What do you guys think about Flamu's recent Tier X Cruiser rankings?

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

What do you guys think about Flamu's recent Tier X Cruiser rankings?

 

 

 

 

 

Opinions?

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

 

P.S.

He used:

 

"World of Warships Tier List Maker"

 

https://tiermaker.com/create/world-of-warships--166136

 

 

P.P.S.

 

 

[Animalul2012]

Puerto rico is B tankiest t10 cruiser against AP. Gibraltar is plain bad nothing good about it. Zao is C+ or -B good guns,torpedoes,concealment and handling.

Colbert should be D tier. Worcester is B a lot of utility and actually has good practical DPM unlike colbert. Henri 4 goes to D TRASH,BIG,eats tons of damage,poor DPM,poor handling.

Smolensk goes to C or even D why? Cause is only good at stoping BB pushes oh but who needs smolensk when you have Jinan who can spam 40 invisible torpedoes in the water and has HE and smoke as well huh? Stalin goes into D tier, damage pinata, kurfurst handling with kurfurst concealment with minotaur citadel size and guns that cant overmatch and have gone more innacurate along the tiers, burns better than a kurfurst ever did. Petro goes to A if you want a trully [edited] ship in that list then that is Thunderer,z-46,musashi,cesare etc.

[SV_Kompresor]

The quality of this ranking is in line with the usual garbage that he posts.

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, Animalul2012 said:

Puerto rico is B tankiest t10 cruiser against AP. Gibraltar is plain bad nothing good about it. Zao is C+ or -B good guns,torpedoes,concealment and handling.

Colbert should be D tier. Worcester is B a lot of utility and actually has good practical DPM unlike colbert. Henri 4 goes to D TRASH,BIG,eats tons of damage,poor DPM,poor handling.

Smolensk goes to C or even D why? Cause is only good at stoping BB pushes oh but who needs smolensk when you have Jinan who can spam 40 invisible torpedoes in the water and has HE and smoke as well huh? Stalin goes into D tier, damage pinata, kurfurst handling with kurfurst concealment with minotaur citadel size and guns that cant overmatch and have gone more innacurate along the tiers, burns better than a kurfurst ever did. Petro goes to A if you want a trully [edited] ship in that list then that is Thunderer,z-46,musashi,cesare etc.

this

[Itwastuesday]

I'd slam Gouden Leeuw to B, the guns have pretty okay punching power and airstrikes can do great damage.

[tocqueville8]

Of those I have, I'd go with:

 

1) Nevsky, Petro (which I almost never play), Salem, Venezia

2) Colbert, Henri IV, Wooster, Austin, Zao, Hindenburg, Mino, Plymouth, Des Moines, Napoli, Gouden Leeuw
3) Goliath (hasn't clicked with me)

 

My Colbert used to be a disaster, but my numbers went up a lot when I built for DPM and agility.

 

 

 

Honestly, I think they've done a decent job balancing these things 

[tocqueville8]

1 hour ago, Animalul2012 said:

Smolensk goes to C or even D why? Cause is only good at stoping BB pushes oh but who needs smolensk when you have Jinan who can spam 40 invisible torpedoes in the water and has HE and smoke as well huh?

 

Well Jinan is super recent, but Smolensk is a menace when played near caps to support DDs from smoke.

It's just that most of her captains do little but spamming BBs...

[_HomTanks_]

I think same as the video he did for DDs, personal taste and hence useless.

[DDMafiaAssociateMember]

Awful and heavily coloured by his desire to sell Russian Bias as a concept for clicks.

[Hirohito]

3 hours ago, Animalul2012 said:

Smolensk goes to C or even D why? Cause is only good at stoping BB pushes oh but who needs smolensk when you have Jinan who can spam 40 invisible torpedoes in the water and has HE and smoke as well huh?

I play smolensk early on not as a farmer, but as a DD support ship where I stay dark until our DD bumps into the red one.
Smolensk guns are pretty brutal against a DD, due to shell flight times, volume and raw dpm that the Jinan cant match.
Killing DDs like that bumps up the WR.

[tadaMonika]

2 hours ago, who_dares_wins said:

Awful and heavily coloured by his desire to sell Russian Bias as a concept for clicks.

Meanwhile you've never even played any of these ships. If Petro, Smolensk and Stalingrad are not russian bias, then WeeGee cares about player feedback.

