Super (Broken) CVs - Shockingly late

[nerderklaus]

Edit: Super broken ships = super ships = T11 ships... Wasn't this obvious? This is about the general super ship issue that T10 is totally broken right now and super ships increase the issues in high tiers. Hence the the super ships are super broken ships and CVs obviously are the worst offenders with making misdesigns even worse. Some people in the threat obviously don't get that this is primarily about the two new super broken CVs.

 

Well, generally the super broken ships are an unnecesary issue and something that makes the game worse than it would be without them, but these new super broken CVs are potencially even more problematic.

 

There is all the CV criticism with too much safety, scaling on userskill being too low, too much vision, global activity, in some cases highly restricted counterplay and tier-by-tier powercreep worse than usual*

 

*with surface ships you actively need to abuse the tier-by-tier powercreep compared to most of the AA being automate when CVs strike

 

I am aware of the fact that creditibility of CV criticism has some limitations, because some people legitimately are just CV haters, but most of the current criticism is legitimate. Some of the issues with CVs have the CV player on the receiving end, f.e. the scenario of lower tier CV vs higher tier ship with good AA is usually ignored, BUT CVs usually have an even easier time against lower tiers, things get more broken in higher tiers and the vast majority of the ships facing a super broken CV will be tiered lower.

 

Most of the time they usually get a least one drop off (AA explosions from groups of ships or striking higher tier with good AA), but they usually lose some planes in retalisation. Compared to this the super CV has more solid and avoids a lot of damage with the fast planes that just pass through AA bubbles so that they can fly between ships, untouched in a way that no T10 CV can. It gets even worse with their drops seemingly being easy to aim making the complete drop process easier than it ever was with any other CV. There are even more issue with counterplay around this class than anywhere else.

 

Another major issue is the impact of one team getting a good CV player and one team getting a useless** CV player. Whenever I have seen a ranked battle with a good CV player against a useless CV player this random, uncontrollable factor decided the battle - GAMEBREAKING. In 12vs12 battles uneven CV players aren't pre-determining the battle, but the impact is still huge. This is because the individual impact of a toptier CV in 7vs7 is higher than it is in 12vs12. The problem is that a super broken CV has more impact in 12vs12 due to the powercreep from being a super broken ship and thereby the danger of a pre-determination from different players in the same position similar to ranked is getting real, again.

 

**could be AFK all the time, AFK part time or typical t10 player too

 

Super broken ships generally are broken due to too much impact and ways of turning the game even more campy, but the super broken CVs are the worst offenders. Generally the global impact of CVs is problematic, but now with much faster planes the downtime between global actions or switching areas of work on a map are lower. Stealth-dependend ships suffer even more on these reduced downtimes. You really feel when your allied supership does nothing and the enemy supership player gets carried by the powercreep, but with the super broken CVs it gets even more dangerous, because of the way how it effects the interactions between different classes.

 

"Interactions between different classes"... There are recent lessons learned on tampering with the class interactions. The developers certainly part some efforts into the submarines and tried different things, but any iteration of them harmed the overall gameplay experience without providing any benefit. It certainly wasted considerable resources compared to other internal WOWS projects. The submarine project was an attempt to add to the game and diversify the game. Compared to this the super broken ships in general feel like something that is doing nothing except for increasing already existing issues that effectively make lots of high tiers battles too boring and too frustrating.

 

I urge you to cancel the submarines and the super broken ships in regular PVP, but I want to point out that the super broken CVs are most problematic. I also want to note that the CV part of the super broken ships project is even more dangerous than the other classes, because CVs are still problematic. The CV rework still feels unfinished. Be reasonable, do damage control, cancel submarines and superships from the regular PVP gamemodes and maybe recycle them for special events or limited game modes. It is harming the game which has some potencial effects including reduced profits...

[Andrewbassg]

Oh comrade.......your criticism is reasonable, sound and valid. Unfortunately, people who play Cv's, generally speaking, are impervious to those. Not to mention Wedgie. They just want to shat on everybody.

[Miragetank90]

Not going to unpack the whole post, but tbh I don't find the Super CVs to be that ''super'', at least when it comes to United States. Haven't played Eagle yet. 

 

From my perspective if you are in a surface ship there are other, far older CVs that are more potentially dangerous to you. That's my impression for now. 

[Andrewbassg]

4 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

From my perspective if you are in a surface ship there are other, far older CVs that are more potentially dangerous to you. That's my impression for now. 

That's not what the post was about. It is about general game health.

[ThePolishDJ]

8 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

Not going to unpack the whole post, but tbh I don't find the Super CVs to be that ''super'', at least when it comes to United States. Haven't played Eagle yet. 

