Thunderer and Conqueror always in the back.

[Corpsetaker]

Hello,

 

Can anyone explain to me why these two ships are at the back of the map more than others? 

 

When I think about it every game I have ever played with these two ships they are "always" at the back of the map. 

[lovelacebeer]

Well for the Conqueror ever since it’s release there are a lot of people who like to play her as a long range HE spammer, they may not win battles like that but they do rack up impressive damage scores. 
 

Sadly those ships being back of the map will probably always be an issue, almost as common as seeing Kurfürst commanders staying well back playing max range. 

[Yedwy]

Thin plate, low HP, usually spam HE and farm fire damage so getting close is not needed 

[doerhoff_damian]

they are squishy (low Number of Hitpoints and a large Citadell)

But they have amazing British He (high Damage and high Fire Chance)

So a lot of People stay as far back as they can so the enemy strugles in doing any meaningfull damage to them.

While they farm Fires on any Ship that pushed in.

These Ships punish any BB that tried to support his team

These Ships and the Slawa are the best Ships in a Camping Meta

[bushwacker001]

17 minutes ago, Corpsetaker said:

Hello,

 

Can anyone explain to me why these two ships are at the back of the map more than others? 

 

When I think about it every game I have ever played with these two ships they are "always" at the back of the map. 

So what ships have you played to be in the same battle as them?  You are only up to T7. 

[Ruthus]

1. They rarely have the range to be right at the back.
2. It's what they are best at given the design of the game

What is more annoying is that they don't realise they can be even more effective if they learn you/when to push up finish enemy teams off. You often see games that could be won fading to losses as people still try to back off and fire HE as the enemy closes in.

 

[Nibenay78]

54 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Thin plate, low HP, usually spam HE and farm fire damage so getting close is not needed 

Low concealment and surprise AP salvos makes it more fun (and influential) at 13km...

[Yedwy]

11 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Low concealment and surprise AP salvos makes it more fun (and influential) at 13km...

Perhaps but the fact its not needed to come close to farm damage in massive amounts and that WG mostly rewards damage makes it - not needed 

[Nibenay78]

Just now, Yedwy said:

Perhaps but the fact its not needed to come close to farm damage in massive amounts and that WG mostly rewards damage makes it - not needed 

I read this as: We all know WG does not reward fun and engaging gameplay 

[Yedwy]

20 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

I read this as: We all know WG does not reward fun and engaging gameplay 

Pretty much, WG does everything they can to make win/lose a matter of coin toss and to placate the people not liking that notion with few crumbs by promoting importance of credits, xp and other trinkets as well as PR and other "speshul metrics"

[Karasu_Browarszky]

It's what is called a 'measured approach'.

[mdjmcnally]

As a person that starts his day off with conqueror and thunderer then generally tend to be towards the rear, maybe 3-4km behind the Cruisers.   Cerainly not on the A/B line.

paying attention to mini map, before overcommit.

 

if get closer then find the cruisers and DD get this belief that they suddenly invulnerable and find on own on side of the map spending the rest of the game kiting away and simply delaying.

 

I will start off with HE and look for the red DD providing spotted otherwise will fire at what can spot.   If someone broadsiding will switch to AP, but HE more effective on DD’s is what find.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 minutes ago, mdjmcnally said:

As a person that starts his day off with conqueror and thunderer then generally tend to be towards the rear, maybe 3-4km behind the Cruisers.   Cerainly not on the A/B line.

paying attention to mini map, before overcommit.

 

if get closer then find the cruisers and DD get this belief that they suddenly invulnerable and find on own on side of the map spending the rest of the game kiting away and simply delaying.

 

I will start off with HE and look for the red DD providing spotted otherwise will fire at what can spot.   If someone broadsiding will switch to AP, but HE more effective on DD’s is what find.

 

Cruisers suffer tremendously from the dodgy spotting mechanics. If we think of them as something that will deter the enemy DD's from approaching the BB's, this ain't ever gonna work if the DD's outspot the hunters.

