Random battles unplayable for DDs

[GulvkluderGuld]

Every game 1-2 subs. I'm ready to throw my monitor out the window after 3-4 games in DDs and Sejong. There is nothing but frustration to be had in this game after subs came back.

After 5 years of WoWs I finally had enough, not even CV reeeWork got me to quit. I'll continue to play sub-free modes like Ranked, but once that get infested too its time for a break.

 

DDs cant spot them since they can just dive or use dophining.

DDs take ages catching them since they sail 25-30 knots submerged depending on nation.

DDs cant close the distance means they cant fight them.

And if by some miracle depth charges connect which is about as frequent as I get a Liquidator achievement (if that is still in the game), they dont kill the sub).

 

Meanwhile sub can ping every 10ish seconds and homing torps are almost undodgeable and easily one-shots DDs. Not to meantion shotgunning is by dolphining is even more broken.

 

 

Solution?

1) everyone play sub once a day, sail in the middle and suicide so wg finally buff them overboard and make the server burn.

2) everyone play subs seriously to mine salt and drive all the players away from randoms to force a them nerfed.

3) quit

 

Opinions?

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

I play mostly DDs and I just go about my way after realizing there is no counter for DDs against subs. So just go your way and play your game and let the Sub frustration unleash on the BBs, CVs and cruisers. Subs rarely bother DDs to hard to keep track on, unless you are sitting in a smokescreen.

 

Tried to "hunt"  Subs many times in a DD and its useless. You just circle around like a retard whole game and get nothing done, you're not even good for your team.

 

So just don't bother.

[Verblonde]

1 minute ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Opinions?

As of now (speaking as a DD main):

• Play at antisocial hours; there seem to be fewer submarines around then.
• Report anyone playing submarines in PvP, and then stop playing when you run out of reports (better for the blood pressure to stop before frustration levels get too high).
• Play modes without submarines, if possible.
• Play other things (I'm a few hours into my second play-through of Tiny Tina at the moment)...
• Spend less: if WG see an incontrovertible correlation between submarines and a drop in spending, it's possible they may re-think; that said, I think it unlikely, they seem to be under a major delusion apropos the popularity of submarines, to judge from the attempted gaslighting we're seeing. Either way, still spend less - it'll be less annoying if submarines continue as is; you'll have wasted less money.

 

[J0tt]

Quoting the typical DD player: "Just dodge."

 

You think it's fun to play games with 4-5 DDs all the time as a cruiser or BB? I feed on your tears.

[GulvkluderGuld]

44 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

I play mostly DDs and I just go about my way after realizing there is no counter for DDs against subs. So just go your way and play your game and let the Sub frustration unleash on the BBs, CVs and cruisers. Subs rarely bother DDs to hard to keep track on, unless you are sitting in a smokescreen.

 

Tried to "hunt"  Subs many times in a DD and its useless. You just circle around like a retard whole game and get nothing done, you're not even good for your team.

 

So just don't bother.

Thats my experience with most of them too. 

Sometimes though they either have working brains or sit in the caps just to be difficult. 

Or they ping smokescreens and launch their dumb homing torps at it if you sit and try to spam some HE.

In those cases they obstruct gameplay quite effectively. 

 

Ended up contributing to the BB extermination by playing Asashio or other DDs with long range torps. 

[Animalul2012]

If you thing destroyers are in a bad spot then you have not yet tried a tier 9 cruiser. I am certain that they will have fun facing those 457-510mm battleships that citadel them from the [edited]from 20km or they do 6-7k damage with 1 shell....did I mention that besides the trash armor some of them like to burn for 60 seconds?? Quite amazing how people notice only petro being difficult to citadel or kremlin but Hannover with its 420 mm belt goes unnoticed or satsuma with its 460 mm citadel because why not? You better bring a slava or a 457 armed BB cause you will have no hope of damaging them while broadside.

[COPlUM]

>Sail up to a ship, there literally isn't a game mechanic that would allow this ship to know you're coming in any way/shape/form
>Surface briefly 1km from the ship you're about to shotgun
>Shotgun it to death with torpedoes
>The worst thing that can happen to you is your prey spotted you briefly before his death -& his teammates shoot you but you can dive in the time it takes for their shells to land
>Is your team losing? Woah, we can't have that. Just dolphin around, keep them permanently spotted while being immune to all forms of spotting and/or damage
>Oh no, 7 ships driving circles on top of me, they are so desperate to get rid of me they are getting slaughtered by my team, 17 of their depth charges took 3K of my HP, I best get out of here
>Obviously I will dolphin away so my team can finish slaughtering them as I walk away

[CV_SUB_Report_Blacklist]

unplayable for dds ? 

