I don't get the WG strategy behind superships

[Trench4nt]

After the recent Mino-"Upgrade" being released, I actually do not understand what would be the future of those ships?

 

It seems like WG takes the (best) T10 ship of a nation and upgrades it to be even more powerful. Hence, current T10 ships, particularly those for steel, coal, and RP ships get massively devalued. Obviously, adding more of those ships into the game and letting them become usual ships in random matches destroys the whole game economy?! I mean, most of the players grinding for T10?!

Why should I play Minotaur when I can be much more effective in Edgar? 

Why should I collect thousands of steel for a Shikishima when I can alternatively play Satsuma? Why should I even play Ranked?

 

I do not want to highlight that these ships are strong. But it is very, very annoying to collect any ingame currency over quarters (or years) and finally, you face much stronger ships you can get for... tokens?

 

In fact, I wanted to grind Henri for being my next T10 techtree ship. But, I played Condé a couple of times and now I do not want play Henri anymore. Because... why?! And of course, I do not want to spent time on playing T5-T9 ships for finally getting a worse T10 Condé.

 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

It might simply be that the intention is that the players put in more money to hold onto their previous gains, as it were.

 

If that sounds familiar to you, it's the same principle that lead to the 1929 stock market crash.... meaning you either need to bail out early or be ready to throw (lots of) good money after bad.

[MoveZig]

Just now, Trench4nt said:

Why should I play Minotaur when I can be much more effective in the Edgar?

 

Because Mino doesn't require tokens.

 

Just now, Trench4nt said:

Why should I collect thousands of steel for a Shikishima when I can alternatively play Satsuma? Why should I even play Ranked?

 

Much better economy. And Ranked has rewards.

[Siagor]

I sincerely hope these t11s will get some 'League of Their Own" or something, once WG make all of them.

[Trench4nt]

Vor 4 Minuten, MoveZig sagte:

Because Mino doesn't require tokens.

 

Well, I preliminary play for statistics. So I roll the dice and get five to seven superships for a week. And of course, I would prefer Edgar over Mino. Mino is simply unattractive. Yes, you do not get credits. What a big downside....

 

Vor 4 Minuten, MoveZig sagte:

 

Much better economy. And Ranked has rewards.

 

Rewards for what? For grinding an inferior steel ship?

 

[Miragetank90]

21 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

Why should I play Minotaur when I can be much more effective in Edgar? 

Why should I collect thousands of steel for a Shikishima when I can alternatively play Satsuma? Why should I even play Ranked?

 

I do not want to highlight that these ships are strong. But it is very, very annoying to collect any ingame currency over quarters (or years) and finally, you face much stronger ships you can get for... tokens?

 

In fact, I wanted to grind Henri for being my next T10 techtree ship. But, I played Condé a couple of times and now I do not want play Henri anymore. Because... why?! And of course, I do not want to spent time on playing T5-T9 ships for finally getting a worse T10 Condé.

 

 

- Because Edgar will cost you way more to run than Mino. Superships will cost about twice the amount of tier 10s in terms of maintenance.

- Unlike Satsuma, you can spam Shiki games without cratering your credit reserve - See above. Shiki, for example, also remains relevant in a comp setting. Satsuma is not. 

 

Therefore, existing ships are not devalued at all. 

 

- Superships will be obtainable via their tier 10s in their respective lines for 1 XP and 1.5 - 2.5 the cost of buying a tier X ship, so you need to get Henri anyway if you want to play Conde. 

[Hakssor]

I have no interest in the superships after they become TT. They will have terrible economy and you would need captains to be moved out of the current TT ships. Useless in clan battles or a lot of other modes like the upcoming Dirigible Derby. While I enjoyed Satsuma in Ranked for a bit especially because of the reduced dispersion mode, I can play just fine Bourgogne or Ohio.

[Kashuken]

T11 ships was always going to happen.

 

I would rarther that they keep expanding the trees upwards instead of having multiple trees of the same ships, look at WOT and the amount of duplicate tanks they have but may have a different exhast.

 

It is bad enough that in general they are making up ships which were jotted down on napkins or giving shitty gimmicks.

[Captain_Lootbox]

24 minutes ago, Siagor said:

I sincerely hope these t11s will get some 'League of Their Own" or something, once WG make all of them.

They could be in a league with CV and subs. Keep all that lot together and the rest of can enjoy the game better.

[Aragathor]

1 minute ago, Kashuken said:

T11 ships was always going to happen.

Not really. WG just screwed up the monetization and the potential of alternative modes.

They decided that short term gains without a long term target are acceptable. WG's decisions showcase a lack in so many disciplines it's not even funny.

