Dutch Cruisers - Airstrike - Respectful request for help.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Hello Forum!

I am currently on the tier 9 ship Johan De Witt. It is tough going, even in coop where I play.

Shiptool (https://shiptool.st/) says that amonsgt tier 9 tech tree cruisers, this ship is:-

-- 9th (of 12) in AP DPM

-- 10th (of 10) in HE DPM

-- 12th (of 12) in Horizontal dispersion

-- 12th (of) 12 in vertical dispersion

--  8th (of 12) in main battery Range

 

...So I need to get some benefit from AIRSTRIKE

 

Is there a good guide anywhere that will give me some assistance with using this properly? Please?

 

I've tried using the training room and experimenting bu nothing works for me unless the target ship is stationary. I must be constantly getting the lead all wrong  (or something).

[Yedwy]

Aiming airstrike itself is a trial and error learning thing, however if targets have half a braincell they will dodge most if not all of it unless as you said it yourself - you catch them camping… 

 

IMO

Duch CLs up to and including T5 are pretty nice for their tiers, amazing even…

T6/7 are meh to super meh

T8/9 are awfoul

T10 is meh squared

 

You simply give up 2 much for that gimmick that is unreliable at best and useless most od the time as coming into range of AS is usually a one way ticket to port, sure once every blue moon you make decent use of it but in return your guns that are still your main weapon are nerfed all the time to “balance it out” 

 

Also T8-10 are not even remotely strong enough to warrant long burn and shi** dispersion on T9/10 us just the final nail 

 

Oh and one more thing, if one just wants to bomb stuff D7P is way better then any other cruiser as she has 3 strikes with max range and speedboost to get out of dodge…

[SodaBubbles]

I am also on that thing. The bots cheat like crazy, which is one reason you're having trouble (same for me, also having problems). Again and again, they either go around or stop in front of the aiming area, which I had perfectly set.

The other issue with airstrike is that it is more or less impotent. In the unlikely event you hit, it does not do more damage than a single turret of your shells.

These ships would be better off with faster reload and no airstrike. I mean, I can take Roon with 11s reload and 20.5 km range and torps, and do a ton more damage. Ditto with St Louis, never mind any of the supercruisers. De Witt's armor is troll and its AA good, but that is the extent of its strengths.

 

The line is badly conceived. Airstrike should just be removed, and the guns upgraded to compensate. Then you can play to the line's strengths.

I am just grinding JdW in coop, its super unfun to play, and I will be glad when the grind is done.

[DDG_121]

Just a small change to the mechanic would solve many problems. 

 

We should be able to select the attack direction. 

[invicta2012]

8 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

The bots cheat like crazy, which is one reason you're having trouble (same for me, also having problems). Again and again, they either go around or stop in front of the aiming area, which I had perfectly set.

Yes, they do. Their torpedo and airstrike dodging skills are exceptional. This is why I gave up on the line and no longer have DZP. It just doesn't work in PVE. Why would I want to take out a half-finished gimmick boat when there are so many other, better options? 

 

8 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

The other issue with airstrike is that it is more or less impotent. In the unlikely event you hit, it does not do more damage than a single turret of your shells.

Well.... I've always thought of it as something you do after you've set a fire with your main guns. That way you have a chance of getting several permafires. But your guns are only OK-ish at setting fires, and with the bots able to dodge airstrikes for fun, it doesn't often work. 

 

8 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

The line is badly conceived. Airstrike should just be removed, and the guns upgraded to compensate.

It's not a very flexible line and I think WG wants it that way. Personally I'd like a choice of bomb drop patterns (wide/tight) with a change in the number of bombs and their pen value for each setting.

[ReDiR20]

Very good and unique line. On De Witt you get two airstrikes, which means you can use them to block the predicted path of enemy ship quite easily. Airstrike damage and fire chance is great. Ship is tanky and overall it's the best tech tree T9 cruiser

[Panocek]

9 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Oh and one more thing, if one just wants to bomb stuff D7P is way better then any other cruiser as she has 3 strikes with max range and speedboost to get out of dodge…

Ship that also happens to be permanently gone, as Dockyard ships are one-and-gone instances, not even loot boxes contain them and none of these ships are planned to return

[Yedwy]

41 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Ship that also happens to be permanently gone, as Dockyard ships are one-and-gone instances, not even loot boxes contain them and none of these ships are planned to return

Actually you dont know that, only WG knows what they are planning, they might add them in RB or for community token, gold, even make a collection dropping them after enough time has past... 

 

Anyway I was just saying it for people having her but maybe playing her rarely or not at all or thinking the T9-10 must be far better then D7P and going for the grind for that purpose alone... 

[Panocek]

5 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Actually you dont know that, only WG knows what they are planning, they might add them in RB or for community token, gold, even make a collection dropping them after enough time has past... 

