what do you think about the revised submarine gameplay?

[CoffeeVendor]

hi with the new patches sub are back. I played a fair bit of sub on PTS and now that it's live, just want to hear what do you guys thing about the revised submarine?

For me, I still find the way of interaction with sub is fundamentally flawed - it's not a question of whether subs are over or under powered (there are plenty of parameters such as torp dmg, speed, dive capacity to tweak to make them balance on paper), but the interaction with them is very boring and seems more RNG based then skill based. It seems to me even if sub are perfectly "balanced" from statistics point of view (let's assume for the sake of argument this can be achieved), it is still a frustration experience to play against it.

 

I have made several suggestions in the survey after public test in the past, which is to put the sub in the convoy mode instead of random- which forces the subs to attack and let the surface ship defend the convoy (yeah Grey Hound moment). Haven't heard back and don't know what WG is planning tho.....

[Chips_uk]

Find it tedious to play against - and that's not top tier subs (don't think i've seen one yet).

 

Also, given players are trying to figure it out (or plain don't know) it can be extra irritating. Our destroyer in the last game was on top of the sub, they were circling each other basically... but despite being told to JUST SHOOT IT he kept waiting for his torp reload. Visible on mini map throughout.

 

The sub won vs the dd. 

 

 

I can kinda understand the OP ships that populate the game these days, you don't meet them all the time, you have similar on your team... so frustrations aside, you get on with it (and it's how WG make their money at outrageous prices)

 

But subs are TEDIOUS. If they start making the game too tedious/slow, then it stops being fun to play, which means stop playing. I'm comfortable with that as gaming is just an epic waste of time really :)

[Adm_Lindemann]

I just recently wrote into another topic: I hit a sub with 6 depth charges and she survived... Joke.

[Capra76]

Looks to me like they're fiddling round the edges trying to find a magic bullet when the whole concept is fundamentally flawed.

 

I've no interest in testing them further.

[BLUB__BLUB]

12 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Looks to me like they're fiddling round the edges trying to find a magic bullet when the whole concept is fundamentally flawed.

 

I've no interest in testing them further.

THIS. They have been told their "pinging guided torpedoes" don't fit the game about 100 times,

and that "just press DCP" is crap, but they still have them - so it is still crap. 

[Yedwy]

2 hours ago, CoffeeVendor said:

hi with the new patches sub are back. I played a fair bit of sub on PTS and now that it's live, just want to hear what do you guys thing about the revised submarine?

For me, I still find the way of interaction with sub is fundamentally flawed - it's not a question of whether subs are over or under powered (there are plenty of parameters such as torp dmg, speed, dive capacity to tweak to make them balance on paper), but the interaction with them is very boring and seems more RNG based then skill based. It seems to me even if sub are perfectly "balanced" from statistics point of view (let's assume for the sake of argument this can be achieved), it is still a frustration experience to play against it.

 

I have made several suggestions in the survey after public test in the past, which is to put the sub in the convoy mode instead of random- which forces the subs to attack and let the surface ship defend the convoy (yeah Grey Hound moment). Haven't heard back and don't know what WG is planning tho.....

As I said it in clan chat yesterday, I am not touching subs with a 10ft pole, only thing that interests me is getting rid of any in the red team ASAP so I can have a normal match, I can and do appreciate the historical side and might get some relevant ones freexp-ed for that purpose at some time, unless I leave the game that is but I am not playing this griefing s*it...

[BanzaiPiluso]

They are adding more tasks to the DDs, but also removing DDs from the game so one can't really cap, spot, harass and also go Sub hunting while avoiding CVs. It's too much.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 20 Stunden, Capra76 sagte:

Looks to me like they're fiddling round the edges trying to find a magic bullet when the whole concept is fundamentally flawed.

Wargaming have been handing submarines out for free, making sure that a gigantic bunch of noobs got their hands on them. Basically, this made sure the sub distribution has always been targeted to the worst, least skilled players in the game. And then Wargaming kept balancing them around the worst, least skilled players in the game. Which is what they are still doing. When every game developer with a modicum of sense will tell you immediately that $things need to be balanced around what the best, most highly skilled players can do with them.

It's a fundamental, really. A no-brainer. Axiomatic. Something only the ideologically challenged would ever try to revolt against.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I stopped thinking about these plonker developers actually 

[lovelacebeer]

The problem is WG just slightly tinkered at the edges without addressing the actual issues. 
 

They have not designed the game factoring in what makes submarine warfare interesting and are now desperately trying to shoehorn subs into the game without addressing the core concept. 

[Ronchabale]

No, this game is already a mess, subs will only make it worse

[_HomTanks_]

Didn't see 1 conscious good player playing subs yet. All subs i saw in randoms are either new players with games between 100-300 or bad to below avg player with wr of 40-46%. Surprising? Ofc not. This is WG's target player base.

 

Edit; I have proof ss of said sub players from the games. In case anyone is wondering....

[SkollUlfr]

9 hours ago, Capra76 said:

Looks to me like they're fiddling round the edges trying to find a magic bullet when the whole concept is fundamentally flawed.

