Premium recommendations: Scharnhorst or Cossack?

[The_Joker_1]

So, as the title suggests: I'm on the fence about these, and have been for a while. I got the doubloons deal for my "birthday", meaning I have about 16K sitting around on my account at the moment. For that money I could buy any of the doubloons ships in the Armory, so I have been thinking about getting one.

 

As far as premium ship variety at the moment I have at least one workable higher tier premium for most nations, with exceptions being IJN and German lines (I do have T-61, but it is only tier 6, so a higher tier one wouldn't be a bad thing). 

 

So, this is where I would like to ask for your suggestions/opinions. I am considering Scharnhorst, because she is simply beautiful, for its historical service and has always seemed like a fun ship to me ever since it was introduced. Cossack, simply because from what I can tell it is an OP DD, and I do tend to lean a little towards playing DD's, often aggressively. I do have a Thunderer though, so I have the commander training and credit grind covered regardless. As for IJN premiums, I don't really see any that are particularly good or enjoyable - but if anyone has an interesting suggestion I might consider it. As a final note - I refuse to play CV's, so no real point in suggesting those. They are also the reason I did not buy Cossack outright - since tier 8 is rather bad for CV appearances I believe, it puts me a little off since Cossack is a cap contesting destroyer. I worry CV's may ruin the experience to some degree. 

[Itwastuesday]

I think Cossack is widely considered great, and almost certainly the better out of the two ships.

 

I have the Scharnhorst, and while I love it, I think it's sorta meh. You can shoot often enough but the guns just aren't any good for basically anything. 

[DreadArchangel]

Got both, the Scharnhorst everytime, the 11 inchers wreck cruisers which should be your main target and the torps are good as well

[Capn_Redwolf]

Cossack is a great dd. IMO it’s better than the lightning due to having a speed boost and longer range torpedos. Bad points are it has bad gun firing angles if you want to get all 8 barrels into play and almost zero AA. However you have many smokes to hide from planes.

 

also consider the Kidd. It’s has great dpm guns and can kill planes. Also great heals so it can be played aggressively.

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

Cossack is excellent, Kidd is perhaps even better due to functioning AA and a heal.

Both have great dpm so you choose either concealment and short smokes or heal, AA and long but fewer smokes.

 

Scharnhorst is not what it once was. I wouldn't recommend it at the moment. At tier 7 almost all battleships overmatch each other, the Scharnhorst doesn't.

 

[Verblonde]

24 minutes ago, The_Joker_1 said:

I am considering Scharnhorst, because she is simply beautiful, for its historical service and has always seemed like a fun ship to me ever since it was introduced. Cossack, simply because from what I can tell it is an OP DD, and I do tend to lean a little towards playing DD's, often aggressively.

Knowing nothing about you, the simple answer is Cossack: I wouldn't say she's OP, but she is very good, assuming you know how to leverage the vision mechanics, and make good use of single fire torps.

 

Going into a little more depth:

• Cossack is great for pretty much any game mode that doesn't heavily feature CVs, and she can even do okay in those (thanks to RN smoke). You've got plenty of dakka for making life unpleasant for other DDs, and your single-fire torps are more than sufficient for dealing with fatties (10 km range is handy too, versus 8 km on Lightning). Put a coal hydro mod on her, and the defensive hydro run-time is entirely ludicrous. You're one of the sneakiest things in your tier spread (5.5 km, versus 5.4 km for Kagero sisters) which is always useful, especially in Randoms where the opposition often won't know what to do about a sneaky opponent.
• Scharn (IMO, but I don't play BBs much against real people) is worthwhile for PvE, especially Narai where she's glorious; she's less useful in PvP though, due to having been powercrept rather in recent years. She's enormous fun with her mix of multiple main guns, secondaries, and torps, but 'fun' with BBs usually means non-optimal if your primary aim is to win.

If you're going to get just one, get Cossack; that said, 'both' is a good answer! <insert that 'both' meme here>

 

33 minutes ago, The_Joker_1 said:

As for IJN premiums, I don't really see any that are particularly good or enjoyable

Harekaze is magnificent if/when she's ever available again: more or less a Kagero, with stock torps, and approx. 2/3 of an Aki's dakka (less dreadful AA too), albeit shorter-ranged, if memory serves. Same sneakiness. If she is ever available again, get her!

 

Harekaze is not to be confused with Harekaze II, which is - by and large - pi$$-poor, although you do get hydro. Basically, buy something else, anything else (well, maybe not Cheshire/Tiger 59, but you get my point)...