 

For me, the list is pretty much in line with my own thoughts. Would rank the Gouden higher, since it can dumpster island campers, but it could be that the ship just doesn't work for him, just like my own, personal Yamato is absolute trash. Would rather play Izumo or, even better Bajie in this Tier 11 ranked season

[SV_Kompresor]

1 hour ago, tadaMonika said:

Meanwhile you've never even played any of these ships. If Petro, Smolensk and Stalingrad are not russian bias, then WeeGee cares about player feedback.

I'm more interested in the fact that you think that russian balance bias is actually still a thing in the first place.

[Verblonde]

4 hours ago, Hirohito said:

I play smolensk early on not as a farmer, but as a DD support ship where I stay dark until our DD bumps into the red one.

Speaking as a DD driver, this is the sort of Smolensk driving that I fear; a well-played Smolensk doing this sort of thing is extraordinarily dangerous.

 

As we know, killing DDs wins games.

 

I'm a big fan of red Smolensks farming BBs, and feel this sort of behaviour should be strongly encouraged - I'd quite like to maintain my newly achieved 'average' status for a little longer. Thank you for your consideration!

[DDMafiaAssociateMember]

1 hour ago, tadaMonika said:

Meanwhile you've never even played any of these ships. If Petro, Smolensk and Stalingrad are not russian bias, then WeeGee cares about player feedback.

 

For me, the list is pretty much in line with my own thoughts. Would rank the Gouden higher, since it can dumpster island campers, but it could be that the ship just doesn't work for him, just like my own, personal Yamato is absolute trash. Would rather play Izumo or, even better Bajie in this Tier 11 ranked season

"Russian bias" was a thing in 2011 WoT. It was maybe a thing in the decision to add RU DDs before the Royal Navy, but it's absolutely not a thing now if you have the least bit of sense.

 

Petro is meta defining in comp but merely good-to-mediocre in randoms. It is entirely dependent on enemy stupidity or mispositioning to do serious damage.

 

Smolensk is incredibly toxic and easy to play, but probably isn't OP anymore post commander rework. I'm least certain on this one because I haven't played it, but then neither have you so I don't know why you brought this up.

 

After multiple nerfs and the commander skill rework Stalingrad is out of the CB meta and nowhere near as good as it used to be. I do not need to own a Stalingrad to tell you how much more vulnerable to fires they are now.

 

Meanwhile, Des Moines has been borderline to actually OP for six years and nobody cares. Salem is almost as good. Yet, nobody cares because they're not Russian. Remember when people complained about Russian bias because of Kremlin turret traverse? Ohio can do the same and nobody cares. Incomparable does the same with larger guns.

 

The point was not to say "Petro weak", or whatever. It isn't weak. The point is that Flamu will say things that blatantly make no sense are contradict other things he says just so he can complain about OP Russian ships, because it gets him clicks.

[Cippalippus]

Flamu says what bad players want to hear. That's pretty much it.

[Trench4nt]

You could add an additional "minus" category.

 

So

A- is Nevski

B- are Plymouth, Mino and Napoli

C- maybe Worcester

 

Actually, I would say that the Dutch cruise liner is C or even B-.

[Gebe_]

I'd put Gouden Leeuw into D, meanwhile Austin and Wooster would go into B. The other rankings seem about right according to my experience, though I haven't played Colbert.

 

And yes, Petro is still OP as hell. I'm so glad that this CB season we had ship restrictions from the get go, made for a great season. DM is nowhere near OP as some are trying to suggest here - it has actual weaknesses, unlike Petro.

[Ocsimano18]

Petro does not deserve a unique category, Nevsky is overrated, Zao is better than Yoshino, Gouden Leeuw is underrated.

Also personally, Hindenburg is A for me, but I know a lot of people cannot make her work.

 

Also stats are biased but Gouden Leeuw cannot be trash tier while being the 3rd best cruiser in the last 28 days, with 5000+ players.

 

 

Also, last 28 day the stats for purple players, still biased, but close:

 

[Prophecy82]

19 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

What do you guys think about Flamu's recent Tier X Cruiser rankings?

 

 

 

 

IIRC he was talking about carry-potential. 

 

I mostly agree with the list....

