CV_SUB_Report_Blacklist Players 1,045 posts 21,881 battles Report post #1 Posted April 9, 2022 hi , i know that over penetration is when shell penetrate the armor and go out the ship from the other side but isnt this makes more damage ? shooting dds for example with AP , most hits are OverPen that makes me wonder , how a big shell like a battleship shells just Overpen with low damage ? aside from that .. i play elbing , and i love it ... but the problem when i face a dd ... almost ALL hits with AP on dds are OverPen ... Veeery low damage ,,, what is the idea in that ? elbing has low HE damage , and good AP , but AP doesnt work on dds .. .sigh ... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[I-J-N] Karasu_Browarszky [I-J-N] Players 13,025 posts Report post #2 Posted April 9, 2022 Short explanation: it's frustration. Slightly longer short explanation: the target armour is too thin or non-existant so the shell just crashes through. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BW-UK] Bubba_S Players 205 posts 29,624 battles Report post #3 Posted April 9, 2022 16 minutes ago, BlueMerry said: hi , i know that over penetration is when shell penetrate the armor and go out the ship from the other side but isnt this makes more damage ? shooting dds for example with AP , most hits are OverPen that makes me wonder , how a big shell like a battleship shells just Overpen with low damage ? aside from that .. i play elbing , and i love it ... but the problem when i face a dd ... almost ALL hits with AP on dds are OverPen ... Veeery low damage ,,, what is the idea in that ? elbing has low HE damage , and good AP , but AP doesnt work on dds .. .sigh ... AP shells have a timed fuse. if the armour is too thin, the shell punshes through and the shell explodes on the other side outside of the ship. Resoulting in only low kinetic damage to the ship Edit: This was not excactly correct. If armour is too thin, the shells passes through and don’t explode. If armour is thick enough to arm the shell, the timing tells whether the shell explodes inside the ship or not. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CV_SUB_Report_Blacklist Players 1,045 posts 21,881 battles Report post #4 Posted April 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said: Short explanation: it's frustration. Slightly longer short explanation: the target armour is too thin or non-existant so the shell just crashes through. im sorry , i didnt understand ( just crashes through ) ... if a bullet Over penetrate a human body , it will destroy everything on its way . this logic not the same ? :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THESO] SV_Kompresor Beta Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters 5,868 posts Report post #5 Posted April 9, 2022 Just now, BlueMerry said: im sorry , i didnt understand ( just crashes through ) ... if a bullet Over penetrate a human body , it will destroy everything on its way . this logic not the same ? :D Using armor piercing ammo on infantry that has no body armor can cause less damage than a non AP amo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[I-J-N] Karasu_Browarszky [I-J-N] Players 13,025 posts Report post #6 Posted April 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, BlueMerry said: im sorry , i didnt understand ( just crashes through ) ... if a bullet Over penetrate a human body , it will destroy everything on its way . this logic not the same ? :D Ships are not quite like human bodies but.. I guess in some ways you can make that analogy. Think of overpen as a small caliber high velocity bullet passing through a non-vital area and a penetration hit as a large caliber bullet hitting a vital organ. Add an explosive charge to the latter... Somewhat grim analogies though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CV_SUB_Report_Blacklist Players 1,045 posts 21,881 battles Report post #7 Posted April 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bubba_S said: AP shells have a timed fuse. if the armour is too thin, the shell punshes through and the shell explodes on the other side outside of the ship. Resoulting in only low kinetic damage to the ship i didnt know it explodes ... that mean it can start a fire in the ship :D looking at AP in the game made me feel its just a Heavy metal bullet thing ... and WG made it without explosion when shooting islands ... thanks :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BW-UK] Bubba_S Players 205 posts 29,624 battles Report post #8 Posted April 9, 2022 https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration for more reading 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[I-J-N] Karasu_Browarszky [I-J-N] Players 13,025 posts Report post #9 Posted April 9, 2022 To avoid this issue, I guess you'd need to be sure you hit a citadel or use HE shells. I just hate having to keep switching cause I always have the wrong type loaded in... I'd much prefer to have both types ready in alternate turrets/barrels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BW-UK] Bubba_S Players 205 posts 29,624 battles Report post #10 Posted April 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said: To avoid this issue, I guess you'd need to be sure you hit a citadel or use HE