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

I have doubloons waiting for the original Harekaze if it ever returns!

[The_Joker_1]

Thank you for the useful responses!

 

29 minutes ago, Capn_Redwolf said:

also consider the Kidd. It’s has great dpm guns and can kill planes. Also great heals so it can be played aggressively.

I completely forgot about Kidd, it does look strong in good hands, and good AA plus def. AA does make here appealing with all those CV's in the game. I'll keep that one in mind!

 

19 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Scharnhorst is not what it once was. I wouldn't recommend it at the moment. At tier 7 almost all battleships overmatch each other, the Scharnhorst doesn't.

Yeah, I am aware of it being powercrept - I have played this game since Closed Beta, but as you can see by the number of battles I have played, I had quite a substantial hiatus after playing for a couple years. Only recently started playing again, and I do not have a great feel yet for what is strong and what isn't. Scharnhorst is also one for the "emotional" value for me, I know she isn't a worldbeater, but looks hilarious in good MM plus her history and looks make up for some of the poor qualities. I do tend to get rather annoyed by dispersion trolling, so perhaps I shouldn't worry too much about getting her based on that and what you and others have been saying in this thread so far.

 

11 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Harekaze is magnificent if/when she's ever available again

I completely forgot about her, but I sure do remember Harekaze II, LOL. I will definitely get her if she does become available again, and given WG's trackrecord in both WoT and WoWs, I'd be surprised if she didn't in some form or another (I just hope not in lootboxes). Thanks for the detail in the first part of your response! I know I didn't give much info on my playing style etc., other than the slight lean toward DD's; this is a pretty accurate representation I think, I am a 59% winrate player and I like to play aggressively. I know how to play DD's, so to me the Cossack looks incredibly appealing, especially as I also really enjoy RN DD's (more so than the US ones - those just seem a little less flexible). Kidd is a great suggestion too. I'll probably sleep on it, but as of now I lean toward getting Cossack and perhaps later on Kidd or Scharnhorst. 

[Ocsimano18]

I have both of them, I prefer playing BBs, but Cossack is the better ship. Scharnhorst is excellent in Narai and co-op. I’m kind of lucky with the Scharnhorst, as I tend to win regardless of how I play. Having two premiums of the same nation is not bad. You can farm the first win bonus every time you play and grind a 21 pointer captain faster. Once you have a 21 pointer, you produce elite captain XP, so you can use it as an universal trainer for all nations. Getting to 21 is though if you’re a new player. Spare your best camos and dragon flags for 200% first win bonus days and stack them to get 60k+ captain XP in a good battle.

 

Also, if you have the Gneisenau, then Scharhorst is quite similar in armor, secondary and torps. The guns are much more weak, but you can fire every 20 secs, so it’s much better against cruisers and DDs. You can have a similar experience with the Prinz Heinrich, which is squishier but has strong guns and hydro.

 

Cossack was the first DD that I enjoyed to play, it’s quite friendly to DD noobs, and OP in hands of an expert. CVs are not a big issue, because you have a lot of short smokes, so you can hide basically anytime. In ranked Kidd is better because T8 ranked has a lot of CVs.

[K82J]

I'd say get the Cossack first, and if you can wait, you can get the Scharny B at Black Friday later for cheaper than normal. Though i'm a bit biased about the Shiny Horse, she's my main Narai ship with Lutjens at the helm

[Verblonde]

34 minutes ago, The_Joker_1 said:

I'll probably sleep on it, but as of now I lean toward getting Cossack and perhaps later on Kidd or Scharnhorst.

That's the order I'd probably go with (although I'm mindful that it's Narai week at the moment), although I do like Scharn...

 

[arttuperkunas]

Scharn would be an ok/good ship if T7 MM wasn't completely awful. Cossack is ok to play at T10 due to dakka and concealment. IMO Scharnhorst is not ok to play in T9.

[Camperdown]

Cossack.

If you worry about CVs, you have the many RN smokes to help you somewhat.

[Yedwy]

Collector wise IDK which I would value higher as both have remarkable carriers, gameplay wise I wouldnt recommend either tbh as both are powercrept…

 

You might wait for Maya if WG doesnt f* her up in the last moment…

[DDG_121]

I would ghet Cossack first, but don't miss out on Scharnhorst either. Both are great.

 

Scharn is superb in operations, also in randoms. And it is great fun to play. 

[MacFergus]

May I suggest looking at the German cruiser Premiums the Weimar is an excellent ship as well as the Mainz in my own view far superior to the Shiny Horse but of course if you knew this already I apologise.