 

Anyway I was just saying it for people having her but maybe playing her rarely or not at all or thinking the T9-10 must be far better then D7P and going for the grind for that purpose alone... 

One would have guessed Pay2Rco would make a comeback after 3 years by now

 

Also during last dockyard Yabba or other WG guy confirmed "dockyard" aren't planned to return, who cares it that includes existing famous ships

[Yedwy]

4 minutes ago, Panocek said:

One would have guessed Pay2Rco would make a comeback after 3 years by now

 

Also during last dockyard Yabba or other WG guy confirmed "dockyard" aren't planned to return, who cares it that includes existing famous ships

Actually there is a good possibility the P2R is the very reason we dont already have them back, she is the only T10 we had in there so far and she stirred up quite a sh*tstorm in her own right and she is alas the one that should go first...

 

Also no offence to our CM guys but they now squat about what the devs are planning more then say 2-3 patches in the future and even the things they do they cant disclose so taking any statements in that direction as fact is silly at best... 

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Yedwy said:

Actually there is a good possibility the P2R is the very reason we dont already have them back, she is the only T10 we had in there so far and she stirred up quite a sh*tstorm in her own right and she is alas the one that should go first...

 

Also no offence to our CM guys but they now squat about what the devs are planning more then say 2-3 patches in the future and even the things they do they cant disclose so taking any statements in that direction as fact is silly at best... 

And yet, none of the Dockyard ships have returned so word of our local CM team might not be completely unfounded

 

More so, given no Dockyard ship is particularly good or memorable, I can't help but notice they were balanced around price of "free". Especially as Anchorage and Odin quickly were one-upped by announcements of Rochester and Brandenburg shortly after their events ended. 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 11 Stunden, Yedwy sagte:

Aiming airstrike itself is a trial and error learning thing, however if targets have half a braincell they will dodge most if not all of it unless as you said it yourself - you catch them camping… 

 

...which only happens in co-op if the bots get stuck at an island.

 

In other words: Dutch cruisers and current co-op meta (dare I use that word?) don't work well together.

[tocqueville8]

I only have three advices:

 

1) keep the airstrikes for semi-stationary enemies, rather than wasting them on maneuvering targets and risking not having them when they'd be most useful

 

2) against semi-stationary targets, like an island-hugging Jean Bart, set the boxes in a row, parallel to their bow-stern line; if you really want to use them against maneuvering ships, set a "barrage" with the boxes perpendicular to their motion, so that at least some bombs should fall on the target's trajectory

 

3) learn which deck platings the bombs can pen: sometimes superstructure hits and fires are nice enough, but you can get more bang for your buck on a Lion than on an Izumo, for instance

[Asatori]

In my opinion the T8/T9/T10 are strong ships, and unlike most tech trees I enjoyed all 3 of the high tier ones.

 

- The strong armor (well, it's a cruiser so it's relative) is very nice

- I like the guns on the T9 and T10, the AP is surprisingly effective (remember boys, stats shown in game only ever tell half the story because WG just lists some arbitrary stats in game and leaves other relevant stats out)

- The concealment is very good, ambushes with AP work really well 

- Don't fall into the trap that I see pretty much every player do in the T9/T10: Only camping behind an island and only ever really use the air strike... Airstrikes are situational and can be very strong, but it is not your primary weapon.  You need to roam around with these ships, you are not a squishy light cruiser that always needs to stay hidden or in cover, you can get away with a lot of crap because of the armor. 

-On moving targets you stagger the air strikes, make a BB commit to a turn or slow down with the first strike and then you hit him with the second strike, the first one might miss but the second one will hit. 

 

Based on opinions on the forums of keyboard warriors I was expecting this line to be very weak but I find it's actually quite strong and fun to play. 

On the T9 and T10 I went with range mod instead of reload, I think that adds some versatility to the ships in games where gettin in air strike range is difficult or a just a bad idea.

 

And kiting away with these ships makes the air strike more usefull, in the T10 you can basicly air strike targets that are pushing from 15 km away. 

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, Asatori said:

Based on opinions on the forums of keyboard warriors

[CV_SUB_Report_Blacklist]

i like gouden leeuw , it has good concealment 10 km and good guns , air strike works well on stationery guys and bbs ,,, cruisers are harder to hit , destroyers , forget it , its a luck :D ...

 

try to use air strike as secondary thing not a regular or a must be used ...

[SodaBubbles]

7 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

I only have three advices:

 

1) keep the airstrikes for semi-stationary enemies, rather than wasting them on maneuvering targets and risking not having them when they'd be most useful

 

2) against semi-stationary targets, like an island-hugging Jean Bart, set the boxes in a row, parallel to their bow-stern line; if you really want to use them against maneuvering ships, set a "barrage" with the boxes perpendicular to their motion, so that at least some bombs should fall on the target's trajectory

 

3) learn which deck platings the bombs can pen: sometimes superstructure hits and fires are nice enough, but you can get more bang for your buck on a Lion than on an Izumo, for instance

 

That's good advice, thanks.

