With all thsee rocks and mountains in maps is WowS STILL A NAVAL GAME?

[Anthoniusii]

I have played World of Tanks for the very 1st day untill 0.9.11 patch that became a fantacy game .

When i saw this game i thought it would be somehow more realistic. I was wrong. With all these rocks and mountains we can not play a naval battle.

Since the introduction of heavy Soviet Cruisers and Battleships the game became an artilery one. Every one hides behind a rock or go backwards thinking that his/her ship is a tank and not a ship. There is no room for naval tactics like the crossing 8 , line of battle, crossing  T and douzens of others, Only the Ocean map could fit the game as a naval one but iot seams that the majority of the players and the developers still see their ships like tanks without wheels. So i sugest to re-name the game to have a title more apropriate!

 

[ColonelPete]

World of whiny players

[Exocet6951]

Triple the hp for cruisers and DDs, increase their range and/or improve their ballistics for the worst of them, then we can talk about remove islands. 

 

 

Otherwise no thank you, I'd rather eat my own shoe rather than play Atlanta on Ocean.

[Siagor]

16 hours ago, Anthoniusii said:

 Only the Ocean map could fit the game as a naval one

 

Amen!

 

I've said it too, this is simply a World of Tanks but with water instead of open fields. Here you also hide behind the bush islands, that's the know of this game - the best hiding spots from where you'd snipe ones who enter the killing field, an ever more boring camping fiesta as you go up the tiers.

 

WG couldn't develop a true naval game (being arcade-ish has nothing to do with it) but made this the only way they knew, gameplay as for Tanks, counting on the same people going into Ships with already learned camping style.

[Anthoniusii]

1 minute ago, Exocet6951 said:

Triple the hp for cruisers and DDs, increase their range and/or improve their ballistics for the worst of them, then we can talk about remove islands. 

 

 

Otherwise no thank you, I'd rather eat my own shoe rather than play Atlanta on Ocean.

Sure on the other hand removalk of the Battlehsip hit penalrty against Destroyers and add limited torpedos per battle per Destroyer. Its funny to have 15 torpedos launced every 1 minute , same time a main gun requires to load and fire.

In a ranked battle a Ragnar Destroyer of our team was 6.2 kms away from enemy Napoli Cruiser without ussing smoke and the cruiser could not spot it. So triple the spoting ranges according to main must tower hight. Fuso had 100 spoters in reality that could see a 90m ship formiles!  Do you agree with this compromise?

 

[PeteEarthling]

It's Fortnite with a shrinking percentage of historical ships.

[Anthoniusii]

2 minutes ago, Siagor said:

Amen!

 

I've said it too, this is simply a World of Tanks but with water instead of open fields. Here you also hide behind the bush islands, that's the know of this game - the best hiding spots from where you'd snipe ones who enter the killing field, an ever more boring camping fiesta as you go up the tiers.

 

WG couldn't develop a true naval game (being arcade-ish has nothing to do with is) but made this the only way they knew, as for Tanks, counting on the same people going into Ships with already learned camping style.

True i see lemmings trains every day! they can not forget the World of tanks habbits. I remember the good old days in World of Tanks 0.0.6 patch that it was the skill of the player that had the primary role. WG destroyed the game intridusing Type 59 in tier 7 in patch 0.0.7 that was a close of T-54 that was a tier 10 back then! Later added autolodinig tanks without restriction of time that should need to be holded inorder to reoload and the game -as I took a late view- bacame total fantacy. Unforthunatly WG in this game followed the same recipe and they will end up to sent all players to War Thunder.

[SV_Kompresor]

No thank you. Real life open water naval battles sucked.

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

Sure on the other hand removalk of the Battlehsip hit penalrty against Destroyers and add limited torpedos per battle per Destroyer. Its funny to have 15 torpedos launced every 1 minute , same time a main gun requires to load and fire.

In a ranked battle a Ragnar Destroyer of our team was 6.2 kms away from enemy Napoli Cruiser without ussing smoke and the cruiser could not spot it. So triple the spoting ranges according to main must tower hight. Fuso had 100 spoters in reality that could see a 90m ship formiles!  Do you agree with this compromise?

Spoiler

WG Ranked Stats from Oct 2021

 

And still DD do not do well damage-wise....

