Re-grinding the original German DD-line

[Sub_Human]

Hi guys! I recently had the "great" idea of resetting the old german DD-line. It was the first ever line I grinded so it has sentimental value, also it got buffed with 1/4 pen since then. I meen how bad can it be . Also I forgot that I have no captains for them...

 

It has been a pretty rough journey so far. My stats cry tears of shame (I have hidden them ).

 

The V25 is great and fun, but t2 is unplayable as people basicly just yolo from start and you are lucky if the game lasts 5 minutes.

 

The t3, whatever its called, is garbage, it gets 4 guns worse reload and is huge in comparison to the t2, the consealment is also crap and its slow as a snail.

 

The t4 V170 was a hoot, its just as good as the t2.

 

The t5 T22 is not very good, but good enough. It has 5.7 detection and hydro. I was a bit unlucky with the MM (facing some tryhards in triple divs) but had a great time playing ring around the rosie a lot and torping the crap out of everything. Constant CVs made it a bit less effective but atleast I had fun.

 

The t6 Gaede I was looking forward to. But I just cant make it work. 150mm guns so you can citadell cruisers and 38mm pen for HE on BBS. You do however have to be inside of 5km to have pen enough to citadell anything. Its big and clumpsy, has a 6.8km detection and crap dispertion. I dont know what role to play. On the plus side, hydro, great torps and lots of HP. Still hated every game.

 

Went on to the Maas on t7, tried 2 games in random and 5 in ranked. 6.8km detection again so you get outspotted by everything. Great torps, lots of HP, 5 guns, 3 of whish have decent forward fireing and Hydro. I gunned down DDs but If they have half a brain they seek support and then you struggle with the crap consealment. I would have tried a gunbuild but 10p commander put a stop to that... FXP to t8.

 

Just got the t8, z23. Something I looked forward to. Here I have a 17p commander . Was planing on going with AFT and a gunbuild, z 35 with worse reload but 9.5km torps. Farming everything with 32mm pen. But since the new german DDs came out the z23 only has 128mm guns to choose from. Fine I thought as they pen 32mm. But you can no longer get the double turret in the front, so you are stuck with 4 barrels... Maas has 5 . I will probably not go the gunbuild route. Again Im not sure what the ship is supposed to do. It has HP and Hydro. It had pretty good torps and 32mm pen. But its big, slow and clumpsy with 6.2km detection. FFS wargaming give me 5 guns and let me farm damage atleast .

 

Rant over... looking forward to z46 and I will be sad if it sucks 

[Fatal_Ramses]

36 minutes ago, Systergummi said:

But you can no longer get the double turret in the front, so you are stuck with 4 barrels... Maas has 5 .

Are you sure? I remember it having that same weird dual gun turret the z46 and z52 have?

 

*edit

But, yes. I miss the 150mm guns she should have.

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

1 minute ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Are you sure? I remember it having that same weird dual gun turret the z46 and z52 have?

It does have the dual gun turret. So five guns in total but four turrets.

I actually love the German DDs. Great AP (most DDs go broadside to me anyway because ''muh DPM''), hydro and reliable torpedoes. Overall a great package. The key is to play like you are always outgunned and then be pleasantly surprised that you can tear up some of the popular DD picks because they underestimate you.

[Sub_Human]

2 minutes ago, RuruushuVuiBuritania said:

It does have the dual gun turret. So five guns in total but four turrets.

I actually love the German DDs. Great AP (most DDs go broadside to me anyway because ''muh DPM''), hydro and reliable torpedoes. Overall a great package. The key is to play like you are always outgunned and then be pleasantly surprised that you can tear up some of the popular DD picks because they underestimate you.

Are you sure you get 5 guns in 4 turrets. It used to be that you got the front double when you upgraded to the 150s. I think I even looked at the model before "venting".

[fumtu]

40 minutes ago, Systergummi said:

But you can no longer get the double turret in the front, so you are stuck with 4 barrels... Maas has 5

 

1 minute ago, RuruushuVuiBuritania said:

It does have the dual gun turret. So five guns in total but four turrets.

 

Stock Z-23 only has four guns. Once you research B hull, it gets it fifth gun by front mount becoming twin.

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

Just now, fumtu said:

 

 

Stock Z-23 only has four guns. Once you research B hull, it gets it fifth gun by front mount becoming twin.

That is true. My mistake is in not playing stock Z-23 (I always FXP all the modules). So it is correct to say 4 guns/4 turrets for A hull and 5 guns/4 turrets for B hull?

[Itwastuesday]

I quite liked german DD up until the TX ship, perhaps the T9 was my favourite. But TX DD meta is just either brutal (Smålål Marceau etc) or brutally boring (hallal shima). If anybody has an idea how to beat those with Z52, I'm all ears.

[Aragathor]

Well, the whole line was never the best and then it got power creeped.

Right now the Z-52 has the worst damage and least kills at T10, plus it's K/D is in the dumpster.

WG says that's fine.

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

4 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Well, the whole line was never the best and then it got power creeped.

Right now the Z-52 has the worst damage and least kills at T10, plus it's K/D is in the dumpster.

WG says that's fine.

