Italian DDs

[Beaker71]

Maybe it's the players playing them - but the low tier Italian DDs make something like the clubson seem under powered.

I've just reset the Brit DD line, so playing low tier,  and every time there is a Italian DD - pretty much guarantee a loss. SAP, fast reload, smoke, high hit points and the torps seem ok (unless they were coming from other DDs). Dunno what the devs are smoking - but i'd like some....

 

[Itwastuesday]

I don't have an opinion on them yet, but perhaps overcompensating for the hilariously terrible italian bb nobody plays anymore?

[Verblonde]

If it's testers playing them, then they'll presumably perform better than an average player?

 

I may be wrong, but I'd got the impression that these things are all about close range engagements? If that's the case, they'll be much harder work at the tiers that matter (sorry - that's a bit high-tier-centric, but you get what I mean), due to all the vision control consumables running around (hydro/radar), and CV spotting (not to mention the imminent return of bloody submarines)...?

 

Whether it's true or not remains to be seen, but didn't the Dev Blog make them sound kind-of like a tree of Yolo Emilios? If that's the case, they could be fun, but probably not excessively influential?

[General_Alexus]

The only way to fight them is if you go bow in and only shoot with your front guns. Bonuspoints for loading AP. Hydro helps as well.

That beeing said: You rarly have a situation where you can just go bow in and morv strait towards/reverse from someone, because other people will spamm HE at you.

[lafeel]

40 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

I don't have an opinion on them yet, but perhaps overcompensating for the hilariously terrible italian bb nobody plays anymore?

Speak for yourself.

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

Maybe it's the players playing them - but the low tier Italian DDs make something like the clubson seem under powered.

I've just reset the Brit DD line, so playing low tier,  and every time there is a Italian DD - pretty much guarantee a loss. SAP, fast reload, smoke, high hit points and the torps seem ok (unless they were coming from other DDs). Dunno what the devs are smoking - but i'd like some....

The ricochet angles on the lower tier DDs have been changed - https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/275. They used to have a Tachibana-esque ability to avoid ricochet. Now it's still good - like Paolo Emilio or an RN CL or high tier DD - but that should make it possible to get into a gun fight with them without SAP being an "I Win" button. 

[Bahnackson]

Please dont forget with Sansonetti you get more Range on the Guns after one Kill. At the Moment you can Change Sansonetti from Ship to Ship for free. All Premiums. This Change after the Line gets Live. 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Just a reminder that I 100% recognise that "All taste is personal".

That said, i have misgivings about the line.  Accordingto the devblog (https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/275) there are two possible play styles.

 

"At high tiers, more gameplay options open up, and players can choose between two different strategies:

• • A cautious approach centered on making the most of the ships' fast-reloading long-range torpedoes.
  • A "high risk — high reward" aggressive playstyle focused on using consumables in conjunction with guns and torpedoes to close the distance quickly and safely enough to deliver a devastating point-blank attack.

In the right hands, the combination of these two strategies can be used to great effect, and can certainly get more than a little adrenaline flowing."

 

The "high risk — high reward" phrase was first used to describe the British Light cruisers. A more hectic style of play which some people absolutely love and will (as the text says) "certainly get more than a little adrenaline flowing".  But a style that I loathe.

 

Much as I love Italy...I'll have to reserve judgement on this line, and prepare for disappointment.

 

[FatherTorque]

In the devblog it says:

 

"The most similar experience to this found currently in the game is Paolo Emilio — the main difference being that the tech tree Italian destroyers will need to lean more on their guns."

 

What i see from this phrase is techtree DDs will have better guns with higher dpm but worse torpedoes with less damage (for high tiers).

[Aethervoxx]

I just want Ita DDs in the game. It sure took them long enough to offer them. I will likely be obtaining & stopping at  the T5 Maestrale

[Aragathor]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:08 PM, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

A "high risk — high reward" aggressive playstyle focused on using consumables in conjunction with guns and torpedoes to close the distance quickly and safely enough to deliver a devastating point-blank attack.

I read this as:

 

Yolo in, get spotted by a DD with better concealment. Get closer, enemy DD smokes up, enemy radar lights you up. You die a useless sucker having done 0 damage.