From a ranked-viewpoint I would change the following: 

 

1. Gouden isnt plain bad, actually no T10 CA/CL deserves this verdict. Its a D imo. 

2. I would rate (Radar) Mino as an A-Tier ship. 

3. Same is true for Moskva 

4. Actually swap Moskva with Balansgrad.

5. Goliath is at best a C.

6. Smolensk is a C imo, too. 

7. Austin is B

[tadaMonika]

12 hours ago, SV_Kompresor said:

I'm more interested in the fact that you think that russian balance bias is actually still a thing in the first place.

Yes "Mr russian flag profile pic" tell me more about how russian ships in this game are not overperforming. I'd like to hear your completely unbiased opinion

 

To the other guy: maybe you forgot, but the fire prevention nerf was a nerf to all "supercruisers" and did not target only the russian ones, so it is irrelevant. While I think that Balansgrad and Petro are both absolutely boring to play, since you have pretty much one playstyle with Balansgrad (sit a*s in to the enemy and kite away), the ship has without a doubt THE best guns in the game by far. Closely followed by Petro which is a ship designed specifically to abuse mechanics that WeeGee programmed themselves into the game. Same with Smolensk ofc which has conveniently just "bad" enough armor to not arm BB guns, while the ship that was added alongside it, the Colbert has just enough, I wonder if there was any favoritism there?

 

Don't even get me started on the stupid fantasy CV's that are conveniently also the strongest in the game with gimmicks that (surprise, surprise) also exploit several game mechanics put in place by the infinite wisdom of wannabe soviets.

(oh also russians have pretty much the only AA that is still relevant lol)

 

[SV_Kompresor]

14 minutes ago, tadaMonika said:

Yes "Mr russian flag profile pic"

Imagine not knowing what the russian flag looks like. (or rather, what it doesn't look like)

 

14 minutes ago, tadaMonika said:

tell me more about how russian ships in this game are not overperforming. I'd like to hear your completely unbiased opinion

Name one soviet ship at tier 5 or above other than petro (and CVs since them being OP is the norm) that is currently overperforming.

 

14 minutes ago, tadaMonika said:

Don't even get me started on the stupid fantasy CV's that are conveniently also the strongest in the game

Actually they're not. Though they are fairly high up.

 

14 minutes ago, tadaMonika said:

(oh also russians have pretty much the only AA that is still relevant lol) 

Well...if you ignore the swedes and the dutch, whose AA is far stronger I guess you could say that.

[tadaMonika]

18 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

Name one soviet ship at tier 5 or above other than petro (and CVs since them being OP is the norm) that is currently overperforming.

 

Well...if you ignore the swedes and the dutch, whose AA is far stronger I guess you could say that.

1. okay. Gremy, Sinop, Chkalov, Kronshtadt, Stalingrad, Admiral Nakhimov and Kremlin tops the tech tree BB line (same with Petro)

 

2. I said pretty much. Smolensk still has the best AA, followed by Balansgrad, Petro and Nevsky

[SV_Kompresor]

8 minutes ago, tadaMonika said:

1. okay. Gremy, Sinop, Chkalov, Kronshtadt, Stalingrad, Admiral Nakhimov and Kremlin tops the tech tree BB line (same with Petro)

 

Gremy: Is that thing still considered OP? I can't even remember the last time I saw one.

Sinop: Fair enough

Chkalov: That's a CV so it doesn't count

Kronshtadt: I'm assuming that's a poor attempt at a joke

Admiral Nakhimov: That's a CV

Kremlin: Strong? yes. Overperforming? No.

 

8 minutes ago, tadaMonika said:

2. I said pretty much. Smolensk still has the best AA, followed by Balansgrad, Petro and Nevsky

Yeah...um...no.

 

Smolensk's aa is mediocre at best.

Stalingrad's AA is dogsheet

Petro's AA is fairly decent I'll give you that, but nowhere near the best.

Same with nevsky.

[Altsak]

From Ocsimano18's lists you seem to have to be unicum for being able to take advantage of the soviet bias.

[SodaBubbles]

Perspective changes everything. I'd rather not fight any of the Russian cheatbotes, but I don't play them because I don't like the bow-in playstyle of Petra and Balansgrad, and Smolensk is toxic and should not be in the game at all. 

It should really be two lists, which ones you'd rather play and which you'd rather not play against. That might result in some vast differences....