 

so how is the feel been torped and outspotted ? you did the same to others past years 

 

i dont find it hard to kill subs with my dds .. elbing and marcue ...

 

the only threat is when another enemy nearby shooting :D

[Sunleader]

8 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Every game 1-2 subs. I'm ready to throw my monitor out the window after 3-4 games in DDs and Sejong. There is nothing but frustration to be had in this game after subs came back.

After 5 years of WoWs I finally had enough, not even CV reeeWork got me to quit. I'll continue to play sub-free modes like Ranked, but once that get infested too its time for a break.

 

DDs cant spot them since they can just dive or use dophining.

DDs take ages catching them since they sail 25-30 knots submerged depending on nation.

DDs cant close the distance means they cant fight them.

And if by some miracle depth charges connect which is about as frequent as I get a Liquidator achievement (if that is still in the game), they dont kill the sub).

 

Meanwhile sub can ping every 10ish seconds and homing torps are almost undodgeable and easily one-shots DDs. Not to meantion shotgunning is by dolphining is even more broken.

 

 

Solution?

1) everyone play sub once a day, sail in the middle and suicide so wg finally buff them overboard and make the server burn.

2) everyone play subs seriously to mine salt and drive all the players away from randoms to force a them nerfed.

3) quit

 

Opinions?

 

Then Dont Play DDs.

Simple as that.

 

WG Works by Meta Statistics.

If People keep Playing DDs anyways. Then for WG everything is fine.

 

If everyone stops Playing DDs or if DDs suddenly massively drop in their Performance. Then WG will start doing something about it.

If you guys just keep Playing anyways and only complain in the Forum. WG wont do anything.

[OldPappy]

7 hours ago, J0tt said:

Quoting the typical DD player: "Just dodge."

 

You think it's fun to play games with 4-5 DDs all the time as a cruiser or BB? I feed on your tears.

Dds are easily countered but subs are not. Dds can be killed easily if you know what you are doing. DD torps can be avoided with the good old aswd hack. Map awerenss tells you nicely how close the dd is. 
And in a cruiser the dd should fear you!

 

The dds spots continuesly for the team. The dd caps. The dd counters enemy dds. 
 

Without a dd ”screen” forcing a sub to close up to bba submerged and severely limits the time the sub has before it has to resurface, the subs can come close to you on surface. Dive and have all the time in the world to kill you. 

[WalkingDutchman]

I will trade you all your sub games for all my CV games. Yeah subs are annoying but nothing pisses me off more than flyswatting for the majority of the battle.

[DaBung]

My Kleber would have words about the title of this thread and I am not even that good. I think you just need to get out of the mentality that DDs are just there to spot and sling torps. 
 

I don’t fear subs, they miss 90% of the time and you can basically just ignore them as they waste torps on you. I consider them a marginal nuisance due to the spotting and the odd time they torp or ram me as a drive over them, do I think they are well balanced? No! But CVs & Petro are much worse. 

[Panocek]

12 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

I play mostly DDs and I just go about my way after realizing there is no counter for DDs against subs. So just go your way and play your game and let the Sub frustration unleash on the BBs, CVs and cruisers. Subs rarely bother DDs to hard to keep track on, unless you are sitting in a smokescreen.

 

Tried to "hunt"  Subs many times in a DD and its useless. You just circle around like a retard whole game and get nothing done, you're not even good for your team.

 

So just don't bother.

 

12 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Every game 1-2 subs. I'm ready to throw my monitor out the window after 3-4 games in DDs and Sejong. There is nothing but frustration to be had in this game after subs came back.

After 5 years of WoWs I finally had enough, not even CV reeeWork got me to quit. I'll continue to play sub-free modes like Ranked, but once that get infested too its time for a break.

 

DDs cant spot them since they can just dive or use dophining.

DDs take ages catching them since they sail 25-30 knots submerged depending on nation.

DDs cant close the distance means they cant fight them.

And if by some miracle depth charges connect which is about as frequent as I get a Liquidator achievement (if that is still in the game), they dont kill the sub).

 

Meanwhile sub can ping every 10ish seconds and homing torps are almost undodgeable and easily one-shots DDs. Not to meantion shotgunning is by dolphining is even more broken.

 

 

Solution?

1) everyone play sub once a day, sail in the middle and suicide so wg finally buff them overboard and make the server burn.

2) everyone play subs seriously to mine salt and drive all the players away from randoms to force a them nerfed.

3) quit

 

Opinions?

There are destroyers and there are British destroyers, thats big difference. Concealment, agility, flexible smokes against CVs, Hydro and best ASW package out there. And in Daring case, nasty guns too.