 

they are desperately avoiding having to rebuild the entirety of the detection mechanics, which has been blatantly and painfully incapable for a long time.

[SodaBubbles]

9 hours ago, BanzaiPiluso said:

They are adding more tasks to the DDs, but also removing DDs from the game so one can't really cap, spot, harass and also go Sub hunting while avoiding CVs. It's too much.

 

...and having your DCP killed.

[ThePopesHolyFinger]

It appears that weegee think they have succeeded in polishing a turd.
They haven't.

[Citizen_Smith_]

Now if they had their own mode..... otherwise it's not fun and it's certainly not engaging.

[Gudgeon]

What has actually changed? Taking six torps in my Nelson from a sub with little counterplay, seemed familiar from the last "public test".

[Migantium_Mashum]

Notice your Poll does not include... WE DON'T WANT SUBS...

 

The majority of Polls I have seen show by overwhelming majority the players do not want Subs in the game unless in their own specific mode..

 

@YabbaCoe are WG so blind to all the Poll results about Subs, so blind you'll plough on regardless?

[YabbaCoe]

25 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

Notice your Poll does not include... WE DON'T WANT SUBS...

 

The majority of Polls I have seen show by overwhelming majority the players do not want Subs in the game unless in their own specific mode..

 

@YabbaCoe are WG so blind to all the Poll results about Subs, so blind you'll plough on regardless?

Hello. We gather all polls and feedback about relevant topics and we are sharing them with devs for consideration.

But I want to mention one thing. We have plenty of ways how and from where we are gathering feedback. Also, those results do not necessary mean, that we will exactly act upon that. 

 

Regarding DCP, we removed the need to "ping" for conventional torpedoes and homing torps are not dealing much damage in average. Also, all surface classes have a certain distance where the homing stops automatically. So there are plenty of situations, where you actually don't need to use DCP, like one fire f.e. At the same time, you can see the ping visually, so you can guess where the submarine is and once the submarine is hit, you can spot oil spills, so you can throw ASW planes on the place, where the submarine approximately is. If you hit with ASW atleast once, you will 100% deal flooding. Submarines have also only 3 options to use DCP themselves. Also the Dive Capacity was shortened by 1/3, so Sub can spend around 4 minutes underwater, in case it wasn't spotted. So it need tu surface eventually. And while on surface, it is very vulnerable.

So playing with submarine and deal a lot of damage is very difficult task as there are plenty ways how to fight enemy submarine. 

[Migantium_Mashum]

1 minute ago, YabbaCoe said:

Hello. We gather all polls and feedback about relevant topics and we are sharing them with devs for consideration.

But I want to mention one thing. We have plenty of ways how and from where we are gathering feedback. Also, those results do not necessary mean, that we will exactly act upon that.

But, by majority, Subs are not wanted and yet WG is relaunching them.

 

How do you explain that?

[Yedwy]

4 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

But, by majority, Subs are not wanted and yet WG is relaunching them.

 

How do you explain that?

Last sentece in your quoute sais it all m8

 

It litterally means - we will do what we want and if you dont support it you are wasting your time arguing

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

Uninstalled yesterday because of subs, CVs, super ships and support CVs. This is it.

[YabbaCoe]

6 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

But, by majority, Subs are not wanted and yet WG is relaunching them.

 

How do you explain that?

First we have our own development plans with release of certain ship lines, classes, maps, modes etc. 

After that, the fact, that half of people in this poll voted negatively doesn't mean, that majority of players simply don't want subs. Also data and results of various surveys are showing us, that while it probably won't be as popular class as BBs for example, it still have quite decent percentage of players who played and will be playing subs. I am not saying that everybody are and will be playing subs, but we have part of playerbase, that we ok with that. It is basically similar to CVs and honestly, we have plenty players that hate other of the "bigger" classes. So there will always be a ship, class, armament, mode, playstyle etc. that will be taken negatively by part of playerbase and our job is to make all of those features to be as balanced as possible and still deliver the nice experience of naval battles. 

[Migantium_Mashum]

11 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

First we have our own development plans with release of certain ship lines, classes, maps, modes etc. 

After that, the fact, that half of people in this poll voted negatively doesn't mean, that majority of players simply don't want subs. Also data and results of various surveys are showing us, that while it probably won't be as popular class as BBs for example, it still have quite decent percentage of players who played and will be playing subs. I am not saying that everybody are and will be playing subs, but we have part of playerbase, that we ok with that. It is basically similar to CVs and honestly, we have plenty players that hate other of the "bigger" classes. So there will always be a ship, class, armament, mode, playstyle etc. that will be taken negatively by part of playerbase and our job is to make all of those features to be as balanced as possible and still deliver the nice experience of naval battles. 

Are you for real?

 

I was seeing Polling with over 77% as high as 89% saying no Subs and in game I know of very few people who want them.

 

So basically it's another 'Up Yours' from WG 'we'll do as we please.'.... 

 

So 'profanity' the majority of players .... and you wonder why people have stopped spending on this game...

[DonnerPeePMatz]

subs are just destroy everything. plz depatch fast.