[Stockensprotz]

Their strategy, at least in the long term, might be actually sound (for them).

 

Imagine they would not create additional Tiers and T10 would be end of the line forever. That would massivly limit the amount of ships they can sell in the future. Simply because resonable people do not need that many premiums of the same tier. Even super whales at some point might think abound buying the next T9 premium when they already have 10 or more (2 of which are actually fun).

 

So WG has to do something to increase sales, create a new market if you will. And that will be T10 premiums and access to T11. This will massivly devalue T9 premiums who get T11 matchmaking and incentivize whales to invest in (guaranteed to come) T10 premiums to enjoy the relativly care-free gameplay that you currently have at T9.

 

In order not to hurt the current sales of T9s they will hand out the superships in limited access until they have enough of them to get all lines (or just the most important ones) to T11. They will then release T11 to grind and at the same time T10 premiums will be availiable. And people will fork out cash to be competitive with the new tier-ceiling. Its like the frog in the water thing - who, as urban legend has it, does not jump out if you heat the water slow enough. And the "sunk cost fallacy" will keep the whales (and lets be honstes, everyone else) invested after WG makes the switch.

[Yedwy]

42 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

After the recent Mino-"Upgrade" being released, I actually do not understand what would be the future of those ships?

 

It seems like WG takes the (best) T10 ship of a nation and upgrades it to be even more powerful. Hence, current T10 ships, particularly those for steel, coal, and RP ships get massively devalued. Obviously, adding more of those ships into the game and letting them become usual ships in random matches destroys the whole game economy?! I mean, most of the players grinding for T10?!

Why should I play Minotaur when I can be much more effective in Edgar? 

Why should I collect thousands of steel for a Shikishima when I can alternatively play Satsuma? Why should I even play Ranked?

 

I do not want to highlight that these ships are strong. But it is very, very annoying to collect any ingame currency over quarters (or years) and finally, you face much stronger ships you can get for... tokens?

 

In fact, I wanted to grind Henri for being my next T10 techtree ship. But, I played Condé a couple of times and now I do not want play Henri anymore. Because... why?! And of course, I do not want to spent time on playing T5-T9 ships for finally getting a worse T10 Condé.

I ll explain why… 

 

Long time ago there were 10 tiers and no special permaflages or dragon flags to boost T10 economy, premium ships stoped at T8 and to play T10 all the time one had to either play extremely well, be lucky to get bunch of expendable camos and zulu flags or buy the stuff in shop, everybody else played T1-8 ships to farm creds and then spend them on T9/10 ships…

 

Then a guy in WG marketing realized there is bunch of potatoes that dont like to be in a lower tier ship to gather cash but are unwilling to pay hundreds of euros monthly for resources and are just leaving the game so he came to the brilliant idea of adding a permaflage that earns just that much more and cuts the cost of repair (subsequently wg changed the way repair is charged so its even less of an issue today but never mind that now) to a level at which even the ultimate kevin doing almost zilch in the match will at least break even and all that for 5000 gold, and the T10 (and money) floodgates opened…

 

This however broke both the game economy and the MM at the same time, now everybody and their mother could play T10 indefinitly as long as they paid 15€ or so for the T10 ship but now low tiers get suffocated by overabundance of T10s whose ripple goes all the way down tiers and to make things worse people sit at godzlillions of credits and dont need prem time, ships or god forbid credit packs from the shop so instead of paying back the cost for T10 permaflages and pulling them from the game WG is “reworking” the camo system and adding T11 to be a new credit sink

[Piratenmaedchen]

Vor 41 Minuten, Trench4nt sagte:

But it is very, very annoying to collect any ingame currency over quarters (or years) and finally, you face much stronger ships you can get for... tokens?

Well, WG want to lure more fresh casual playes into the game who neither are patient nor competent enough to ever reach parity with the established players' accumulated resources, so they offer them another short cut to the top tiers.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

The reason for any and all Wargaming decisions is always "because they think it will increase their short-term profit even further."

It is easy to see how every Supership effect you describe, helps do that.

Especially once you realize that the vast majority of their money comes from a tiny, tiny minority of players ("whales") who spend lots and lots of money on this game regardless, as long as there are new things to spend it on. Not from the normal plebs who may drop the odd Euro now and then. And another sizeable fraction comes from euphoric new players who have not yet realized how terrible everything is and how badly they are being squeezed.

IOW retention of long-term enthusiasts is not something WG cares about. At all.

I think some of that is what is called "Churn".

 

 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

3 minutes ago, Piratenmaedchen said:

Well, WG want to lure more fresh casual playes into the game who neither are patient nor competent enough to ever reach parity with the established players' accumulated resources, so they offer them another short cut to the top tiers.