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

12 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Subs rarely bother DDs to hard to keep track on

What about the countless videos where the DDs actually go for the caps and get insta-blapped / shotgunned by subs? It is a thing.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I don't play DD's much these days, my former favorite class, but I hardly think it's unplayable for DD's. I think many players are just not up to it's harsh demands.

[BanzaiPiluso]

13 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

You just circle around like a retard

You know, I used that word once here and got some punishment from the admins.

[DaBung]

3 hours ago, Von_Pruss said:

What about the countless videos where the DDs actually go for the caps and get insta-blapped / shotgunned by subs? It is a thing.

if this is happening, the DD made a mistake. 
 

As Kleber if I am capping, I am there long before subs can do anything at the start… otherwise I shouldn’t be in cap anyway and good luck hitting 45-55kt Kleber. 
 

If I am daring, just hydro, DC & smoke combined with the excellent manoeuvrability and I don’t fear subs at all. They are only a problem if I am spotted by radar/hydro/planes, in which case the danger is the ship with those abilities, whether it was the sub’s torps , guns or planes that dearth the final blow is somewhat immaterial. 

Only time I care about sub is when one is spotting me in an annoying place, but shima has been able to do that since forever.  

 

Radar and CVS are way stronger the subs and a fear them way more. 

[venderbomb]

15 hours ago, J0tt said:

Quoting the typical DD player: "Just dodge."

 

You think it's fun to play games with 4-5 DDs all the time as a cruiser or BB? I feed on your tears.

With all the 457 kicking about these days, how dare you compare the pain of cruisers with BBs!!!☹

[WWDragon]

5 minutes ago, DaBung said:

if this is happening, the DD made a mistake.

I am a bad player and dont go single minded caping zones, what I do is get close and observe the situation in the cap.

 

There is the mentality "DDs must cap" and that causes players to either being pressured into going into a cap or thinking they should cap before doing anything, this is bad because with radar and hydro they can be spotted and then focused fired.

 

Yes, the DD made a mistake if that happens because its not as if that didnt happened before subs existed in the game.

 

I doubt subs are "hunting" DDs but rather subs now are giving the wrong idea that "DDs have to hunt subs" so they try to sink then, the sub is naturally spotting the DD and then his teammates just sink it, some DD players appear to not understand the concepts of concealment and spotting and think they are the "Ninja class" and can just turn invisible at will.

[Hirohito]

1 hour ago, WWDragon said:

I doubt subs are "hunting" DDs but rather subs now are giving the wrong idea that "DDs have to hunt subs" so they try to sink then, the sub is naturally spotting the DD and then his teammates just sink it, some DD players appear to not understand the concepts of concealment and spotting and think they are the "Ninja class" and can just turn invisible at will.

You can be a significant threat to a target and  hunt it without killing it.

 

The problem with what you wrote above is, it nullifies the one advantage DDs are balanced around, which is their concealment vs. other ship types.
A sub outspotting a DD is very dangerous to the DD and effectively zones out the DD from parts of the map, making it inefficient at what it is supposed to do (spotting, screening, taking map control and capping).
A majority of the playerbase don't seem to grasp the concept of using concealment as a weapon, but used right by a decent player, outspotting (and keeping the target outspotted) is as dangerous as being able to outgun your target.
Which is why you see the average gunboat DDs balanced around worse concealment than torpedo DDs, and good concealment DD players actually being a serious threat to supposedly stronger gunboat DDs.
Most shimas might be 17900 hp and have a WR of 44% in randoms, but a good one is dangerous to a gunboat DD because he denies map space by keeping the gunboat lit while staying dark himself.

This becomes problematic for DDs vs (competent) subs, because not only do subs like U-2501 have way better conceal than the vast majority of all T10 DDs, the sub can also further reduce that conceal at will by going to periscope depth, and disengage completely by diving further.
A DD has smoke (if they even have that), and is still vulnerable within that smoke, and denies the use of another smoke for the next few minutes.
Going after the sub in a DD is often suicidal (because of travel distance while spotted, the speed of the sub, and the high tankiness of current subs).
This therefore leaves one good option for the DD captain = disengaging from the sub, who has now successfully zoned out the DD, and can keep doing so to grab even more map space due to threat from outspotting.
At that point, the main strength and role of the DD in this game has essentially been nullified, and you are now sailing a floating barge with the lowest average damage in the game.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

19 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Thats my experience with most of them too. 

Sometimes though they either have working brains or sit in the caps just to be difficult. 

Or they ping smokescreens and launch their dumb homing torps at it if you sit and try to spam some HE.

In those cases they obstruct gameplay quite effectively. 

 

Ended up contributing to the BB extermination by playing Asashio or other DDs with long range torps. 

