open water yolo with impunity where any french DD would lose substantial health, italian DDs dont (obvious for Yolo emilio owners). Germans cant do it at all.

2a) fuel smoke + kite away while killing enemy DD who tries to charge into hydro/proximity/yolo range after getting spotted (works even with enemy CV spotting), or simply

2b) after enemy DD fired, use fuel smoke and friendly spotting to kill it without taking damage.

3) Gun down DD and force a smoke, go instantly unspotted once it smokes up (no french or german DD can usually do that). Wait for it to re-emerge and shoot, then either instantly unspotted when it sinks, or do 2)

4) I have more ideas for higher tier, but will just stop here.

Italian DDs don't have the damage saturation mechanics, or the speed, of the French. They only really thrive on people not knowing what they are.

 

I'm sure a talented player can make use of them but I wouldn't bet on the Italian winning a 1 v 1 vs Z-39 if the player skill levels were matched.  The big German has a massive advantage in health, stealth, torp damage, consumables... Tarigo is a nice ship but once people know how to counter SAP it will fall behind the existing top tier VII DDs. 

[GulvkluderGuld]

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Italian DDs don't have the damage saturation mechanics, or the speed, of the French. They only really thrive on people not knowing what they are.

 

I'm sure a talented player can make use of them but I wouldn't bet on the Italian winning a 1 v 1 vs Z-39 if the player skill levels were matched.  The big German has a massive advantage in health, stealth, torp damage, consumables... Tarigo is a nice ship but once people know how to counter SAP it will fall behind the existing top tier VII DDs. 

You argued french and german DDs can do whatever the italians do, just as well whic makes no sense. First since I'd be hard pressed to find two lines with more different playstyles; second the italians are very different from both of them since they have fuel smoke and very short main battery range which means they are far better at dropping aggro than either of the 2 you mentioned.

 

I'm not arguing which is the better DD yet, but it'll be interesting to find out and I dont really play or care about anything below tier 8.

Looking at the numbers, the Tarigo has better 1v1 consumables (engine boost >> hydro, think of småland vs z52 although it's not quite so stupidly op) than Z39 and can compensate for the lower hp with better turret traverse and decent angles. It has better torpedo range which compensates for the worse concealment.  Hp advantage goes to Z39 but it is also a huge target.  If two players of equal skill fight instead of simply cancelling each other out which is more likely since neither probably will overextend, the fight will be in a series of small max range skirmishes which will be more to the advantage of Tarigo provided it mounts RPF and has SAP loaded. German Hydro DDs are some of the easiest DDs to counter. 

On the other hand I suspect french DDs might kick the italians butt. Personally I would prefer to be in Shiratsuyu or Haida.

 

[invicta2012]

8 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

I'm not arguing which is the better DD yet, but it'll be interesting to find out and I dont really play or care about anything below tier 8.

You'll enjoy Cuniberti, as she has more a comfortable gun range; still a relatively weak torp ship, though and the MM becomes more challenging. 

 

I *do* play mid tiers, though and I can't say I like Aviere much at all, she's a sort of scavenger DD that only starts to influence a game in the later stages, when it may be too late... a clever opponent will be able to negate her SAP, esp. with her horrid gun range. Tarigo I will keep for the aesthetics (and her event perma camo) but there are better existing options. 

[Yedwy]

Meh

 

ROF is way to low to trade properly, they might be good for a quick salvo or two then run but vs stuff that has heal its kinda moot

[GulvkluderGuld]

9 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

You'll enjoy Cuniberti, as she has more a comfortable gun range; still a relatively weak torp ship, though and the MM becomes more challenging. 

 

I *do* play mid tiers, though and I can't say I like Aviere much at all, she's a sort of scavenger DD that only starts to influence a game in the later stages, when it may be too late... a clever opponent will be able to negate her SAP, esp. with her horrid gun range. Tarigo I will keep for the aesthetics (and her event perma camo) but there are better existing options. 

Thanks for the tip.  I already like Tarigo because of the control it brings over the engagements and because of the mobility. And maybe because I'm so used to regrinding the japanese gunboats and I use the guns of Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu quite alot to take stronger gunboats down with incremental trades.  Havn't got Avieri but I do have Yolo Emilio and it has an enourmous toolbox. Tbh I find the italian DDs much stronger tier for tier than the cruisers were if the Tarigo is anything to go by.