Z-52 recently got a buff 

There is a difference between objectively being bad and not getting along with the playstyle as well.

[Sub_Human]

2 hours ago, fumtu said:

 

 

Stock Z-23 only has four guns. Once you research B hull, it gets it fifth gun by front mount becoming twin.

Thank you for clearing that up. I now have hope 

[Sub_Human]

2 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

I quite liked german DD up until the TX ship, perhaps the T9 was my favourite. But TX DD meta is just either brutal (Smålål Marceau etc) or brutally boring (hallal shima). If anybody has an idea how to beat those with Z52, I'm all ears.

Not that I have tried it in a long time, but I think the way to play Z52 today is like a mini DM. Go range and gunbuild. AFT and reload module. Longer range then 14.5 (might be 14.8)? Is to much with those floaty shells.

 

I tried it a long time ago, even made a thread about it. Most people thought I was wrong. I also made a thread later about buffing the pen to 1/4 like german secondarys and cruiser guns. Now that is a reality.

 

If you look at the top z52 players in NA (o7) they go full guns and just farm damage. Potato quality made a vid with one of his clan mates (BFK) instructing him. 

 

[tocqueville8]

4 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

But TX DD meta is just either brutal (Smålål Marceau etc) or brutally boring (hallal shima). If anybody has an idea how to beat those with Z52, I'm all ears.

 

Either you go gunbuild and hope to bypass them, or you need smoke and spotting to deal with a Smaland.

Try to bait his radar, show a small profile, wait it out, then smoke up and damage him as someone else is spotting him for you. It's not great, but maybe you can trade decently.

[Hirohito]

4 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

I quite liked german DD up until the TX ship, perhaps the T9 was my favourite. But TX DD meta is just either brutal (Smålål Marceau etc) or brutally boring (hallal shima). If anybody has an idea how to beat those with Z52, I'm all ears.

Dont have Z52, but I would handle it the way I do with other DDs.
If he's the 6,2km conceal build and hardspots you, you're in trouble, but it helps if you have torps ready.
A good småland wont charge you head on because of any support you usually have, but instead try to duke it out while kiting slightly away.
If you can drop a wide set of torps you can force him to either go straight at you, in which case you kite away while using guns, back to safety.
If he disengages to kite away, hold fire and get out of radar range to go dark asap.
If the småland burns his radar because you stay dark, that's the best case scenario right there.
Gives you a strong 2 minute window to reengage the area if you didnt take too much damage during the ordeal.

Either way, make sure you have support, dont pick that fight on your own as you will lose a 1v1 outside of lucky torp hits.
Hold your fire if he hardspots you, that can force a radar.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 4 Stunden, Systergummi sagte:

Thank you for clearing that up. I now have hope 

Back when she had 150's it confused me. I had almost finished Maass and looked at Z-23 disappointed: only 4 barrels. Then I  saw on a video somebody playing her having 5 barrels. So I looked at her with B hull - only 4 barrels. I looked at her with 150 upgrade - only 4 barrels. WTF?

The solution was you needed both upgrades to get the twin mount forward. A configuration that couldn't be previewed in the tech tree.

This stuff stopped me playing this line for a few weeks as Z-23 looked like a gun downgrade compared to Maass.

[lafeel]

29 minutes ago, Johnny_Moneto said:

Back when she had 150's it confused me. I had almost finished Maass and looked at Z-23 disappointed: only 4 barrels. Then I  saw on a video somebody playing her having 5 barrels. So I looked at her with B hull - only 4 barrels. I looked at her with 150 upgrade - only 4 barrels. WTF?

The solution was you needed both upgrades to get the twin mount forward. A configuration that couldn't be previewed in the tech tree.

This stuff stopped me playing this line for a few weeks as Z-23 looked like a gun downgrade compared to Maass.

The stock Z-23 back then, and still is today, very much a gun downgrade from the Maas.

 

With the B-hull now she's actually become a pretty  competent tier 8 dd. (side note never played her with the 15cm guns)

[Ocsimano18]

7 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Well, the whole line was never the best and then it got power creeped.

Right now the Z-52 has the worst damage and least kills at T10, plus it's K/D is in the dumpster.

WG says that's fine.

Filtering for pro-players, the Z52 comes down as the strongest tech tree DD:

 

[Hirohito]

40 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

Filtering for pro-players, the Z52 comes down as the strongest tech tree DD:

 

What are the parameters of that query?
Which percentile of players are we looking at, and which timeframe?

[Ocsimano18]

8 hours ago, Hirohito said:

What are the parameters of that query?
Which percentile of players are we looking at, and which timeframe?

1900+, 28 days.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

20 hours ago, Systergummi said:

Hi guys! I recently had the "great" idea of resetting the old german DD-line. It was the first ever line I grinded so it has sentimental value, also it got buffed with 1/4 pen since then. I meen how bad can it be . Also I forgot that I have no captains for them...

 

It has been a pretty rough journey so far. My stats cry tears of shame (I have hidden them ).

 

The V25 is great and fun, but t2 is unplayable as people basicly just yolo from start and you are lucky if the game lasts 5 minutes.