[Undertaker_The_Reaper]

1 hour ago, MacFergus said:

May I suggest looking at the German cruiser Premiums the Weimar is an excellent ship as well as the Mainz in my own view far superior to the Shiny Horse but of course if you knew this already I apologise.

Best choice for bliz now.

[Yedwy]

2 hours ago, Zimbiye said:

Scharn is superb in operations, also in randoms. And it is great fun to play. 

Well the operations are basically Narai as it stands that comes along once what 4/5 weeks? Doubtful if its worth it and TBH the battlecruiser (prinz whatever) is a better ship to play there as well, if we are talking farming credits Ashitaka with kobayashi camo is unbeaten at T7 same as Spee and Spite with those anniversary camos for T6 ops

[tocqueville8]

I'd get the Cossack.

 

The Scharnhorst is good, but this isn't 2017 anymore: performance aside, there are a million German fast battleships/battlecruisers these days, including Pommern and, in the future, GK for coal.

You might also drop a Tirpitz/Brandenburg/Odin/P.E. Friedrich from a container, some day...

[Ronchabale]

As much as I like the Scarn for its historical value nowadays it feels very old and powercrept

If u want to have fun in a german BB/ship at tier 7  I´d reccomend the tech tree Prinz Heinrich

 

 

[asalonen]

15 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

Cossack is ok to play at T10 due to dakka and concealment. IMO Scharnhorst is not ok to play in T9.

This sums it up for me. Cossack is a very good DD that remains relevant in almost any matchmaking. Worst case scenario is a skilled red CV, but it doesn't happen too often. 

 

Scharnhorst can be a lot fun when top tier, but turns to a very different experience when not. 

[Yedwy]

39 minutes ago, asalonen said:

This sums it up for me. Cossack is a very good DD that remains relevant in almost any matchmaking. Worst case scenario is a skilled red CV, but it doesn't happen too often. 

 

Scharnhorst can be a lot fun when top tier, but turns to a very different experience when not. 

In all honesty while I am prob not the “skilled cv” variety I am still able to wreck stuff with them and RN dds I usually dont really bother with unless I really have to as they have godzilion smokes and every time you find the damn thing it ends up with droping blind torps on her (and she gas hydro) or waiting for the fog to clear both of which is s wasted dpm…

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

19 hours ago, The_Joker_1 said:

So, as the title suggests: I'm on the fence about these, and have been for a while. I got the doubloons deal for my "birthday", meaning I have about 16K sitting around on my account at the moment. For that money I could buy any of the doubloons ships in the Armory, so I have been thinking about getting one.

 

As far as premium ship variety at the moment I have at least one workable higher tier premium for most nations, with exceptions being IJN and German lines (I do have T-61, but it is only tier 6, so a higher tier one wouldn't be a bad thing). 

 

So, this is where I would like to ask for your suggestions/opinions. I am considering Scharnhorst, because she is simply beautiful, for its historical service and has always seemed like a fun ship to me ever since it was introduced. Cossack, simply because from what I can tell it is an OP DD, and I do tend to lean a little towards playing DD's, often aggressively. I do have a Thunderer though, so I have the commander training and credit grind covered regardless. As for IJN premiums, I don't really see any that are particularly good or enjoyable - but if anyone has an interesting suggestion I might consider it. As a final note - I refuse to play CV's, so no real point in suggesting those. They are also the reason I did not buy Cossack outright - since tier 8 is rather bad for CV appearances I believe, it puts me a little off since Cossack is a cap contesting destroyer. I worry CV's may ruin the experience to some degree. 

Have both only play Cossack these days. Its a strong DD if you know how to play it. Scharn was very fun a couple of years ago but pretty power crept and not as fun now.

[Panocek]

Cossack, assuming you like cap contesting, DD brawling gameplay. She also uptiers extremely well due to her 5.5km concealment and charm of pointing 8 barrels at someone, while she is also serviceable torpedoboat when you need a little bit of sublety. 

 

Scharnhorst aged poorly with changes game endured over the years and only place where she still works well enough is Narai pve operation.

[arttuperkunas]

IMO the only reason why I would hesitate to recommend Cossack is that it isn't that different from the T8 tech tree RN DD, which is also an amazing ship (I guess kinda like Fanta/Le Terrible). I mean Cossack is I guess better due to having speed boost, more dakka (though slightly worse ballistics) and 10 km fast reloading torps, but Lightning is still a super good ship and is fairly similar in palystyle.