 

The more I see the stats of the ships, the more I realize those will be absolute stinkers that will have 0 effect on the enemy team. I keep seeing testers play the ships and just die when spotted, with no counterplay.

[_Lupastro_]

1 ora fa, Aragathor ha scritto:

I read this as:

 

Yolo in, get spotted by a DD with better concealment. Get closer, enemy DD smokes up, enemy radar lights you up. You die a useless sucker having done 0 damage.

 

The more I see the stats of the ships, the more I realize those will be absolute stinkers that will have 0 effect on the enemy team. I keep seeing testers play the ships and just die when spotted, with no counterplay.

More or less I agree.
I met them 3 times and all three times they were outspotted by the enemy DD well in advance and sank miserably.
It must be said that their SAP really hurt other DDs, as long as they do not put themselves in now tanking.

[Hugh_Ruka]

3 hours ago, Aragathor said:

I read this as:

 

Yolo in, get spotted by a DD with better concealment. Get closer, enemy DD smokes up, enemy radar lights you up. You die a useless sucker having done 0 damage.

 

The more I see the stats of the ships, the more I realize those will be absolute stinkers that will have 0 effect on the enemy team. I keep seeing testers play the ships and just die when spotted, with no counterplay.

They have a similar playstyle to the French DDs from my PoV. You spam long range torps (French do gunfire) until a yolo opportunity arises and you do a hit and run, then fall back.

[invicta2012]

4 hours ago, Aragathor said:

I read this as:

 

Yolo in, get spotted by a DD with better concealment. Get closer, enemy DD smokes up, enemy radar lights you up. You die a useless sucker having done 0 damage.

 

The more I see the stats of the ships, the more I realize those will be absolute stinkers that will have 0 effect on the enemy team. I keep seeing testers play the ships and just die when spotted, with no counterplay.

That's because they're mistaking "Ambush" for "YOLO".  What happened to "Don't Die" as the first rule of DD play? These ships have 10km torpedoes at Tier V, why are they launching themselves (rather than the torps) into caps? 

[DDMafiaAssociateMember]

5 hours ago, Aragathor said:

I read this as:

 

Yolo in, get spotted by a DD with better concealment. Get closer, enemy DD smokes up, enemy radar lights you up. You die a useless sucker having done 0 damage.

 

The more I see the stats of the ships, the more I realize those will be absolute stinkers that will have 0 effect on the enemy team. I keep seeing testers play the ships and just die when spotted, with no counterplay.

This could easily also apply to French DDs though, and they're fine.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

That's because they're mistaking "Ambush" for "YOLO".  What happened to "Don't Die" as the first rule of DD play? These ships have 10km torpedoes at Tier V, why are they launching themselves (rather than the torps) into caps? 

I would do EXACTLY as you advise in PvP.

 

As a low-life coop peasant, i'm contemplating the prospect of playing these Italian DDs in PvE, however.

 

Despite what a certain argumentative Colonel believes however, the bots know when long-rang torps are coming at them and take evasive measures. You have to get so close that you don't give them chance to evade the torps!

[Aragathor]

6 hours ago, who_dares_wins said:

This could easily also apply to French DDs though, and they're fine.

French DDs have several things that allow even complete potatoes to play them.

 

-Gun range is much better than other DDs at tier.

-Reload booster allows for quick burst damage when faced with an enemy.

-From T8 up the torpedoes pack a wallop. They are also quite fast.

-All ships are very fast.

-The hull has a special damage saturation mechanic allowing parts of the ship to reach 0 hp with no consequence.

 

The Italian DDs don't even have half of that, and they have been nerfed recently.

[DDMafiaAssociateMember]

27 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

French DDs have several things that allow even complete potatoes to play them.

 

-Gun range is much better than other DDs at tier.

-Reload booster allows for quick burst damage when faced with an enemy.

-From T8 up the torpedoes pack a wallop. They are also quite fast.

-All ships are very fast.

-The hull has a special damage saturation mechanic allowing parts of the ship to reach 0 hp with no consequence.

 

The Italian DDs don't even have half of that, and they have been nerfed recently.