Asaship, Somers and Halllands are quite fun to play still. Just do your thing and give Faak all to the team.

 

Gotta love the fact that on top of all the rest of the BS DDs has to deal with (CVs, radar cruisers radar bbs, radar dds, hydro bbs, hydro dds, hydro cruisers, bbs with long range torps, other dds, Sherman´s, Ragnars) They can also now enjoy pings coming out of nowhere at the start of the game just closing in on a cap followed by 4 very angry homing torps, WHILE NOT HAVING BEEN SPOTTED ONCE in the battle?!?! See, thats just a "skillfull" Sub player spamming pings in every direction on cooldown and sees what sticks....... So, then you are suddenly pinged and homing torps pops out of thin air, with no skill or the enemy dd not even been spotted yet.

 

Just another nail in the coffin for DD players. I really hope my follow DD players just ignore all caps in all games in the future and all suggestions from teammates thet they should try and "hunt" that pesky Sub just sitting in our lines with zero counterplay. Just spot and damage farm for the 5 min the game last and you might have a sliver of fun playing this game.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

7 hours ago, Panocek said:

 

There are destroyers and there are British destroyers, thats big difference. Concealment, agility, flexible smokes against CVs, Hydro and best ASW package out there. And in Daring case, nasty guns too.

Still doesn't mean much when you cant see your target and your perma spotted and the rest of the red team os shooting you. Maybe if you corner a sub in on corner of the map 20 km away from closest ship. Had a Kitakaze chasing me for 4 min in my Balau the other day, just sailed him into my friendly's and when he smoke up i just pinged and torped him in his smoke. He couldn't do jack and that one of the most OP DDs.

 

Dont Daring have like 6.0 or 6.1 km detect?

 

And even IF Daring would be semi decent against a target he can't see unless on top of him, he still waste a match doing jack all just chasing his tail around, so I would never bother with WGs BS minigame, I rather have fun and play my Daring the way it supposed to be played.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

7 hours ago, Von_Pruss said:

What about the countless videos where the DDs actually go for the caps and get insta-blapped / shotgunned by subs? It is a thing.

Thats why a DDs should never even look at a cap the first 4-5 min of the game. Because everyting designed to kill the DD is sitting there for the first minutes. Better to spot and torp and deal with caps after they get tired.

[Hirohito]

8 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Thats why a DDs should never even look at a cap the first 4-5 min of the game. Because everyting designed to kill the DD is sitting there for the first minutes. Better to spot and torp and deal with caps after they get tired.

I agree and disagree at the  same time.

No you should not necessarily try to cap at all cost during the early  stages of the  game, but as a good DD captain you should (in most DDs, not all) look to wrestle for control of the cap area.
With that I mean, having a discouraging presence there so that they don't pick it up for free, and try to zone the enemy DD out and away from the cap so that you get enough map control that you can decide whether you want to use that space for additional spotting or picking up the cap later on.

 

In a nutshell:
Don't be the yolo shima that dies 3 minutes into the game as you smoke up in the cap in front of a DD and radar, but also don't be the sniper shima that ignores the cap area and plays the 1 or 10 line looking to score torp hits on BBs 12 kms away.

[Panocek]

10 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Still doesn't mean much when you cant see your target and your perma spotted and the rest of the red team os shooting you. Maybe if you corner a sub in on corner of the map 20 km away from closest ship. Had a Kitakaze chasing me for 4 min in my Balau the other day, just sailed him into my friendly's and when he smoke up i just pinged and torped him in his smoke. He couldn't do jack and that one of the most OP DDs.

 

Dont Daring have like 6.0 or 6.1 km detect?

 

And even IF Daring would be semi decent against a target he can't see unless on top of him, he still waste a match doing jack all just chasing his tail around, so I would never bother with WGs BS minigame, I rather have fun and play my Daring the way it supposed to be played.

That is why presence of Hydro on DD is critical - surfaced sub vs Daring is 5.6/5.9km against 6.0km, with surfaced sub being able to be RPF'd. The moment sub goes to periscope, it uses aerial detection instead surface, which is 2.8km for Daring. On periscope subs can be freely picked up by Hydro, which is 3km for Brits. If sub crash dives, then it still can be picked up in 2km radius by Hydro.

 

Entire situation begins with sub player being excessively horny for damage, instead playing like good torpedo turret he should, next to or behind friendly DDs

 

Kita is "overpowered" for being good gunboat with nasty torpedo backup and without being completely crippled in concealment like Friesland twins are for example, while retaining 30mm HE pen and plenty of hp. As actual destroyer, she's still kinda cripple with her clumsiness and still 6.1km concealment.