Omg HOW bad poor Zao is....

[Andrewbassg]

 Well.....now that I played some  dirigue derby's..... hooly crap. WHAT are those torp angles?? What TF is that reload on them?? And Wedgie was reluctant to buff em a little.....

[Chaoskraehe]

I wish WG would overhaul the IJN cruisers from T8 to T10. 

 

 

[SodaBubbles]

I think Ibuki is even worse, and Mogami is basically food unless the player is really really good. Zao used to be good enough.... but power creeped by the supercruisers and by the 17" gun BBs.

I played it in Dirigible Derby and felt successful just doing 60K damage and a couple of kills, and surviving to the end.

[ColonelPete]

12 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

I played it in Dirigible Derby and felt successful just doing 60K damage and a couple of kills, and surviving to the end.

A couple of kills is more of what one does on average with any other cruiser...

[Andrewbassg]

45 minutes ago, Chaoskraehe said:

I wish WG would overhaul the IJN cruisers from T8 to T10. 

 

31 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

I think Ibuki is even worse, and Mogami is basically food unless the player is really really good. Zao used to be good enough.... but power creeped by the supercruisers and by the 17" gun BBs.

 Hmm... to be honest.... I quite like the Ibuki. And Mogami with 155 mm was very nice in convoy. Zao on the other hand..... horrible traverse, abysmal torp angles... compared to Ibuki... ouch.

31 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

I played it in Dirigible Derby and felt successful just doing 60K damage and a couple of kills, and surviving to the end.

Yeah, I know it can do stuff ( max was around 95k). Its just downright a horrible experience.

[SV_Kompresor]

48 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

Mogami is basically food

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that imo, mogami is by far the strongest tier 8 tech tree cruiser.

[ColonelPete]

Does not look too bad.

Spoiler

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-h/><i class=

 

[Andrewbassg]

28 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Does not look too bad.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-h/><i class=

 

 Well... if that table is not time limited (meaning without time based filters)..... 

 

Otherwise...

 

 

........like I said it can do stuff, but..... basically you have to "spread your legs" to launch torps...... 

 

 

 

 

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

 Well... if that table is not time limited (meaning without time based filters).....

The table shows the performance of the last 28 days, as depicted...

[Andrewbassg]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

The table shows the performance of the last 28 days, as depicted...

Ah yes, you are correct. I missed the colored stuff.

[ThePolishDJ]

36 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Does not look too bad.

  Hide contents

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-h/><i class=

 

I thought it might be worse but looks like a lot of people still play it.

[Sub_Human]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

Does not look too bad.

  Hide contents

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-h/><i class=

 

Jinan looks very bad, low sample size though.

[Yedwy]

3 hours ago, Chaoskraehe said:

I wish WG would overhaul the IJN cruisers from T8 to T10. 

No T5+ ones, by adding heal for starters and deck and sides that dont get spat overmatched all the way...

[Vbeest]

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Does not look too bad.

  Hide contents

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-h/><i class=

 

 

Could be that the recent spike in BB numbers, especially close-combat oriented BBs (Ge BC line and people grinding Kurfurst before the switch) helped Zao.

 

It has however inherently low skill ceiling. It simply lacks a single strong point (and please, just don't mention concealment... or torpedoes - these things are meaningless in the current meta), and also the 'character'. It has too low effective DPM to be really a glass cannon (in fact, it has longer reload than most T10 cruisers, even Petro sorry; actually not, was considering the 'Top Grade Gunner' active for Petro, which is often the case given its usual positioning). So there's no 'cannon' but there is 'glass' for sure in Zao...

 

Unique upgrade helps here, you can see increase in direct damage done, albeit at the dangerous price of range (but it gives it that tiny bit of 'character', which is necessary to make a ship interesting for me). To become good, however, Zao would need a bit better reload.

[tocqueville8]

5 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

I think Ibuki is even worse, and Mogami is basically food unless the player is really really good.

 

I don't really like Mogami for some reason, but the Ibuki is perfect imho: good firepower, range (spotter) and the heal make her much more comfortable.

 

Imho there's simply a limit to how strong kiting cruisers can be: unless the IJN line receives a massive buff, like German HE penetration, giving them an extra heal or whatever isn't going to affect their WR much.

[Vbeest]

1 minute ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

I don't really like Mogami for some reason, but the Ibuki is perfect imho: good firepower, range (spotter) and the heal make her much more comfortable.

 

Mogami much benefited from cruiser armor rework. Before that, oh boy, it was probably the most vulnerable ship (tier-wise) in the entire game... It has the firepower though with 155 mm.

[Sprockett]

24 minutes ago, Vbeest said:

 

Could be that the recent spike in BB numbers, especially close-combat oriented BBs (Ge BC line and people grinding Kurfurst before the switch) helped Zao.