I don't agree with the assessment that Italian DDs are going to suck. Their exhaust smoke will allow them to be much more aggressive when hunting down an enemy DD, and their DPM is very high last time I checked. Potatoes will fail in them because they'll require very good map awareness but I don't see how a good player won't be able to have a good impact in them.

[Hirohito]

18 minutes ago, who_dares_wins said:

I don't agree with the assessment that Italian DDs are going to suck. Their exhaust smoke will allow them to be much more aggressive when hunting down an enemy DD, and their DPM is very high last time I checked. Potatoes will fail in them because they'll require very good map awareness but I don't see how a good player won't be able to have a good impact in them.

Against a bad enemy DD I could see it, but against a good one who knows when to outspot and go dark?
You're then stuck there, blind as a bat while everyone knows roughly where you are for blindfire/torping purposes.

We kinda had that issue when back in T9 CBs (in my old clan) our leader insisted on running Paolo Emilio.
Granted that boat has crap dpm, but he just got repeatedly outspotted against good DD players and just had to concede more and more map space, where he and the rest of his flank were lit up while their flank had full vision.

I cant see that DD being good at high levels of play, though I might be wrong of course.

[General_Alexus]

8 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

I cant see that DD being good at high levels of play.

I had some unicums playing them against me, always on the other side of the map so I could not deny them, but they dumpstered my team soo quick it was disgusting (in the 2 games I remember they also had a division so I dont know about solo)

 

I immagine them to be good destroyer escord, the SAP DPM is filthy, and the cammo good enough (compare russian DDs who were supposed to do DD escord), the Torps are good enough to play on an empty flank as well, the fuelsmoke lets you pull uf "yolos" without loosing too much HP. I see them having good impact in the hands of competent players, but they wont be able to just farm BBs from range like other Gunboats can.

[Hirohito]

2 minutes ago, General_Alexus said:

I immagine them to be good destroyer escord, the SAP DPM is filthy, and the cammo good enough (compare russian DDs who were supposed to do DD escord), the Torps are good enough to play on an empty flank as well, the fuelsmoke lets you pull uf "yolos" without loosing too much HP. I see them having good impact in the hands of competent players, but they wont be able to just farm BBs from range like other Gunboats can.

DD escort was what I was thinking too, but not as the single DD on a flank.
Me and a mate met a unicum division (T10 italian DD + Petro) in Benson and me in an Anchorage (both T8s, FML).
We had some absolutely crap boats to stop such a unicum division, but by playing the outspotting game we stopped them dead in their tracks despite their DD trying his best to pick a fight, just because of careful concealment play and zoning tactics.

[Aethervoxx]

7 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Despite what a certain argumentative Colonel believes

Now, who could this possibly be? (LOL)

[Aragathor]

52 minutes ago, who_dares_wins said:

I don't agree with the assessment that Italian DDs are going to suck. Their exhaust smoke will allow them to be much more aggressive when hunting down an enemy DD, and their DPM is very high last time I checked. Potatoes will fail in them because they'll require very good map awareness but I don't see how a good player won't be able to have a good impact in them.

What then? Because all the exhaust smoke won't help against a radar cruiser or  a BB that you can't one shot with torps.

If the ship line can only counter DDs then I don't see the point. After all there are many more classes that need to be dealt with, and I can't imagine an Ita DD being able to creep up on a German BB.

[invicta2012]

3 hours ago, Aragathor said:

After all there are many more classes that need to be dealt with, and I can't imagine an Ita DD being able to creep up on a German BB.

They can't, but you can troll the BB with italian torpedoes, just as anyone with any sense does with their Italian CLs. I quite like the idea of that playstyle.

[DDMafiaAssociateMember]

3 hours ago, Aragathor said:

What then? Because all the exhaust smoke won't help against a radar cruiser or  a BB that you can't one shot with torps.

If the ship line can only counter DDs then I don't see the point. After all there are many more classes that need to be dealt with, and I can't imagine an Ita DD being able to creep up on a German BB.

With the range buffs and AFT it'll likely be much more viable to farm larger targets with SAP, possibly from within the smoke. At the end of the day we can discuss stats until the cows come home but we'll only know for sure when we get our hands on them.