 

From my perspective if you are in a surface ship there are other, far older CVs that are more potentially dangerous to you. That's my impression for now. 

You could say that Eagle is a buffed version of Audacious, as for the United States... I'd take Midway over it.

[SodaBubbles]

LOL. Never mind the Stuporships, current CVs already suck hard enough. I just saw the Hornet in the wild. I was in Prince Rupprecht. It made three passes at me, focusing me. Took 1/3 of my health with bombs, took another 1/3 with next bomb run, then came with torps and knocked me down to nothing. 

I shot down 5 planes. Five. In three passes.

 

This is not a gameplay mechanic. This is a sociopathology. Whoever thinks it is fun has serious problems and requires therapy. 

 

[Japualtah]

Oh, an arty thread, sounds familiar after 11 years on WoT.

I just got the Midway and, so far, it's been the hardest class to play in this game for me.

 

I've watched SeMeN's channel and saying CVs are low skill after seeing what that guy can do with his Midway compared to I can do is either hilarious or frustrating, I can't decide.

What I know is that my son, super Unicum in WoT playing at 3.7k WN8 in a top clan, was so frustrated with his Rhein that I had to finish the grind for him, after which he sold the ship and will never buy the tier VI.

He's doing wonders in his Mainz though, his only tier VIII at the moment.

 

So, yeah, we both are noobs in this game and experience will maybe change our mind but even with a supership we would still suck.

Planes can get vaporized in seconds, dodging flak is some form of art and connecting torpedoes is much harder that giving some lead with arty in WoT.

 

Judging by the waiting queue, CVs are the least played class, there must be a reason.

[nerderklaus]

1 hour ago, Japualtah said:

Oh, an arty thread, sounds familiar after 11 years on WoT.

I just got the Midway and, so far, it's been the hardest class to play in this game for me.

 

I've watched SeMeN's channel and saying CVs are low skill after seeing what that guy can do with his Midway compared to I can do is either hilarious or frustrating, I can't decide.

What I know is that my son, super Unicum in WoT playing at 3.7k WN8 in a top clan, was so frustrated with his Rhein that I had to finish the grind for him, after which he sold the ship and will never buy the tier VI.

He's doing wonders in his Mainz though, his only tier VIII at the moment.

 

So, yeah, we both are noobs in this game and experience will maybe change our mind but even with a supership we would still suck.

Planes can get vaporized in seconds, dodging flak is some form of art and connecting torpedoes is much harder that giving some lead with arty in WoT.

 

Judging by the waiting queue, CVs are the least played class, there must be a reason.

Admitting to prohibited account sharing on official WG forums? Interesting!

 

You know whats interesting too? Reports of such people letting others play bad vehicles instead of skipping them with converted XP like stockgrinds.

 

I killed more than enough T-50-2 in my SPGs when they still were regular tech tree tanks.

[nerderklaus]

2 hours ago, ThePolishDJ said:

You could say that Eagle is a buffed version of Audacious, as for the United States... I'd take Midway over it.

Most of the impressions came from fighting Eagles. In regards to damage dealt it only felt like a bit more than the non-RN T10 CVs, but the way how it maintains much more plains and most squadrons arrive much faster were problematic. This way the carrier can react faster to work on a different area and needs to worry less about losing planes while doing more spotting. It really adds up...

[SodaBubbles]

1 minute ago, nerderklaus said:

Most of the impressions came from fighting Eagles. In regards to damage dealt it only felt like a bit more than the non-RN T10 CVs, but the way how it maintains much more plains and most squadrons arrive much faster were problematic. This way the carrier can react faster to work on a different area and needs to worry less about losing planes while doing more spotting. It really adds up...

...to a disaster for game play. 

 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 3 Stunden, Japualtah sagte:

Oh, an arty thread, sounds familiar after 11 years on WoT.

I just got the Midway and, so far, it's been the hardest class to play in this game for me.

 

I've watched SeMeN's channel and saying CVs are low skill after seeing what that guy can do with his Midway compared to I can do is either hilarious or frustrating, I can't decide.

 

Low skill doesn't mean no skill.

Just because you haven't yet figured out how to make them work doesn't mean CVs are not broken.

[Andrewbassg]

5 hours ago, Japualtah said:

Oh, an arty thread, sounds familiar after 11 years on WoT.

 

Erm.....no not really. Arty can't spot for himself let alone for his team. The comparison is not even close.

 

Also arty doesn't have a frakkin shield.

[Miscommunication_dept]

6 hours ago, ThePolishDJ said:

You could say that Eagle is a buffed version of Audacious, as for the United States... I'd take Midway over it.

I agree. Unfortunately, apart from Audacious, all tier ten CVs are super ships.