shells. I just hate having to keep switching cause I always have the wrong type loaded in... I'd much prefer to have both types ready in alternate turrets/barrels. This is not entirely correct. If you hit Smolensk or Austin for example at broadside at the citadel, you will arm the shell, but the ship is so small that the shell goes through the ships citadel and explodes outsides on the backside Thats why when 406 or bigger guns shots you with AP in your Smolensk or Austin, you should show broadside to get overpenetration. If you angle, the traweldistance of the shell will be enough for it to arm inside the ship and you will get citadel damage. As you see, this is the only time that showing broadside is good 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HABUS] Chaoskraehe Freibeuter, WoWs Wiki Team 1,291 posts 10,716 battles Report post #11 Posted April 9, 2022 Vor 16 Minuten, BlueMerry sagte: im sorry , i didnt understand ( just crashes through ) ... if a bullet Over penetrate a human body , it will destroy everything on its way . this logic not the same ? :D Overpen: The shell doesn't explode or explode outside of the ship Penetration: The Shell explodes in the ship. What do you think deals more damage, a bullet that wents through a human body or one that explodes inside the body? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[OGHF] Cyclops_ Players 2,108 posts 36,213 battles Report post #12 Posted April 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, BlueMerry said: im sorry , i didnt understand ( just crashes through ) ... if a bullet Over penetrate a human body , it will destroy everything on its way . this logic not the same ? :D Bullets are different to Shells, a bullet is designed so that when it penetrates a human body it starts to rotate as it goes through the different soft and hard parts of the body and to cause as much damage so as to kill or maim the body it enters, not very nice 😔 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[I-J-N] Karasu_Browarszky [I-J-N] Players 13,025 posts Report post #13 Posted April 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bubba_S said: This is not entirely correct. If you hit Smolensk or Austin for example at broadside at the citadel, you will arm the shell, but the ship is so small that the shell goes through the ships citadel and explodes outsides on the backside Thats why when 406 or bigger guns shots you with AP in your Smolensk or Austin, you should show broadside to get overpenetration. If you angle, the traweldistance of the shell will be enough for it to arm inside the ship and you will get citadel damage. As you see, this is the only time that showing broadside is good Thanks for the correction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[I-J-N] Karasu_Browarszky [I-J-N] Players 13,025 posts Report post #14 Posted April 9, 2022 Just now, Cyclops_ said: Bullets are different to Shells, a bullet is designed so that when it penetrates a human body it starts to rotate as it goes through the different soft and hard parts of the body and to cause as much damage so as to kill or maim the body it enters, not very nice 😔 Not that shells hitting a ship are much nicer though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[OGHF] Cyclops_ Players 2,108 posts 36,213 battles Report post #15 Posted April 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said: Not that shells hitting a ship are much nicer though... True, but a ship has 2 basic types of shell the HE is designed to explode on impact, even water will cause it to explode. An AP shell is armed when it impacts it’s target the shell is armed and depending on the fuse duration the shell will explode inside the ship, but there are 2 main exceptions. 1/ if the ship is slim enough the shell travels through the ship and out the other side causing little damage. 2/ if the armour is to thick the shell will just shatter against the ships side. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #16 Posted April 9, 2022 37 minutes ago, BlueMerry said: hi , i know that over penetration is when shell penetrate the armor and go out the ship from the other side but isnt this makes more damage ? Do you know what makes more damage than a hole? An explosion in that hole. 29 minutes ago, BlueMerry said: im sorry , i didnt understand ( just crashes through ) ... if a bullet Over penetrate a human body , it will destroy everything on its way . this logic not the same ? :D There are enough ways a bullet can go through a body without killing the body. Now imagine someone sticks an explosive in that hole in the body and detonates it... 27 minutes ago, BlueMerry said: i didnt know it explodes ... that mean it can start a fire in the ship :D looking at AP in the game made me feel its just a Heavy metal bullet thing ... and WG made it without explosion when shooting islands ... thanks :) 18k battles... 