[Nibenay78]

29 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Pretty much, WG does everything they can to make win/lose a matter of coin toss and to placate the people not liking that notion with few crumbs by promoting importance of credits, xp and other trinkets as well as PR and other "speshul metrics"

I'd be fine with a massive reduction of their HE shells. In return I can have 1km better concealment on thunderer...

[Yedwy]

39 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

I'd be fine with a massive reduction of their HE shells. In return I can have 1km better concealment on thunderer...

TBH I d go with removing all HE from all BBs and giving them only short fuse AP with improved angles and a bit reduced damage but no capping against anything and normal AP for that ships guns “historically” and some BBs can get a consumable for gimmicks if needbe like “extra long range salvo” or “supercharged shells” (in addition to mbrb and engine boist we already have in game) to make them more varied among nations…

[Ronchabale]

2 hours ago, Corpsetaker said:

Hello,

 

Can anyone explain to me why these two ships are at the back of the map more than others? 

 

When I think about it every game I have ever played with these two ships they are "always" at the back of the map. 

Low HP , 32mm everywhere, they are long range spammers

Try pushing in with one and see what happwns

[Nibenay78]

7 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Low HP , 32mm everywhere, they are long range spammers

Try pushing in with one and see what happwns

Works fine, when you chose your moment. They are clearly not meant to take all the crap in the game, but that doesn't mean they have to be played at max range.

Like all ships really..

[Corpsetaker]

13 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

 

Try pushing in with one and see what happwns

Hello,

 

Who said you had to push? Is there no area between back of the map and in the face of the enemy?

[Ronchabale]

10 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Works fine, when you chose your moment. They are clearly not meant to take all the crap in the game, but that doesn't mean they have to be played at max range.

Like all ships really..

Yeah there is the "right moment"

Usually a thin skinned BB cant much "Push" from the start, everyone has seen the GK:s that certainly aint thin skinned pushing and sinking in the first 5 mins

 

(of course everyone knows that German battleships always had piles of oil soaked rags and dry wood all over the ship)

[Ronchabale]

8 minutes ago, Corpsetaker said:

Hello,

 

Who said you had to push? Is there no area between back of the map and in the face of the enemy?

Just play them and see how they work instead

[Nibenay78]

3 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Yeah there is the "right moment"

Usually a thin skinned BB cant much "Push" from the start, everyone has seen the GK:s that certainly aint thin skinned pushing and sinking in the first 5 mins

 

(of course everyone knows that German battleships always had piles of oil soaked rags and dry wood all over the ship)

Clearly at the start pretty much no ship can brute force it's way to the front without being focused the crap out of.

Clearly some ships are more resillient than others.

Neither means a less resilient ship can't chose their fights and MUST hang back at 20km at every moment in the game.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Just play them and see how they work instead

I think I did, and like with all BBs there are moments to be closer and moments to be further away.

[Ronchabale]

 

8 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Clearly at the start pretty much no ship can brute force it's way to the front without being focused the crap out of.

Clearly some ships are more resillient than others.

Neither means a less resilient ship can't chose their fights and MUST hang back at 20km at every moment in the game.

Hmm..

8 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

 

 

I think I did, and like with all BBs there are moments to be closer and moments to be further away.

Yeah..

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Think of the BB's much like the knights of medieval times. So hugely expensive that you didn't really feel like wanting to commit them to battle.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

4 hours ago, Corpsetaker said:

Hello,

 

Can anyone explain to me why these two ships are at the back of the map more than others? 

 

When I think about it every game I have ever played with these two ships they are "always" at the back of the map. 

Don't think this is only these 2, most of BBs at T10 except new German Battlecruisers usually sit on 10 line. I think these 2 are usually not as tanky as some of the other T10 BBs. Know Thunderer can go down quite fast when focused and even Conq with its zombie heal can do as well.

 

But this is pretty much the name of the game these days, and it will only get worse.

[FatherTorque]

It's all about keeping your distance to opponent BBs which means you have more time to dodge their incoming shells. Thunderer has such a high maneuvrability that she surpasses many high level cruisers in this regard. Many times i managed to dodge complete salvos just by steering hard but only if those shells come from a long range.