[Stormhawk_V]

4 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

Sure on the other hand removalk of the Battlehsip hit penalrty against Destroyers and add limited torpedos per battle per Destroyer. Its funny to have 15 torpedos launced every 1 minute , same time a main gun requires to load and fire.

Great, more selective realism! You think it would be fun to play BBs with a 3% main battery hitratio? This game is balanced around having almost as many of the historically rarest shiptype as all other shiptypes combined in a single match. How to spot a sub 50% WR BB main 101.

[Exocet6951]

2 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

Sure on the other hand removalk of the Battlehsip hit penalrty against Destroyers and add limited torpedos per battle per Destroyer. Its funny to have 15 torpedos launced every 1 minute , same time a main gun requires to load and fire.

In a ranked battle a Ragnar Destroyer of our team was 6.2 kms away from enemy Napoli Cruiser without ussing smoke and the cruiser could not spot it. So triple the spoting ranges according to main must tower hight. Fuso had 100 spoters in reality that could see a 90m ship formiles!  Do you agree with this compromise?

 

 

Ah, so limited torpedoes as well? 

 

In that case I'm sure you would agree to have 2% hit rates, quasi invisible torpedoes which do catastrophic damage, and having fires be vastly more threatening, where they obviously can't just be extinguished with a single key. Speaking of, repairs took hours IRL, so should take hours in-game too. 

 

 

And that's the problem right there, you have to draw the line where realism meets good game play, without cherry picking what's best for your favorite type of ship. 

[BoxOfAngryBees]

realistic battles would be really unfun

 

dont get me wrong - the game as-is can be bettered massively through different changes - but remember:

its a game

 

nobody ever really promised realism

[Sink_Different]

Battles of Savo Islands, the great Mariannas Turkey shoot and hundreds more.

Learn you history before creating a useless thread.

[Anthoniusii]

1 minute ago, BoxOfAngryBees said:

realistic battles would be really unfun

 

dont get me wrong - the game as-is can be bettered massively through different changes - but remember:

its a game

 

nobody ever really promised realism

I am a moder creating a mod (see my signature) for 14 years to get it as realistic and historical as it gets and know the limitations well. I know that there will be no real realistic game but some things have to take care.

For example 40% less roscks and mountains in every map so the Battleship players could focus on fighting and not trying to avoid colision and finally crusier players wond HIDE expecting their teammates to win for them.

I played Killer whale mision and got an idea. Every team could have a forified base that damaged ships could withdraw and repair or replenish ammunition and that base could be destroyeable by the enemy. That way all ships would adjust their tactics , have limited ammunition per kind and make a more realistic battle mod without a map full of rocks and mountains.

[Anthoniusii]

5 minutes ago, Sink_Different said:

Battles of Savo Islands, the great Mariannas Turkey shoot and hundreds more.

Learn you history before creating a useless thread.

I am an historian How many naval battles were inside an aisland complex and how many in open seas? lets make north atlantic a lake though! in your prospective. Lets make south atlantic a lake. Or even Midway battle a shore naval battle too!

[Montrala]

2 minuty temu, Anthoniusii napisał:

I am an historian

It is arcade game, not a naval simulator. Ships, water, rocks are containers used to deliver gameplay mechanics loosely resembling naval battle, with aim to provide enough enjoyment to create addiction, that will allow monetization. Either enjoy it enough to keep playing or just move along and find something more entertaining. There is long line of companies that would love to have a piece of your wallet.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

35 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

Triple the hp for cruisers and DDs, increase their range and/or improve their ballistics for the worst of them, then we can talk about remove islands. 

 

 

Otherwise no thank you, I'd rather eat my own shoe rather than play Atlanta on Ocean.

 

I'm game if you are.

[Freyr_A2]

8 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

Sure on the other hand removalk of the Battlehsip hit penalrty against Destroyers and add limited torpedos per battle per Destroyer. Its funny to have 15 torpedos launced every 1 minute , same time a main gun requires to load and fire.

In a ranked battle a Ragnar Destroyer of our team was 6.2 kms away from enemy Napoli Cruiser without ussing smoke and the cruiser could not spot it. So triple the spoting ranges according to main must tower hight. Fuso had 100 spoters in reality that could see a 90m ship formiles!  Do you agree with this compromise?