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CV_SUB_Report_Blacklist Players 1,045 posts 21,881 battles Report post #17 Posted April 9, 2022 is there an explosion effect in the game for the shell when it over pens ? or it is too small to notice :D 11 minutes ago, ColonelPete said: Do you know what makes more damage than a hole? An explosion in that hole. There are enough ways a bullet can go through a body without killing the body. Now imagine someone sticks an explosive in that hole in the body and detonates it... 18k battles... thanks god there is so nice people here answered before you ^_^ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RODS] Ronchabale Players 3,002 posts 10,002 battles Report post #18 Posted April 9, 2022 55 minutes ago, BlueMerry said: hi , i know that over penetration is when shell penetrate the armor and go out the ship from the other side but isnt this makes more damage ? shooting dds for example with AP , most hits are OverPen that makes me wonder , how a big shell like a battleship shells just Overpen with low damage ? aside from that .. i play elbing , and i love it ... but the problem when i face a dd ... almost ALL hits with AP on dds are OverPen ... Veeery low damage ,,, what is the idea in that ? elbing has low HE damage , and good AP , but AP doesnt work on dds .. .sigh ... Overpenetration is one factor in how WG "balans"(ed) damage inbetween ship classes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[I-J-N] Karasu_Browarszky [I-J-N] Players 13,025 posts Report post #19 Posted April 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, BlueMerry said: is there an explosion effect in the game for the shell when it over pens ? or it is too small to notice :D All I notice there isn't anything to notice... I suppose an overpen is slightly better than a ding or a miss. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[IDDQD] Flaky26 [IDDQD] Korzár 1,048 posts 15,457 battles Report post #20 Posted April 9, 2022 Před 15 minutami BlueMerry řekl/a: is there an explosion effect in the game for the shell when it over pens ? or it is too small to notice :D I have never seen an explosion after overpen. Btw if you hit thin armor (less than your threshold value) then your fuse doesn´t activate and shell doesn´t explode. So no explosion in that case. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[I-J-N] Karasu_Browarszky [I-J-N] Players 13,025 posts Report post #21 Posted April 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ronchabale said: Overpenetration is one factor in how WG "balans"(ed) damage inbetween ship classes Intriguing... I assume this is to balance the DPS potential of large caliber AP shells (and ships using them).. is there a similar WG "balans"(ed) in action to balance against rapid firing HE shells (and ships using them )? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RODS] Ronchabale Players 3,002 posts 10,002 battles Report post #22 Posted April 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said: Intriguing... I assume this is to balance the DPS potential of large caliber AP shells (and ships using them).. is there a similar WG "balans"(ed) in action to balance against rapid firing HE shells (and ships using them )? That would be the fire "chance" (you know that last shell that hits u just before u get out of range or into concealment when your damage con is on cooldown) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[VIBES] tocqueville8 Players 3,717 posts 39,413 battles Report post #23 Posted April 9, 2022 1 hour ago, BlueMerry said: elbing has low HE damage , and good AP , but AP doesnt work on dds .. .sigh ... It does work if they're a bit angled, instead of flat broadside. It's counterintuitive, but it works. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BW-UK] Bubba_S Players 205 posts 29,624 battles Report post #24 Posted April 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said: It does work if they're a bit angled, instead of flat broadside. It's counterintuitive, but it works. This is especially true against the european DD three, read Halland, Småland, Ragnar, and the t9 and 8. they are kinda fat and if u hit them a little angled, you get penetrationdamage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[AMOC] NewHorizons_1 [AMOC] Players 3,860 posts 46,919 battles Report post #25 Posted April 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Bubba_S said: AP shells have a timed fuse. if the armour is too thin, the shell punshes through and the shell explodes on the other side outside of the ship. Resoulting in only low kinetic damage to the ship Not entirely incorrect. Most overpens, as others have stated, are caused by the armour being too thin to arm the fuse so that the shell never explodes. But it can also happen when the armour is thick enough to arm the fuse. Some ships have a hull that is so narrow that a fast moving shell may actually arm, but it passes through the narrow ship so fast that it goes clean through and detonates outside the ship on the opposite side. Ie: the time spent inside the ship is less than the time delay of the shell's fuse. Smolensk I believe is a culprit for that, but you also probably also get the same effect when firing that the tip of a ship's bow. Probably explains why some ships (Italian & French BBs maybe?), with very high shell velocities, can suffer from more overpens than others. This also explains why Royal Navy light cruiser AP is effective against broadside DDs & Smolensk - it has a short fuse timer in addition to improved ricochet angles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