 

Short cuts both ways.

[Camperdown]

Wedgie is continuously looking for ways to boost revenues. For this they keep introducing new stuff which enables them to sell stuff. Unfortunately, this wrecks the game, which becomes increasingly unplayable. However, that does not concern Wedgie, as long as the moneh keeps flowing in. Once the game is so broken players start bailing out, they simply shut it down. Having enjoyed many years of vodka, caviar and women of ill repute.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Trench4nt said:

After the recent Mino-"Upgrade" being released, I actually do not understand what would be the future of those ships?

 

It seems like WG takes the (best) T10 ship of a nation and upgrades it to be even more powerful. Hence, current T10 ships, particularly those for steel, coal, and RP ships get massively devalued. Obviously, adding more of those ships into the game and letting them become usual ships in random matches destroys the whole game economy?! I mean, most of the players grinding for T10?!

Why should I play Minotaur when I can be much more effective in Edgar? 

Why should I collect thousands of steel for a Shikishima when I can alternatively play Satsuma? Why should I even play Ranked?

 

I do not want to highlight that these ships are strong. But it is very, very annoying to collect any ingame currency over quarters (or years) and finally, you face much stronger ships you can get for... tokens?

 

In fact, I wanted to grind Henri for being my next T10 techtree ship. But, I played Condé a couple of times and now I do not want play Henri anymore. Because... why?! And of course, I do not want to spent time on playing T5-T9 ships for finally getting a worse T10 Condé.

 

• the devalue is not really a problem, there will be always new ships and people want to get them
• Superships are a problem when their mechanics do not work well within the game (salvo fire) and WG should be careful not to widen the gap between skilled and less-skilled players further
• Superships are a problem when they just consist of fantasay ships with no historical backround
• Superships are a problem when they are not their own Tier and MM restrictions do not apply - I wonder if we get more credits and XP for damage on Superships now

[DDG_121]

15 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

vast majority of their money comes from a tiny, tiny minority of players

I can't be sure of that. For example I work for a retail company and of course there are high spenders (important customers) who we know really well, track etc, but not most of our gross margin does not come from them. 

It is normal people shop from time to time, spending less. But numbers count.

 

Let's say one player, who spends too much money on the game, spends 1.000 USD mothly.

And monthly prem time is 9.99 USD.

 

It takes only 100 players just buying mothly prem time only to equalize with the player who we consider a high spender.. 

 

If there is any data to back up your claims I'am really eagerly want to see it. 

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 7 Minuten, Zimbiye sagte:

I can't be sure of that. For example I work for a retail company and of course there are high spenders (important customers) who we know really well, track etc, but not most of our gross margin does not come from them.

Retail works differently, at least for "normal" people.

The closest thing you could compare gaming churn to would probably be selling sneakers, or any such kind of fan-targeted cult product.

The underlying mechanism is exploitation of addiction mechanics, the whole dopamine thing.

Edit: plus identity mechanics.

 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

21 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

• the devalue is not really a problem, there will be always new ships and people want to get them
• Superships are a problem when their mechanics do not work well within the game (salvo fire) and WG should be careful not to widen the gap between skilled and less-skilled players further
• Superships are a problem when they just consist of fantasay ships with no historical backround
• Superships are a problem when they are not their own Tier and MM restrictions do not apply - I wonder if we get more credits and XP for damage on Superships now

 

Actually... this reads yes, problem... now that I think of it.

 

Are you sure?

 

[Escaam]

56 minutes ago, Captain_Lootbox said:

They could be in a league with CV and subs. Keep all that lot together and the rest of can enjoy the game better.

Could not agree more; and maybe get permanent SciFi game mode for all those fancy Soviet game improvments WG likes to dream up.

[hellhound666]

the illusion of development while nothing is done to improve the game

total lack of any serious creativity ... just print a new ship and sell it for some new tokens

[Karasu_Browarszky]

21 minutes ago, hellhound666 said:

the illusion of development while nothing is done to improve the game

total lack of any serious creativity ... just print a new ship and sell it for some new tokens

 

That reminded me of the old joke where Brezhnev was on a train that stopped moving. His solution was to draw the curtains and pretend the train was still moving....

[Wulf_Ace]

you are all right BUT

-so far i dont see much of them play super ships

-most of the players are NOT interested in superships

- IF they are going to be expensive to play and maintain not many people will play them

- and so far i dont find them that much OP,maybe that burst fire,but that thing is dumb as hell

-is wargaming going to waste time on ships people wont play? something like subs

 

this game is not going in the right direction...

[CV_SUB_Report_Blacklist]

i find it nice to play super ships , and nice to engage a super ship :D

 

cant wait for next new super ship mino