What do you guys think about Flamu's recent Tier X DD rankings?

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

What do you guys think about Flamu's recent Tier X DD rankings?

 

 

 

 

 

Opinions?

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

 

P.S.

He used:

 

"World of Warships Tier List Maker"

 

https://tiermaker.com/create/world-of-warships--166136

 

 

P.P.S.

 

 

[Yamashiro42]

I would maybe shift some ships one tier up or down, but generally it seems okay-ish.

 

(for example I dont see Marceau being same level as Smaland, or Hayate being above Elbing...)

[Trench4nt]

Be careful that this is solo play only. 

Elbing, for example, would be in a better position when played in division - or Gearing. He says that in the video.

 

Actually, I do not see Marceau and Ragnar in the OP slot. There are too many situations when they are not as effective as they should. 

But this is my personal opinion. I play Kléber much more often than Marceau, due to the better ballistics and torps. 

And I saw too many matches going lost because Ragnar players spent too much time on fighting enemy ships due to the lag of torpedos.

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

I think its mostly nonsense with some occassional sense.

Like most with flamu tbh.

Elbing bad? As a DD maybe, as a ship its phenomenal. Kleber good? Nah

Where is Vampire II?

How is Hayate better than any of the other ships mentioned?

[Hannibalurg]

Ranked for what? This ranking is pointless as the different ships have strong and weaksides. It is your responsibility as a player to use the different ships in their strongest state. 

 

 

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

What do you guys think about Flamu's recent Tier X DD rankings?

Pretty much agree

[Ocsimano18]

This is a honest list regarding that it represents Flamu’s point of view. Your personnal opinion/results might differ greatly, depending on your playstyle. Especially DDs are a playstyle dependent class.

 

Personally, I prefer the cap contester/DD hunter playstyle. Also I rank Shima as way better than Halland.

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

As for the validity, Tech tree with Hayate, Somers, Smaland, Marceau and Steel ships included ? Oh yeah ... sensationalism at its best ...

[Exocet6951]

I feel that he has always been overly harsh with the z-52. 

 

 

It's a very enjoyable ship that has very little trade-off compared to its advantages. 

Beyond WG's hamfisted approach to boost dpm by increasing HE pen, which is always a stupid band-aid fix, it holds up pretty well despite the years. 

 

 

Jack of all trades might not be the best for top level players who want to extract as much performance from the ship in specific situations, but an average or even above average player can feel extremely confident in a ship which will meet their expectations for any given situation.

 

It trades skill ceiling for more reliability, and I think that's worth a lot more in Randoms for the average player, as you might not be able to get to play your way with a potentially more powerful, but more situational ship like the Kleber. 

[ARE_YOU_HUMAN]

Where is tier 11 kitakaze? It should have been in the S tier. 

Its a go to ship for try harders

 

 

 

Tbh jap gunboat line needs a slap

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

At least at Tier XI, you only get about half as many CV battles.

 

The Tier X DDs are still all hapless CV fodder.

 

I've been permaspotted, in muh Halland, by one and the same FDR plane squad across two full entire Defensive AA cooldowns. Started out at 100% AA, too. And Nakhimov is worse.

 

What else is there to say?

 

Spoiler

(The FDR guy wanted to get his Donskoi to kill me but that guy was apparently too casual.)

 

Apart from that, I'm wondering why he rates Legendary Gearing so highly because in exchange for that marginal amount of extra stealth, you lose so much dpm you might as well use a Shima in the first place and have more torpedos. The only advantage I see would be the 16km Gearing torps that let you attack Russian Bias Radar a bit more effectively, and possibly the better smoke to conceal your team mates. But that comes mainly into play in competitive, and this clan battle season will be the last one for many many patches where there are no CVs. And the torps were mainly a benefit against Stalin because it can't take hydro, but now that there is Petro that always has both, as well as all these hydro BBs, their utility is diminished one way or the other.

[Chaoskraehe]

Nothing. 

 

Also where's Vampire II? 

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

20 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

I think its mostly nonsense with some occassional sense.

Like most with flamu tbh.

This, exactly this. Good player who has ruined his reputation with constant sensationalism and no understanding of the competitive meta.

[Verblonde]

2 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

What do you guys think about Flamu's recent Tier X DD rankings?

The obvious thing that strikes me is that my personal ratings would be wildly different i.e. it depends on who's playing the ships, and how good they are in each one.

