Contrary to others I believe AP is too weak now.

[Zoddom]

Hello!

 

So, topic name says it all, so let me tell you something about myself:

 

I play Tier 7 and lower. Mostly Battleships and Cruisers. 95% of Cruiser shells fired by me are HE. 95% of Battleship shells fired by me are AP.I know armour is supposed to be working now.

 

But HELL, you want to tell me that 5 hits with 41cm guns cant do more than 1000 dmg to an enemy cruiser?! And most shells fired at other BB simply do NOTHING (0, ZERO dmg)?

 

And when it comes to cruisers (mostly play Cleveland), you wanna tell me that I cant even pen enemy Destroyers?! I dont really care for the cruiser ammunition, because of the high rate of fire HE proves to be very effective.

 

But seriously, in a Battleship with 30-40s reload time, the AP ammo does nothing? Are we now seriously supposed to fire HE with those as well? With a reload so long it enables otehrs to cooldown there dmg control ability between salvos?
 

Or is it just me and my feeling that AP is completely useless now? It just doesnt feel right.

 

 

[ironhammer500]

Hello!

 

So, topic name says it all, so let me tell you something about myself:

 

I play Tier 7 and lower. Mostly Battleships and Cruisers. 95% of Cruiser shells fired by me are HE. 95% of Battleship shells fired by me are AP.I know armour is supposed to be working now.

 

But HELL, you want to tell me that 5 hits with 41cm guns cant do more than 1000 dmg to an enemy cruiser?! And most shells fired at other BB simply do NOTHING (0, ZERO dmg)?

 

And when it comes to cruisers (mostly play Cleveland), you wanna tell me that I cant even pen enemy Destroyers?! I dont really care for the cruiser ammunition, because of the high rate of fire HE proves to be very effective.

 

But seriously, in a Battleship with 30-40s reload time, the AP ammo does nothing? Are we now seriously supposed to fire HE with those as well? With a reload so long it enables otehrs to cooldown there dmg control ability between salvos?

 

Or is it just me and my feeling that AP is completely useless now? It just doesnt feel right.

 

 

 

Been getting lots of that as well unless u hit crits you do no damage with AP now..

[Captain_Edwards]

I really do not like saying this but its a l2p issue. Good aiming is absolutely crucial with AP, you have to aim for citadel hits to make it count. Angling is also a huge factor. A ship that's angled can bounce ANY type of shell. I have had my Pensicola bounce Yamato shells, just because I was angled properly.

 

When you can hit a ship with multiple rounds and get at least one citadel penetration, you will see that AP is far superior in damage potential when used properly.

[ironhammer500]

I really do not like saying this but its a l2p issue. Good aiming is absolutely crucial with AP, you have to aim for citadel hits to make it count. Angling is also a huge factor. A ship that's angled can bounce ANY type of shell. I have had my Pensicola bounce Yamato shells, just because I was angled properly.

 

When you can hit a ship with multiple rounds and get at least one citadel penetration, you will see that AP is far superior in damage potential when used properly.

 

Its not just a L2p issue there are bugging damage models..Hmm been down this road before with tanks, but AP does sometimes hit pen but do no damage...hell i keep getting critical hits for 0 damage...hows does a crit deal no damage..

[Captain_Edwards]

 

Its not just a L2p issue there are bugging damage models..Hmm been down this road before with tanks, but AP does sometimes hit pen but do no damage...hell i keep getting critical hits for 0 damage...hows does a crit deal no damage..

 

Of course there are some bugs with certain ships. I believe Iowa has an issue where HE does little to no damage at all, regardless of calibre due to a bug with the armor iirc.

 

And a critical for no damage is a likely over-penetration. If your firing AP at DD or thin skinned CV/CA then its entirely possible for shots to clean through causing little, to no damage. The developers already explained that where the shot goes through is extremely important. You can fire a shell, have it arc and hit the deck, penetrate and have it come out the side of the ship doing almost no damage because it went through an empty space.

 

 

[Sharana]

 

Its not just a L2p issue there are bugging damage models..Hmm been down this road before with tanks, but AP does sometimes hit pen but do no damage...hell i keep getting critical hits for 0 damage...hows does a crit deal no damage..

 

Doesn't look buggy to me. There are just the rules about bounce and overpenetration. If you hit and penetrate it's pretty clear. 1x damage (max you see in the stats) for citadel hit, 0.33x for non citadel hit, 0.165x if that part of the ship was badly damaged already and 0.1x if it was overpenetration.