 

At higher tiers I'm worried about the lack of a heal and stronger dpm of gunboats will make the life of italian DDs hard. Things like Daring, Småland and Ragnar.

[GulvkluderGuld]

On 4/21/2022 at 12:17 AM, invicta2012 said:

Italian DDs don't have the damage saturation mechanics, or the speed, of the French. They only really thrive on people not knowing what they are.

 

I'm sure a talented player can make use of them but I wouldn't bet on the Italian winning a 1 v 1 vs Z-39 if the player skill levels were matched. 

Just met a mogador player of equal skill who disrespectfully tried to charge my Tarigo down.

In an optimal kiting situation with friendly spotting available, the Tarigo can than hold its own against a Mogador an trade evenly or come out slightly ahead using SAP. Didnt expect that tbh.

Dont know what it is about french DDs that inspire disrespectful play, but he got handed his a$$.

 

Also Tarigo is much stronger than italian cruisers on tier 7 in my hand. I like it quite a lot. Would happily take it against most T7 opponents:

 

[lup3s]

On 4/20/2022 at 2:04 PM, Leo_Apollo11 said:

The Tier VII DD "Luca Tarigo" I am grinding in "Narai" (just like I did with Pan Asian cruiser "Chumphon"). I can do 100.000 - 150.000 damage without problem but I don't like the ship and I don't think that it would work in both "Random" and/or "Ranked"... 

 

 

What is your experience with them?

 

I playd the T7 in Randoms and did quite well with it - and I liked it (@ClappingLollies can attest to that ).

I actually liked it that much that I may assign a captain permanently to the L.Tarigo - so i have a DD to play at T7 besides Haida.

 

I think the short range is often a blessing instead of a curse; you can disengage very easily so I think it's a good DD for "hit-and-run" tactics.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

I finished the grind ("Ranked  Bronze") of the Tier VIII "Vittorio Cuniberti" from the 100% stock.

 

28 Battles

18 Victories

10 Defeats

 

The result was more than OK (almost 65% WinRate) but I can't say that I really really like the ship (torpedoes reload quickly but they are just few of them and they lack the punch - the guns are OK-ish especially in SAP but reload is full 6 seconds)... also possibly because I only have 13-point captain in her (he is also grinding from initial 6 points)...

 

 

Now "Adriatico" at Tier IX ...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[JohnMac79]

[Aragathor]

29 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

I would like to point out that manure has many uses and should not be compared unfavorably to what WG created with the ITA DDs.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

I finished the grind of the new Italian DD Tier IX "Adriatico" in "Ranked Bronze" - so the line is finished!

 

On Friday I had 65% WinRate with "Vittorio Cuniberti".

 

I didn't like her.

 

 

On Saturday I had barely 40% with "Adriatico".

 

I liked her!

 

At the end I had 18-point captain on her (now transferred to new Tier X "Attilio Regolo") fully torpedo specced (torp reload 66 seconds).

 

The guns are still 6 second reload but the SAP has heavy punch and many enemy destroyers paid their mistake trying to duel with me...

 

 

I will try the new Tier X "Attilio Regolo" next...

 

 

BTW, the playerbase in "Ranked Bronze" went to absolute terribad on Saturday... the level of incompetence and utter stupidity I saw is not describable... my problem was that the "Adriatico" is simply not to carry ship in 6 vs. 6 "Ranked" and when my team screwed up the only thing I could do is stay on top and not lose star...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

[Yedwy]

On 5/21/2022 at 2:24 PM, JohnMac79 said:

This

[Fastmotion]

On 4/20/2022 at 1:04 PM, Leo_Apollo11 said:

I was able to reach the Tier VII via the "Italian Tokens" and have played at least 1 battle in CoOp with each of them. For CoOp they performed OK-ish but nothing special.

Can you explain why do you play Coop and nor Randoms or Ranked Gold league?

Is there anything better in Coop?

[lup3s]

16 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

Can you explain why do you play Coop and nor Randoms or Ranked Gold league?

Is there anything better in Coop?

 

Because it is Coop; so you don't (really) have to deal with the bullcrap that are CVs, Subs, T11s, and Arms Race.

 

 

 

OT:

 

I like the L. Tarigo, and I'm liking the V. Cuniberti so far.

Fast boys with the superior ammunition, exhaust smoke perfect for DD engagements, and workable torpedoes