incomparable secondary's

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hi , i just wonder is there a limit for how low damage a battleship secondary's can do ?

im using 4 commander skill points , and a 2 km dd far from me , 24 hits , and only 2 k damage ?

1 shell hit = 100 damage haha

this took 2 salvos from me to kill the dd , 5 hits out from 8 shells ,,, while waiting for main gun to reload it was really more than enough for secondary's to do more better work ..

 

 

how crazy shliffens secondary's is , above acceptable range , and how disappointing incomparable secondary's is , below acceptable range .

[ColonelPete]

It helps to know how HE penetration works. And then you know that 102mm does not cut at Tier X...

[adrianin]

Because one of the strong points of the german battlecruiser line are the secondaries, while incomparable is balanced around his amazing camouflage and strong 508mm guns.

[ollonborre]

Getting a secondary setup on the Incomparable is silly for a number of reasons:

 

- It is too big and unwieldy for close range brawling.

- It has a massive citadel so in combination with point one it can get blapped suprisingly easy.

- Base range is lower than any other tier 10 BB, so even with full build you are outranged by any other BB going for a similar build.

- It has the lowest penetration out of any tier 10 BB. With 17 mm of HE pen you will fail to penetrate any DD hull at tier 10 and can only pen the superstructure.

 

So yeah even if it might be "fun" going for secondaries on the Incomparable is 100% useless.

[tocqueville8]

1 minute ago, BlueMerry said:

im using 4 commander skill points , and a 2 km dd far from me , 24 hits , and only 2 k damage ?

 

Daring hull ---> 19 mm plating

Daring superstructure ---> 13 mm plating

Daring gun turrets ---> 6 mm plating 

 

Incomparable secondaries ---> 102 mm caliber ---> 17 mm penetration (it would be 21 with the IFHE skill)

 

Basically, since the secondaries aim at the waterline, at short range they tend to hit the hull, not the superstructure. So most of those shells would shatter on the Daring's 19 mm side armor.

17 mm penetration isn't enough to damage the superstructure of high tier battleships, either: that's 19 mm as well.

As for cruisers, they're in the 13-16 mm range, so the Incomparable's secondaries should indeed damage that.

 

Since the Incomparable has good turret traverse, even with the reload module in slot #6, you might take IFHE as your 2-point skill instead of Grease the Gears, and you should at least be able to deal decent damage to DDs in these circumstances.

On the other hand, I wouldn't *build* the Incomparable for secondaries: she's fragile and her points are probably better spent on Brisk, as she's very stealthy and will make use of that.

[arczer25]

they are overall crap, though with IFHE they can melt DD's at closer ranges (unless they have more than 19mm of plating)
due to them having 3s reload + British HE alpha their DPM is higher than that of even Ohio or GK, they can't just pen anything really (420RPM and 360.000DPM potential)

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2 hours ago, adrianin said:

Because one of the strong points of the german battlecruiser line are the secondaries, while incomparable is balanced around his amazing camouflage and strong 508mm guns.

the diffrence between shliffen and incomp concealment is 1.5 or 2 km , not that much , both has great concealment , btw 508 mm cant damage schilffen easliy , in other side shliffen can pen incomp on whatever angle 

 

 

 

to be honest  playing against Schlieffen in 13 km or less  is something else , the secondary's doing the most damage xD

 

thats because i try hard to dodge the main shells , but it is impossible to dodge seoncdareis shells . and even secondareis shells pens whatever angle incomp at ,

 

i think we are going out the topic :D

 

 

1 hour ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

Daring hull ---> 19 mm plating

Daring superstructure ---> 13 mm plating

Daring gun turrets ---> 6 mm plating 

 

Incomparable secondaries ---> 102 mm caliber ---> 17 mm penetration (it would be 21 with the IFHE skill)

 

Basically, since the secondaries aim at the waterline, at short range they tend to hit the hull, not the superstructure. So most of those shells would shatter on the Daring's 19 mm side armor.

17 mm penetration isn't enough to damage the superstructure of high tier battleships, either: that's 19 mm as well.

As for cruisers, they're in the 13-16 mm range, so the Incomparable's secondaries should indeed damage that.

 

Since the Incomparable has good turret traverse, even with the reload module in slot #6, you might take IFHE as your 2-point skill instead of Grease the Gears, and you should at least be able to deal decent damage to DDs in these circumstances.

On the other hand, I wouldn't *build* the Incomparable for secondaries: she's fragile and her points are probably better spent on Brisk, as she's very stealthy and will make use of that.