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

Of course there are some bugs with certain ships. I believe Iowa has an issue where HE does little to no damage at all, regardless of calibre due to a bug with the armor iirc.

 

 

There are a few ships like the Iowa. Not sure which, but the Montana and Amagi appear to have the same... special characteristic at times.

 

Also, I got surprised the other day in my Grem. Managed to get close to a Ryujo and was pumping AP into his hull. Got a few citadels and brought him to 500ish HP. By then I had moved around to the rear (raking position as it was called in the age of sail) and kept shooting, surprisingly he didn't die until I noticed that AP into the rear of the Ryujo didn't do any damage. At the time I didn't change shells as I knew his bombers were overhead and his secondaries were shooting (I myself had only 200 HP left). I sent at least 12 AP shots for 0 damage into his stern, no bounces. It was quite strange. I really should have changed to HE, not just to kill (as noted I was quite stressed at this point) but also to see if perhaps it too didn't do damage.

[SavageRat]

Well, in a match this afternoon I managed to take a full health New Orleans down to zero in one broadside using AP in my Iowa, same match 10 minutes later I took a full AP broadside from an Enemy North Carolina that popped round an Island, took 64000 odd damage and sunk me.

 

This morning I had a one on one with an Enemy Cleveland while sailing my own Cleveland, both started at almost full health, he was using exclusively HE while I switched over to AP after 1-2 salvoes, I managed to sink him before I got below 25% health, even though I was on fire for most of the engagement. My HE salvoes averaged 1000 damage, AP between 2-4000 damage per salvo.

 

So in my opinion at least, AP is now working pretty much as it should, it is just dependent on you to select the right shell for the occasion.

 

 

[Mangrey]

I had an one on one with a mogami in my Ibuki to day.. i shot with AP and he with HE i didnt get to 25% HP befor he sunk me ... i did keep my Angle (vs AP) so i was harder to hit and used his full broad side and even if i made 5 citadel hits he still managed to sink me....

 

I still think that HE is to power full I dont mind the flames and stuff blowing up but the HE is just random spamm with no aiming unlike the APs 

 

 

 

Mang

[Dbars_eu]

after getting terrible rng and little damage with shooting AP in battleships past 15km, I am thinking about starting to shoot HE at everything in a BB. well except when i know i will fighting close, within 10km...

[Aerroon]

I don't think AP is weak at all.

[conductiv]

I had an one on one with a mogami in my Ibuki to day.. i shot with AP and he with HE i didnt get to 25% HP befor he sunk me ... i did keep my Angle (vs AP) so i was harder to hit and used his full broad side and even if i made 5 citadel hits he still managed to sink me....

 

I still think that HE is to power full I dont mind the flames and stuff blowing up but the HE is just random spamm with no aiming unlike the APs 

 

 

 

Mang

 

okay so if I read this right.... you got 5 citadel hits on the mogami with the ibuki's 203mm AP ammo but failed to deal 25% of the mogami's HP in damage.

 

well you have to be confusing some tags then, because the mogami has less then 40K HP and every single 203mm AP citadel hit deals 5K damage...so 5 of them is 25K damage...thats over 60% of the ships HP.

 

AP has a easier time scoring citadel hits and when you get such a hit you will see the opponents health drop like crazy...2-3 combined and you generally see the targets health drop below half deu to the combined citadel+normal hit damage, players that know how where to shoot the AP can remove most ships in a few salvos. significantly faster then one can kill them using HE+fire damage. even if the enemy doesn't have its repair crew up.

 

I don't think AP is weak at all.

 

hence I agree with this statement, at least with regard to battleship and heavy cruiser AP when used against cruisers. the only real thing I'm somewhat iffy about is the 127-155mm AP ammo's effectiveness vs destroyers. these "small caliber shells", should in my eyes be the CA's DPM option against mid and low tier destroyers, while the 203mm would overpen all DDs but the top tier and well armored destroyers and destroyer/cruiser hybrids. giving cruiser AP a slightly larger window of preference.

 

however, I havn't properly tried these guns out post patch..so I might have to chance my current assumption that they overpen all DD's like they seemed to do before the last patch.

[Elgerino]

If you don't hit an important part of the target with AP you're going to do little damage. That's the gamble. It is certainly an L2P issue.