 

 

Firstly, BB's don't have a noticable hit penalty against DD's.  The biggest issue you have is that at 30KM away we can do a 180 degree turn and be somewhere else by the time your shells have landed, in the same way that you can turn to avoid shells from our little pop guns at our maximum gun range.  If you shoot from more realistic ranges you'll get more hits.

 

Secondly, i'm playing DD's at the moment.  My T8 DD has 8 torpedoes, which reload in 1:30.  The BB's get a shot in 25-30 seconds, which means that you get 3 broadsides for each of my torpedo launches at a minimum, or 4 on some BB's.  You can also avoid my torpedoes by steering slightly to either side occasionally, or reducing and increasing speed.  I can only get a devastating strike/instant kill on you by landing 75% of an entire torpedo salvo on you, which is something of a rare occurrence given that most players have torpedo accuracy in single digits compared to about 40% accuracy on BB shells.  (which by the by is way to high; the wartime figure for WW1 was ~1% accuracy)

 

I'd be quite happy to triple spotting your spotting ranges, although in return i'd want weather conditions to be an "every game" occurrence to interfere with the theoretical maximum ranges, hydro to work as it did during the war in it's guise as ASDIC (ie; only giving a bearing and range on a submarine, instead of giving 6km warning on incoming torps).   And i'd want flooding to proceed for the full time of the leak without being magically repairable by the damage party by hitting R.

[Sink_Different]

41 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

I am an historian How many naval battles were inside an aisland complex and how many in open seas? lets make north atlantic a lake though! in your prospective. Lets make south atlantic a lake. Or even Midway battle a shore naval battle too!

You are whatever you want I couldn't care less 

But now tell us how many copy/pasta of Ocean would suit your needs?

 

[Pandafaust]

1 hour ago, Anthoniusii said:

Chose the proper re-name of the Game

 

I mean "World of Ships without wheels" is fairly close, as there aren't many wheels on my ships.  In your fantasy idea of the game whilst you're playing, what proportion of time does your ship spend on land, compared to on the water?

[Communist_Loli]

8 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

For example 40% less roscks and mountains in every map so the Battleship players could focus on fighting and not trying to avoid colision and finally crusier players wond HIDE expecting their teammates to win for them.

Not sure you have the right to talk about cruiser players expecting teammates to win for them when you essentially do the same, judging by your cruiser stats...

[SobanRe]

While I agree that some island are necessary. I can also see the other side. Their are some islands that are so shallow that even a Petro can't hide behind and only limit the room for maneuvers and some island are far too close to some spawn locations, that you have to take a great detour to get to right course to the cap point.

 

[SkollUlfr]

how islands are used in this game is a symptom of other problems, not the cause.

[FlyingBender]

Islands? if you want reality remove the magical 'R' and heal from your BB. Then, we can talk.

[Zerberus76]

Vor 2 Stunden, Anthoniusii sagte:

.....

 

So, bottom line, you want more "realism"?

Ok. That shoudln´t be too hard.

WG just has to:
1.remove all obstacles.
2. Give larger ships shorter reload times and more accurate fire, esp US and german battle ships that had radar fire control.
3. Give us all limited ammunition.  Those 15 torpedoes every minute or so from a Shimakaze? you can do that twice in the entire match, with 5-10 minutes in beteween salvos.
4. throw away most consumables.  What? Your rudder got taken out by a torpedo? Sayonara ship, Hola Davey Jones.
5. as a direct result of 4, hydro and Radar are now permanently on and have ranges of 10 and 20 miles, respectively. Upside: They can´t see through mountains anymore, because there are no more mountains.
6. Throw away the hitpoint system and introduce realistic damage models.  Take a 16 inch AP below the waterline? You´re going down eventually, likey sooner rather than later, even if you don´t take a scratch the next 15 minutes.

7,8,9,10,.100..

The resulting gameplay, in no small part as a result of players not understanding(or even wanting to) actual naval tactics and being incapable of communicating 9 times out of ten:

All but the tankiest batttleships cower in fear at the map edges, praying that they don´t get detected by enemy radar.  And when they do, 60 seconds later so many accurate shells come flying in that whoever got detected gets deleted because no matter how realistic the dispersion is, if you throw enough crap at the wall, eventually some of it is going to stick.

And when everyone has run out of ammo or had their guns disabled, it becomes a ramming match.

Soooo much fun....