 

its only 1 skill im using for secondary's , and it helps with starting fire on bbs nearby , 

IFHE will kill the fire chance for secondary's , which helps me alot in close fight .

 

the daring i was playing against in the topic did a lot of damage to me , look at the pictures , about 35 k damage from gun and fires in that close fight !!!

i took 7 torps out of 10 from this daring , repaired and healed and he did all that damage ! , i think its strange that 508 mm guns cannot damage small destroyer while a destroyer guns melt this bb . !

still , i believe something wrong here ... its already hard to play against 5 km concealment dds , even when spotted out gunned also :(

 

this all fight started on close range fight on 2 km , no one damaged other before that .

 

[adrianin]

I don't have the ship nor a lot of experience in this game, but incomparable should be played if I'm not mistaken with stealth, catching peoples broadside to unleash massive damage on them. Using it on a close quarters fight with a ship like a schlieffen, which is pretty good in that aspect, is basically asking for trouble, because the armor of this thing is made of paper (the reason why that daring caused you so much damage) and has poor maneuverability.

[ColonelPete]

21 minutes ago, BlueMerry said:

the diffrence between shliffen and incomp concealment is 1.5 or 2 km , not that much , both has great concealment , btw 508 mm cant damage schilffen easliy , in other side shliffen can pen incomp on whatever angle 

 

 

 

to be honest  playing against Schlieffen in 13 km or less  is something else , the secondary's doing the most damage xD

 

thats because i try hard to dodge the main shells , but it is impossible to dodge seoncdareis shells . and even secondareis shells pens whatever angle incomp at ,

 

i think we are going out the topic :D

 

 

 

 

its only 1 skill im using for secondary's , and it helps with starting fire on bbs nearby , 

IFHE will kill the fire chance for secondary's , which helps me alot in close fight .

 

the daring i was playing against in the topic did a lot of damage to me , look at the pictures , about 35 k damage from gun and fires in that close fight !!!

i took 7 torps out of 10 from this daring , repaired and healed and he did all that damage ! , i think its strange that 508 mm guns cannot damage small destroyer while a destroyer guns melt this bb . !

still , i believe something wrong here ... its already hard to play against 5 km concealment dds , even when spotted out gunned also :(

 

this all fight started on close range fight on 2 km , no one damaged other before that .

 

 

 

• 508mm guns have no problem damaging Schliefen
• when you get into Schliefens secondary range with your  Incomparable, you are doing it wrong
• using any secondary skills on Incomparable is a waste of skill points
• 35k damage by fire and HE on Incomparable is no problem for the ship
• you are free load HE with your 508mm guns and blast Daring out of the water
• and no high Tier DD has 5km concealment
• and getting a slow DD as Daring within 2km of a fast ship like Incomparable is an achievement...

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

• 508mm guns have no problem damaging Schliefen
• when you get into Schliefens secondary range with your  Incomparable, you are doing it wrong
• using any secondary skills on Incomparable is a waste of skill points
• 35k damage by fire and HE on Incomparable is no problem for the ship
• you are free load HE with your 508mm guns and blast Daring out of the water
• and no high Tier DD has 5km concealment
• and getting a slow DD as Daring within 2km of a fast ship like Incomparable is an achievement...

will , i play this ship , i get a lot of riccochet on shliffen , even no pen , its hard to damage this ship , i can do a lot of damage on montana or yamato on all angles , but shilffen has sturdier armor . i dont care about what is on paper , i all care about the truth and what i am seeing in battles .

 

can you tell me how you can run away from stealthy shilffens ?

 

12 km concealment , and why you spot him its hard to show him broadside , this ship broadside can be citadeled multiple times each salvo easliy ,

 

and many of T 10 dds has 5 km concealment , i dont say 5.0 , but there is 5.5 and 5.6 and 5.7 i believe ,,,

 

the distance was 2 km because he was behind the island i was near it , he decided to charge me ,

 

secondary's help me a lot starting fires , especially on reversing ships nearby .i tried that and it works not bad .

[adrianin]

2 minutes ago, BlueMerry said:

will , i play this ship , i get a lot of riccochet on shliffen , even no pen , its hard to damage this ship , i can do a lot of damage on montana or yamato on all angles , but shilffen has sturdier armor . i dont care about what is on paper , i all care about the truth and what i am seeing in battles .

 

Well that's strange because schlieffen has weaker armor compared to other battleships. Where are you aiming?

[tocqueville8]

1 hour ago, BlueMerry said:

its only 1 skill im using for secondary's , and it helps with starting fire on bbs nearby , 

 

 

Huh, no.