[Battledragon]

I think AP would be fine atm if they'd just fix the awful fire issues from HE.  They need to either 1)nerf the fire chance, 2) nerf the fire duration, or 3) nerf the damage caused from being on fire.  Because at the moment a small cruiser rapid firing HE from its max range is all but invincible from a single battleship.  You can't catch it, and as long as he stays at long range he can dodge your fire (if not entirely, well enough to make a citadel hit essentially impossible unless by pure accident).  Since the battleship is meant to be the counter to cruisers in this game, the fact that 1 on 1 a cruiser firing HE will almost always win unless it chooses to get too close is kind of broken imo.

[Avallarion]

If you don't hit an important part of the target with AP you're going to do little damage. That's the gamble. It is certainly an L2P issue.

 

Is it a gamble or is it L2P?

Because really you can't do much if RNGesus hates you. But then OTOH there are the times where you fire a single turret at a cruiser without expecting much and he just blows up.

Esp. at long ranges you need a good deal of luck with AP. It may be a bit much but until you get close it's certainly not only L2P. When you are in brawling range it's true though. A lot is decided by know when and where to shoot.

[Ectar_]

But seriously, in a Battleship with 30-40s reload time, the AP ammo does nothing? Are we now seriously supposed to fire HE with those as well? With a reload so long it enables otehrs to cooldown there dmg control ability between salvos?

Or is it just me and my feeling that AP is completely useless now? It just doesnt feel right.

 

AP's in Battleships shreds cruisers now. Which ships specifically are you playing, what are you shooting at, and is the ship fully upgraded?

[CandyVanMan]

Only ammo problem, are those damned fires from HE, they are waaaaaay too common.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

Ap is fine , just played with fuso and Yamato , was ok , just diff places you hit , and vs who u play, vs CA ofc AP not always do high dmg , HE yes it works vs CA but not that high dg , and also HE fire rate still high , buch of pyro effect

[Keulz]

 

Doesn't look buggy to me. There are just the rules about bounce and overpenetration. If you hit and penetrate it's pretty clear. 1x damage (max you see in the stats) for citadel hit, 0.33x for non citadel hit, 0.165x if that part of the ship was badly damaged already and 0.1x if it was overpenetration.

 

Sure about the 10% being overpen ?

I'd love to have some official/dev sources about that.

[_DeathWing_]

Lol, AP weak. I have one shot cruisers more than ever before...

[NatteFrost]

I really do not like saying this but its a l2p issue. Good aiming is absolutely crucial with AP, you have to aim for citadel hits to make it count. Angling is also a huge factor. A ship that's angled can bounce ANY type of shell. I have had my Pensicola bounce Yamato shells, just because I was angled properly.

 

When you can hit a ship with multiple rounds and get at least one citadel penetration, you will see that AP is far superior in damage potential when used properly.

 

 

most of the times you wont hit cits, and to see your ap does less dmg then a he shell removes all reasons to use ap.

remove the armor buff we got a while back and ap will have its use again.

 

 

 

 

[NGC227]

Well, in a match this afternoon I managed to take a full health New Orleans down to zero in one broadside using AP in my Iowa, same match 10 minutes later I took a full AP broadside from an Enemy North Carolina that popped round an Island, took 64000 odd damage and sunk me.

 

 

This morning I had a one on one with an Enemy Cleveland while sailing my own Cleveland, both started at almost full health, he was using exclusively HE while I switched over to AP after 1-2 salvoes, I managed to sink him before I got below 25% health, even though I was on fire for most of the engagement. My HE salvoes averaged 1000 damage, AP between 2-4000 damage per salvo.

 

 

So in my opinion at least, AP is now working pretty much as it should, it is just dependent on you to select the right shell for the occasion.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, AP is not working very well and HE are op, they need to balance that

[DtXpwnz]

 

Doesn't look buggy to me. There are just the rules about bounce and overpenetration. If you hit and penetrate it's pretty clear. 1x damage (max you see in the stats) for citadel hit, 0.33x for non citadel hit, 0.165x if that part of the ship was badly damaged already and 0.1x if it was overpenetration.

 

And what about ammorack hits? Is there also any multiplier for these?

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

 

I agree, AP is not working very well and HE are op, they need to balance that

 

Yes HE (pyro effect ) get fixed for sure

[Keulz]

 

And what about ammorack hits? Is there also any multiplier for these?

 

?

What ?

When you get ammo racked, your ship explodes. Doesn't need any multiplier to just say that you're dead, no matter what.