 

It has however inherently low skill ceiling. It simply lacks a single strong point (and please, just don't mention concealment... or torpedoes - these things are meaningless in the current meta), and also the 'character'. It has too low effective DPM to be really a glass cannon (in fact, it has longer reload than most T10 cruisers, even Petro sorry; actually not, was considering the 'Top Grade Gunner' active for Petro, which is often the case given its usual positioning). So there's no 'cannon' but there is 'glass' for sure in Zao...

 

Unique upgrade helps here, you can see increase in direct damage done, albeit at the dangerous price of range (but it gives it that tiny bit of 'character', which is necessary to make a ship interesting for me). To become good, however, Zao would need a bit better reload.

really you do not know how to play the Zao if you think that the Detection is not part of how that ship plays. Her great concealment means that you can choose your engagement with the enemy which inherently gives you the advantage.  Most bad Zao players get them selves far too forward early game and then try and turn away offering up that delicate broadside. See it  happen often. Zao is an ambush ship for dictating your choice and time to engage. 

All these super Calibre guns are generally bad for the whole game, especially for cruisers and all cruisers are overmatched by these large calibre guns. 

[Vbeest]

1 minute ago, Sprockett said:

really you do not know how to play the Zao if you think that the Detection is not part of how that ship plays. Her great concealment means that you can choose your engagement with the enemy which inherently gives you the advantage.  Most bad Zao players get them selves far too forward early game and then try and turn away offering up that delicate broadside. See it  happen often. Zao is an ambush ship for dictating your choice and time to engage. 

All these super Calibre guns are generally bad for the whole game, especially for cruisers and all cruisers are overmatched by these large calibre guns. 

 

What can be done with 10 km concealment (Zao best value) that cannot be done with e.g. 11 or 11.5 km concealment (typical value for cruisers that don't have *OUTSTANDING* concealment)?

[Sprockett]

Just now, Vbeest said:

 

What can be done with 10 km concealment (Zao best value) that cannot be done with e.g. 11 or 11.5 km concealment?

dictating the engagement. When too fire when to stop firing. It allows you in a Zao to constantly be a threat to the enemy flank and rear. If you are not a constantly firing your guns and giving your position away then you can be very dangerous for any enemy push.  If you are inside radar range - then you are not playing the Zao correctly. ZAO is a great ship but takes skill and patience to play well...

[Vbeest]

2 minutes ago, Sprockett said:

dictating the engagement. When too fire when to stop firing. It allows you in a Zao to constantly be a threat to the enemy flank and rear. If you are not a constantly firing your guns and giving your position away then you can be very dangerous for any enemy push.  If you are inside radar range - then you are not playing the Zao correctly. ZAO is a great ship but takes skill and patience to play well...

 

Sorry, but truly I can not agree. Maybe in some games this is *STILL* the case, but in general Zao lacks the arguments to 'dictate the engagement'. It is a pure ship of opportunity, and it lacks the tools to claim any sort of initiative in battle. The times when Zao could be consistently played as you describe are long gone.

[Sprockett]

as you hide your stats I can not tell how good you are in any ship let alone a tough one like Zao. Personally I think she is a great cruiser and has an interesting skill level. You obviously get deleted often in the Zao and call it weak because of it. 

 

this is my personal stats for Zao

14

Zaō

10

Japan

196

51.53%

1 561

80 574

1.02

2.44

[Andrewbassg]

 

  

7 minutes ago, Sprockett said:

dictating the engagement. When too fire when to stop firing. It allows you in a Zao to constantly be a threat to the enemy flank and rear. If you are not a constantly firing your guns and giving your position away then you can be very dangerous for any enemy push.  If you are inside radar range - then you are not playing the Zao correctly. ZAO is a great ship but takes skill and patience to play well...

 

Well...yes and no. How you dictate the engagement in da derby? Moreso NOT firing your guns constantly in that mode, put your team at disadvantage. it is an attrition game. You cant do the sneaky killer thing there.

8 minutes ago, Sprockett said:

ZAO is a great ship but takes skill and patience to play well...

Maybe she was, buut....not anymore.

[Sprockett]

oh we are talking Dirgiabl derby - well it is obviously not the right ship for that game mode...

[SV_Kompresor]

8 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Maybe she was, buut....not anymore.

Well..."great" might be a bit of an overstatement, but she is quite a good ship if you're good at dodging shells. Thing is, she has quite the skill floor due to bad armor and her problem outside of that is that unlike all those new shiny supercruisers that wg keeps spamming out, she can't really blap ships too often (except DDs). So the overall amount you can carry is reduced.

[Animalul2012]

If you think zao is bad then you have never played gnevny.