You're using the 4 point accuracy + reload skill.

[ColonelPete]

34 minutes ago, BlueMerry said:

will , i play this ship , i get a lot of riccochet on shliffen , even no pen , its hard to damage this ship , i can do a lot of damage on montana or yamato on all angles , but shilffen has sturdier armor . i dont care about what is on paper , i all care about the truth and what i am seeing in battles .

 

can you tell me how you can run away from stealthy shilffens ?

 

12 km concealment , and why you spot him its hard to show him broadside , this ship broadside can be citadeled multiple times each salvo easliy ,

 

and many of T 10 dds has 5 km concealment , i dont say 5.0 , but there is 5.5 and 5.6 and 5.7 i believe ,,,

 

the distance was 2 km because he was behind the island i was near it , he decided to charge me ,

 

secondary's help me a lot starting fires , especially on reversing ships nearby .i tried that and it works not bad .

• the truth is that 508mm is very strong and Schliefen is more weakly armored than other BB
• do not move into a position were you can get surprised by a Schliefen in the first place
• but you wrote 5 km...
• then do not move close to an island when it is possible for DD to be there
• the airstrike mod on BB works too, but other stuff works better...

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1 hour ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

Huh, no.

You're using the 4 point accuracy + reload skill.

yeah , in result more fires , 

[Pandafaust]

1 hour ago, adrianin said:

 

Well that's strange because schlieffen has weaker armor compared to other battleships. Where are you aiming?

At the angled belt armour, presumably.

[Ryuuteimaru]

Secondaries are a complete waste of captain points most of the time, they very rarely do anything worth while.

[albin322]

that must be 1 of the worst bb commander setup i have seen specialy for incomparable..

[ColorsOfRainbows]

20 hours ago, BlueMerry said:

hi , i just wonder is there a limit for how low damage a battleship secondary's can do ?

im using 4 commander skill points , and a 2 km dd far from me , 24 hits , and only 2 k damage ?

1 shell hit = 100 damage haha

this took 2 salvos from me to kill the dd , 5 hits out from 8 shells ,,, while waiting for main gun to reload it was really more than enough for secondary's to do more better work ..

 

 

how crazy shliffens secondary's is , above acceptable range , and how disappointing incomparable secondary's is , below acceptable range .

No... Schlieffen is a ship only made for secondaries it is not good in anything else.

Incomparable has the biggest guns with a fast reload 

...

It's not made for secondaries because it's also not tanky enough for that

Incomparable is like 100. Time better then schlieffen xD

[ColorsOfRainbows]

16 hours ago, BlueMerry said:

will , i play this ship , i get a lot of riccochet on shliffen , even no pen , its hard to damage this ship , i can do a lot of damage on montana or yamato on all angles , but shilffen has sturdier armor . i dont care about what is on paper , i all care about the truth and what i am seeing in battles .

 

can you tell me how you can run away from stealthy shilffens ?

 

12 km concealment , and why you spot him its hard to show him broadside , this ship broadside can be citadeled multiple times each salvo easliy ,

 

and many of T 10 dds has 5 km concealment , i dont say 5.0 , but there is 5.5 and 5.6 and 5.7 i believe ,,,

 

the distance was 2 km because he was behind the island i was near it , he decided to charge me ,

 

secondary's help me a lot starting fires , especially on reversing ships nearby .i tried that and it works not bad .

Sry if ur incomparable ricochet on a not tanky schliefen your aim.must be so bad that u should not play a t 10 sniper boat 

Ur guns destroy schliefen a schliefen has no chance vs incomparable

 

[tocqueville8]

17 hours ago, BlueMerry said:

yeah , in result more fires , 

 

If it's fires you want, but also more damage directly from the secondaries, try this setup:

 

 

1) With IFHE, you'll pen all superstructures as well as the hull of most DDs. That's a reasonable investment even if you don't fully spec for secondaries

 

2) Pyrotechnicial mitigates the loss in fire chance

 

3) Just like the Schlieffen, this setup can use the secondaries basically the instant you get spotted (10.61 km concealment, 10.58 km secondary range). Remember though, these secondaries are "meh" at best, compared to the German ones, which penetrate many more platings, including the bow and deck of most cruisers and BBs

 

4) You get your 3rd heal, in case you need to play normally before you commit to a push.

 

I'm not recommending this (then again, I have neither the Incomparable nor the Schlieffen...), but there you go.

 

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21 hours ago, Ryuuteimaru said:

Secondaries are a complete waste of captain points most of the time, they very rarely do anything worth while.

actually it does helped me alot with setting fires on target like i said .