 

The t3, whatever its called, is garbage, it gets 4 guns worse reload and is huge in comparison to the t2, the consealment is also crap and its slow as a snail.

 

The t4 V170 was a hoot, its just as good as the t2.

 

The t5 T22 is not very good, but good enough. It has 5.7 detection and hydro. I was a bit unlucky with the MM (facing some tryhards in triple divs) but had a great time playing ring around the rosie a lot and torping the crap out of everything. Constant CVs made it a bit less effective but atleast I had fun.

 

The t6 Gaede I was looking forward to. But I just cant make it work. 150mm guns so you can citadell cruisers and 38mm pen for HE on BBS. You do however have to be inside of 5km to have pen enough to citadell anything. Its big and clumpsy, has a 6.8km detection and crap dispertion. I dont know what role to play. On the plus side, hydro, great torps and lots of HP. Still hated every game.

 

Went on to the Maas on t7, tried 2 games in random and 5 in ranked. 6.8km detection again so you get outspotted by everything. Great torps, lots of HP, 5 guns, 3 of whish have decent forward fireing and Hydro. I gunned down DDs but If they have half a brain they seek support and then you struggle with the crap consealment. I would have tried a gunbuild but 10p commander put a stop to that... FXP to t8.

 

Just got the t8, z23. Something I looked forward to. Here I have a 17p commander . Was planing on going with AFT and a gunbuild, z 35 with worse reload but 9.5km torps. Farming everything with 32mm pen. But since the new german DDs came out the z23 only has 128mm guns to choose from. Fine I thought as they pen 32mm. But you can no longer get the double turret in the front, so you are stuck with 4 barrels... Maas has 5 . I will probably not go the gunbuild route. Again Im not sure what the ship is supposed to do. It has HP and Hydro. It had pretty good torps and 32mm pen. But its big, slow and clumpsy with 6.2km detection. FFS wargaming give me 5 guns and let me farm damage atleast .

 

Rant over... looking forward to z46 and I will be sad if it sucks 

 

My only "Research Bureau" re-grinds (several of them - I go for x4 multiplier once a year) were original German DD line - I love it!

 

I did it again few days ago (for x4 multiplier) and I already did the line up to Tier VIII (Tier VI and VII were done in new ranked - very quickly).

 

IMHO that line is very fun and enjoying to to!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Yedwy]

I am at the same job right now and I like the OG KM DDs quite a lot.... Ok I am at a bit of a break to fast-regrind the Dutch CAs for double bonus which should be over today and then I am going back to Z-46 

[Sub_Human]

6 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

My only "Research Bureau" re-grinds (several of them - I go for x4 multiplier once a year) were original German DD line - I love it!

 

I did it again few days ago (for x4 multiplier) and I already did the line up to Tier VIII (Tier VI and VII were done in new ranked - very quickly).

 

IMHO that line is very fun and enjoying to to!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

But how do you play them? I think that I could play them like the russian DDs with great success. The problem is that I dont have the captains for it, and I find them lacking (Gaede,Maas) as normal DDs due to the consealment.

 

By the way, how do you x4 a line?

 

[Yedwy]

5 minutes ago, Systergummi said:

But how do you play them? I think that I could play them like the russian DDs with great success. The problem is that I dont have the captains for it, and I find them lacking (Gaede,Maas) as normal DDs due to the consealment.

 

By the way, how do you x4 a line?

 

IDK about in general but I use the Z-46 as a torp boat, whatever you do you will never match true gunboats in DPM so no point

 

You use the double bonus freeXP-it then when the new douvle bonus arrivey sou reset it again

[Sub_Human]

2 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

IDK about in general but I use the Z-46 as a torp boat, whatever you do you will never match true gunboats in DPM so no point

 

You use the double bonus freeXP-it then when the new douvle bonus arrivey sou reset it again

Thank you, and by the way... Have a look at this ;)

 

 

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

2 hours ago, Systergummi said:

But how do you play them? I think that I could play them like the russian DDs with great success. The problem is that I dont have the captains for it, and I find them lacking (Gaede,Maas) as normal DDs due to the consealment.

 

By the way, how do you x4 a line?

 

 

I play ALL my German 1st line DDs as Torpedo boats - but I use guns whenever I can - coupled with hydro this is very potent combination!

 

The x4 modifier is achieved by FreeXP-ing the line after first x2 reset (in case of my German line that a mounts to about 700K FreeXP) and the resetting the line again and only then actual play...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Sub_Human]

3 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

I play ALL my German 1st line DDs as Torpedo boats - but I use guns whenever I can - coupled with hydro this is very potent combination!

 

The x4 modifier is achieved by FreeXP-ing the line after first x2 reset (in case of my German line that a mounts to about 700K FreeXP) and the resetting the line again and only then actual play...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Thank you for the explanation. I'll give the x4 a try next time.

 

I just tried a gunbuild on z23. I have to get used to the gun archs at range, but it works quite well coupled with the torps. Only 2 games so far but I already had a 2100xp one. 80k damage in the first and 96k in the second. Would have had well over 100k if I had the range upgrade on the torps in the second. Had some torps landing short. The great thing about playing like a russian gunboat is that I feel like Im not risking my ship in the early game.