 

[DDG_121]

On 3/23/2022 at 1:36 PM, Panocek said:

And yet, none of the Dockyard ships have returned

PR was available for fundraising / help causes and it was available in a special auction, on discord I think.

 

Sold for like 2K USD

[SodaBubbles]

It would be awesome if I could trade the nearly useless airstrike for better reload on the main guns. Would love the choice.

 

So far played it probably 10-12 games in Ranked, maybe 15K total damage with airstrike. I could have much greater impact with radar, better reload, higher fire chance, etc.

Airstrike is a bad idea. Simple as that.

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, SodaBubbles said:

It would be awesome if I could trade the nearly useless airstrike for better reload on the main guns. Would love the choice.

 

So far played it probably 10-12 games in Ranked, maybe 15K total damage with airstrike. I could have much greater impact with radar, better reload, higher fire chance, etc.

Airstrike is a bad idea. Simple as that.

Exactly, my previous point in a nutshell

[Onsterfelijke]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:50 AM, Johnny_Moneto said:

...which only happens in co-op if the bots get stuck at an island.

 

In other words: Dutch cruisers and current co-op meta (dare I use that word?) don't work well together.

As i have the Dutch line (and as Dutchmen) and played them a lot (lots) in PVE while aiming is hard the experience using them is something to buildup. The D7P with 3 airstrikes is great to get exp in those strikes. Also remember the drops are EGG forms the most bombs fall on the sides not in the middle. Us the AA skill to have very fast reload on airstrikes it really helps.

 

People think it's just a gimmick and used it accordly but you can use it in your advantage forcing bots to show you broadsides (in PVE) todo lots of damage with your guns. They are ships for persons with some skill in understanding difficult ships. I use it to look over the islands (as i don't know the secret combo todo it in normal games) or just to check if there is a ship hiding by randomly bombing spots where i think a ship is.

 

The only think changed i would the airstrike coming from the border very high like 8km+ high unshootable and diving when they are near the target < 8km so aa are be used and leaving the area same distance.

[Rockstone_III]

I had lots of fun in the tier-8 and up. Most important is to say moving and try to remain angled when detected. Use concealment and islands to turn (is generally a smart idea)... Never ever become stationary. 

Airdrops take a lot of practice and even then. Due to delay, a moving target can easily avoid them if its player pays any attention to an incomming airraid. 

Obviously target selection is important. Take a BB target (the extra km range of tier-10 really helps a lot) and learn which ones. An airdrop on a Kremlin is far less effective than on a Republique due to plating.

A heavy cruiser standing still is also a good target. A Des Moines, Moskva or Salem is just not fast enough to get out of range from standstill. 

 

Airdrops can however be great... When a DD is fireing from smoke, give it two drops. Sure, most bombs will not come close, but hitting it for half its health (and setting it on fire) is really satisfying... 

[SodaBubbles]

On 3/25/2022 at 11:42 AM, SodaBubbles said:

It would be awesome if I could trade the nearly useless airstrike for better reload on the main guns. Would love the choice.

 

So far played it probably 10-12 games in Ranked, maybe 15K total damage with airstrike. I could have much greater impact with radar, better reload, higher fire chance, etc.

Airstrike is a bad idea. Simple as that.

 

eh, @Seraphice. Can we get the choice of replacing airstrike with something useful? Reload booster? Radar? Better heal? Airstrike is largely useless.

[Seraphice]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:58 PM, SodaBubbles said:

 

eh, @Seraphice. Can we get the choice of replacing airstrike with something useful? Reload booster? Radar? Better heal? Airstrike is largely useless.

I don't think this is something we are planning to do anytime soon. Airstrike is kind of the flavour for the dutch cruisers, and when mastered and utilized well they can have a large impact.
When choosing the correct targets, you can start multiple fires, and deal good damage, usually up to 15k, depending on whether you are able to penetrate the armor of the target. Even so when used in combination and in succession, it can be well utilized to set permanent fires and rack up a lot of damage over the course of the game.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[SodaBubbles]

27 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

I don't think this is something we are planning to do anytime soon. Airstrike is kind of the flavour for the dutch cruisers, and when mastered and utilized well they can have a large impact.
When choosing the correct targets, you can start multiple fires, and deal good damage, usually up to 15k, depending on whether you are able to penetrate the armor of the target. Even so when used in combination and in succession, it can be well utilized to set permanent fires and rack up a lot of damage over the course of the game.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

Well, thanks. I never see fires or much damage from airstrikes, so I would prefer a more reliable mechanic that would really help my team, rather than trying to master a mechanic that has little or no effect on the game. At least pass the suggestion along, will ya?