[Adm_Lindemann]

10 hours ago, nerderklaus said:

Well, generally the super broken ships are an unnecesary issue and something that makes the game worse than it would be without them, but these new super broken CVs are potencially even more problematic.

 

There is all the CV criticism with too much safety, scaling on userskill being too low, too much vision, global activity, in some cases highly restricted counterplay and tier-by-tier powercreep worse than usual*

 

*with surface ships you actively need to abuse the tier-by-tier powercreep compared to most of the AA being automate when CVs strike

 

I am aware of the fact that creditibility of CV criticism has some limitations, because some people legitimately are just CV haters, but most of the current criticism is legitimate. Some of the issues with CVs have the CV player on the receiving end, f.e. the scenario of lower tier CV vs higher tier ship with good AA is usually ignored, BUT CVs usually have an even easier time against lower tiers, things get more broken in higher tiers and the vast majority of the ships facing a super broken CV will be tiered lower.

 

Most of the time they usually get a least one drop off (AA explosions from groups of ships or striking higher tier with good AA), but they usually lose some planes in retalisation. Compared to this the super CV has more solid and avoids a lot of damage with the fast planes that just pass through AA bubbles so that they can fly between ships, untouched in a way that no T10 CV can. It gets even worse with their drops seemingly being easy to aim making the complete drop process easier than it ever was with any other CV. There are even more issue with counterplay around this class than anywhere else.

 

Another major issue is the impact of one team getting a good CV player and one team getting a useless** CV player. Whenever I have seen a ranked battle with a good CV player against a useless CV player this random, uncontrollable factor decided the battle - GAMEBREAKING. In 12vs12 battles uneven CV players aren't pre-determining the battle, but the impact is still huge. This is because the individual impact of a toptier CV in 7vs7 is higher than it is in 12vs12. The problem is that a super broken CV has more impact in 12vs12 due to the powercreep from being a super broken ship and thereby the danger of a pre-determination from different players in the same position similar to ranked is getting real, again.

 

**could be AFK all the time, AFK part time or typical t10 player too

 

Super broken ships generally are broken due to too much impact and ways of turning the game even more campy, but the super broken CVs are the worst offenders. Generally the global impact of CVs is problematic, but now with much faster planes the downtime between global actions or switching areas of work on a map are lower. Stealth-dependend ships suffer even more on these reduced downtimes. You really feel when your allied supership does nothing and the enemy supership player gets carried by the powercreep, but with the super broken CVs it gets even more dangerous, because of the way how it effects the interactions between different classes.

 

"Interactions between different classes"... There are recent lessons learned on tampering with the class interactions. The developers certainly part some efforts into the submarines and tried different things, but any iteration of them harmed the overall gameplay experience without providing any benefit. It certainly wasted considerable resources compared to other internal WOWS projects. The submarine project was an attempt to add to the game and diversify the game. Compared to this the super broken ships in general feel like something that is doing nothing except for increasing already existing issues that effectively make lots of high tiers battles too boring and too frustrating.

 

I urge you to cancel the submarines and the super broken ships in regular PVP, but I want to point out that the super broken CVs are most problematic. I also want to note that the CV part of the super broken ships project is even more dangerous than the other classes, because CVs are still problematic. The CV rework still feels unfinished. Be reasonable, do damage control, cancel submarines and superships from the regular PVP gamemodes and maybe recycle them for special events or limited game modes. It is harming the game which has some potencial effects including reduced profits...

I don't know, how long you play the game, but earlier the CVs were decision makers with an RTS-style gameplay. Now they are decision makers again with non-RTS style BUT...

 

There are RTS-style CVs again: began with FDR, continued with fantasy/scifi/never-existent russian craps and finally the super CVs.

 

Doesn't matter, whatever veegee state, they are not taking care of the playerbase feedback and continuously lying about it.

[invicta2012]

9 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

I just saw the Hornet in the wild. I was in Prince Rupprecht. It made three passes at me, focusing me. Took 1/3 of my health with bombs, took another 1/3 with next bomb run, then came with torps and knocked me down to nothing. 

Ah. Presumably Hornet has AP Bombers? Without wanting to be too concilatory, whacking BBs - especially German ones -  is what they are for.... aren't they supposed to be balanced by being difficult to land or some such? 

[SodaBubbles]

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Ah. Presumably Hornet has AP Bombers? Without wanting to be too concilatory, whacking BBs - especially German ones -  is what they are for.... aren't they supposed to be balanced by being difficult to land or some such? 

 

I dont know. I do know that when that POS comes into the game, I will not be playing any German BBs. What's the point? What kind of mind thinks that is good gameplay? 