13 hours ago, albin322 said:

that must be 1 of the worst bb commander setup i have seen specialy for incomparable..

i dont know why you are saying that , you can say it is worst for you , it is based on your play style , and it is strange and unbelieveble to tell people that there is only certain setup you can go with a certain ship , every one has his style , and a lot of players just copying what they see in youtube or twitch , anyway , this is my favorite atm , your style is yours and you know what is better for you , you cant force your commander skills on my style , thats wrong  

7 hours ago, ColorsOfRainbows said:

No... Schlieffen is a ship only made for secondaries it is not good in anything else.

Incomparable has the biggest guns with a fast reload 

...

It's not made for secondaries because it's also not tanky enough for that

Incomparable is like 100. Time better then schlieffen xD

it has a gig guns , but a lot of times i got ( non pen - ricochet ) , 

7 hours ago, ColorsOfRainbows said:

Sry if ur incomparable ricochet on a not tanky schliefen your aim.must be so bad that u should not play a t 10 sniper boat 

Ur guns destroy schliefen a schliefen has no chance vs incomparable

 

thanks for your kind reply .

5 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

If it's fires you want, but also more damage directly from the secondaries, try this setup:

 

 

1) With IFHE, you'll pen all superstructures as well as the hull of most DDs. That's a reasonable investment even if you don't fully spec for secondaries

 

2) Pyrotechnicial mitigates the loss in fire chance

 

3) Just like the Schlieffen, this setup can use the secondaries basically the instant you get spotted (10.61 km concealment, 10.58 km secondary range). Remember though, these secondaries are "meh" at best, compared to the German ones, which penetrate many more platings, including the bow and deck of most cruisers and BBs

 

4) You get your 3rd heal, in case you need to play normally before you commit to a push.

 

I'm not recommending this (then again, I have neither the Incomparable nor the Schlieffen...), but there you go.

 

i guess all people here didnt play incomparable and forcing their imagines on my reality ,

 

anyway , i have a unique commander which gives me an additional charge for heal when i get 2 kills , so i decided to use the 4 skills in another thing ,

 

also i didnt say i want my ship to be a monster with secondareis , but man , this damage below all cruiser secondary's maybe ?

 

i like my ship moving with 41 knots anyway . i like my commander skills , but like is said , this secondary's damage is unbelievable 

[tocqueville8]

53 minutes ago, BlueMerry said:

anyway , i have a unique commander which gives me an additional charge for heal when i get 2 kills , so i decided to use the 4 skills in another thing ,

 

I know what you're referring to and fair enough.

 

53 minutes ago, BlueMerry said:

i like my ship moving with 41 knots anyway . i like my commander skills , but like is said , this secondary's damage is unbelievable  

 

Your secondary damage would be perfectly reasonable (maybe 20-30k in a game where you get to use them for a while) if you took the IFHE skill, as it would allow them to penetrate A LOT of armor platings.

 

In your example, 24 hits * 1500 damage * 33% for a regular penetration = 12,000 damage at best (there's always some saturation) instead of 2,440. That's pretty massive when we're talking about self-defense against a DD. The loss in fire chance wouldn't really matter, as DDs don't burn very long or very hard.

 

1500 damage per shell on such small guns is actually excellent: German 128 mm guns also do 1500, and their 150s do 1700.

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3 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

I know what you're referring to and fair enough.

 

 

Your secondary damage would be perfectly reasonable (maybe 20-30k in a game where you get to use them for a while) if you took the IFHE skill, as it would allow them to penetrate A LOT of armor platings.

 

In your example, 24 hits * 1500 damage * 33% for a regular penetration = 12,000 damage at best (there's always some saturation) instead of 2,440. That's pretty massive when we're talking about self-defense against a DD. The loss in fire chance wouldn't really matter, as DDs don't burn very long or very hard.

 

1500 damage per shell on such small guns is actually excellent: German 128 mm guns also do 1500, and their 150s do 1700.

thanks for your reply dear ^_^

after all what you said , i think i should give it a try ...

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:16 PM, tocqueville8 said:

 

 

disappointing for a broadside ohio xD

 

i will keep this setup for a few days to see :D

[tocqueville8]

Just now, BlueMerry said:

 

disappointing for a broadside ohio xD

  

i will keep this setup for a few days to see :D

 

If you get very close the secondaries will hit the hull of the enemy, and they can't penetrate it (unless it's a destroyer).

 

Against a battleship or a cruiser, you want your Incomparable to stay at 7-10 km so that the secondaries hit from a higher trajectory, into the superstructure.