[Takethatyoubeast]

2 hours ago, Adm_Lindemann said:

Doesn't matter, whatever veegee state, they are not taking care of the playerbase feedback and continuously lying about it.

This ^^^
 

I don’t ever blame players for playing CV’s - it’s a legit class

 

The responsibility for this class and how broken or OP you consider it to be is due to WG alone

 

They are determined to have both CV’s and subs in the game regardless of the feedback we give them

 

My feedback is to permanently close my wallet and play low tier games 

[invicta2012]

30 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

I dont know. I do know that when that POS comes into the game, I will not be playing any German BBs. What's the point? What kind of mind thinks that is good gameplay? 

It does, (I looked). Any CV with AP bombers (which are virtually useless against ships without armored decks, you'll just get over pens) will do this, and they will focus German BBs because their armour scheme makes any AP hit a citadel. So it's not just Hornet, you can do this with a Ryujo or a Weser or any number of other CVS. And then you can come back and keep on doing it.

 

WG has balanced up high tier CVs in the way that they've balanced BBs, so that three good strikes will do catastrophic damage, but have forgotten that there are fewer ways of mitigating CV attacks.

 

Hornet should be a model for better CVs - fewer, hard hitting attacks, which take skill to land and which give their targets a chance to defend and recover. Not just the spam spam spam they currently have. 

[BreadLed]

11 hours ago, Japualtah said:

 

Judging by the waiting queue, CVs are the least played class, there must be a reason.

On my main account I have highest WR in CVs even if I am the least experienced with them. I play them least of all classes because gameplay is very repetitive and it gets boring quickly.

There is no risk so no adrenaline, you just fly then farm, fly then farm...

Obviously you need to have the basics right like, flak dodging, target/ammo selection, minimap reading and positioning.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

12 hours ago, Japualtah said:

Oh, an arty thread, sounds familiar after 11 years on WoT.

I just got the Midway and, so far, it's been the hardest class to play in this game for me.

 

I've watched SeMeN's channel and saying CVs are low skill after seeing what that guy can do with his Midway compared to I can do is either hilarious or frustrating, I can't decide.

What I know is that my son, super Unicum in WoT playing at 3.7k WN8 in a top clan, was so frustrated with his Rhein that I had to finish the grind for him, after which he sold the ship and will never buy the tier VI.

He's doing wonders in his Mainz though, his only tier VIII at the moment.

 

So, yeah, we both are noobs in this game and experience will maybe change our mind but even with a supership we would still suck.

Planes can get vaporized in seconds, dodging flak is some form of art and connecting torpedoes is much harder that giving some lead with arty in WoT.

 

Judging by the waiting queue, CVs are the least played class, there must be a reason.

I had pretty much the same issue with the Midway, for it was was when you drop the torps and they go off in all directions, by the time you have fully aimed you are shot to  pieces, either way it is gone, by far the easiest  (and I am a bad CV player) T 10  was the Audacious all my T 10 CV's are gone now anyway so it is a moot point anyway.

[invicta2012]

2 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

I had pretty much the same issue with the Midway, for it was was when you drop the torps and they go off in all directions, by the time you have fully aimed you are shot to  pieces, either way it is gone, by far the easiest  (and I am a bad CV player) T 10  was the Audacious all my T 10 CV's are gone now anyway so it is a moot point anyway.

Wrong CV, old man. You want one of the new ones where you can line up attacks from the edge of the AA zone with your skip bombers and 6k torps. 

[Hopeless_Guppy]

Just now, invicta2012 said:

Wrong CV, old man. You want one of the new ones where you can line up attacks from the edge of the AA zone with your skip bombers and 6k torps. 

Ah yes that egg on face moment when you are thinking of your alt account,  on this one having just checked the Midway, Audacious, and Baron von Richtofen are all there sitting pretty in the dock, surprising how you can lose ships in an overcrowded port lol

As for the Russian CV it is that tempting teaser to go get it but then I do not play T 10 CV's so don't really see a reason why I should get it, much to everyone's relief

[nerderklaus]

I had to clarify, because some people obviously think that this is about CVs in general. The thread is about the new super CVs. It should be obvious what the nickname "Super Broken Ships" refers to.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

43 minutes ago, nerderklaus said:

I had to clarify, because some people obviously think that this is about CVs in general. The thread is about the new super CVs. It should be obvious what the nickname "Super Broken Ships" refers to.

Ah yes my apologies for not referring to super CV's most will hate them just for playing CV's others will become very good with them as  I won't be bothering with any of them the won't affect me that much.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

10 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

Wrong CV, old man. You want one of the new ones where you can line up attacks from the edge of the AA zone with your skip bombers and 6k torps. 

You have no idea what you are saying dude. Midway is the strongest CV in t10