 

For example, the two French ones are widely viewed as excellent (not just by Flamu), but - so far - I've really struggled with them against real people; I think it's because I rely too heavily on making maximum use of vision mechanics (i.e. I need to L2P), but for me those two would be some sort of UP (Druid and Ragnar too, at the moment, although I've started making an effort to learn the latter over the weekend).

 

Meanwhile, I'd personally rate Zed at least one tier higher, and possibly I might switch over YY and Elbing. I'd put Vampire II in at about the same level as Daring FWIW, if we're sticking to the fairly unsubtle banding that Flamu used.

 

That said, the bulk - relative to each other - seem there or thereabouts...

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 1 Stunde, RuruushuVuiBuritania sagte:

Good player who has ruined his reputation

Reading you of all people utter concern about other people's reputation has made my day.

[Itwastuesday]

Can't really disagree. Though I find it funny that Kleber is even considered good but never makes an appearance in random battles.

[_HomTanks_]

IMO, it is not possible to make such a list, thus, his list is meaningless. If I’d elaborate more, the DDs have different specs/chars designed for different roles. These roles can be affected by the number of radars, CVs, etc. in a match. For instance, a torpedo dd such as Shima or Somers can and will cause more trouble than a Kleber or Ragnar in a game without CVs and/or Radars. The max performance output  of the DD depends heavily on MM considering same skill level player enters the matches with each DD. 

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

8 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Reading you of all people utter concern about other people's reputation has made my day.

Well, as a historian, I am very interested in the downfall of people who used to have some kind of weight, even if it is in a gaming community. 
Not that I am really concerned, he brought it upon himself when he started chasing clicks instead of facts.
Though I am not actually sure what you are referring to, would you do me the honour of explaining?

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

With his arguments I thought it was pretty spot on. I was a bit surprised about the Druid being a A while Vampire 2 was a B? That wasn't the impression I have gotten from gameplay videos, I thought it was going to be other way around. Also a bit surprised about Marceau as OP. Haven't gotten the ship myself but just seems like insane floaty arcs?! Just seems like Kleber would be 3 times better then Marceau.

 

Looking forward to cruisers and BB videos.

[fumtu]

1 hour ago, Chaoskraehe said:

Also where's Vampire II? 

 

Tool he used does not include V2. Nevertheless he mentioned it in video. 

[Margin_Walker]

1 hour ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

I think its mostly nonsense with some occassional sense.

Like most with flamu tbh.

Elbing bad? As a DD maybe, as a ship its phenomenal. Kleber good? Nah

Where is Vampire II?

How is Hayate better than any of the other ships mentioned?

To be fair, he does actually say that from memory. Said something like it's a great ship, but not great at being a DD. 

[_Lupastro_]

It depends on which hands you put those DDs in...
An example? Marceau is unplayable for me....

It is one of my queens port...

 

A questionable ranking...

[DDMafiaAssociateMember]

Problem is he hasn't included enough tiers (which he said himself in the video). After watching the video and getting the explanations they make much more sense, but if you haven't watched them the Tier list is useless.

[Rockstone_III]

Seems about right...
I would have put Harugumo and Gearing one higher than Shima and Somers... but he knows this game a lot better than I do.
Elbing seems underrated to me. But rating it as a destroyer seems wrong anyway...

[Panocek]

Question is, what is the scope of making such "tierlist". DD tasks - spotting, capping, then Shima is very much up there, as she outspots everyone and outruns most DDs too, only radar DDs + Z52 can deny her concealment, but going in pursuit after running Shima can get you killed when Shima teammates craniums aren't completely void + kiting Shima herself can put quite a dent with her own guns before breaking contact with smoke.

 

Torpboat? Most T10 destroyers can do it, with honorable mentions probably going for Gearing, Shima and Halland.

Open water gunboat? Kleber, though you can make some memes with Daring - she's isn't fast in straight line, but when juking and evading shots she retains speed nicely, sadly past 12km her hitrate against anything other than beached Colorado isn't going to be high. Grozovoi can work too. Dunno about Elbing

Island/smoke gunboat? Then Harugumo, Daring, Gearing, Z52, Elbing.

Consumables/utility? Then Daring, followed by Gearing

 

So "best DD" is case of which traits one favors the most - cap contester will probably prefer Daring/Gearing, maybe Z52 for hydro shenanigans. Spot bot for divmates in Smolensk/BB/whatever most likely will prefer Shima/Gearing/Halland.

Open water asshat will go for different ships.

But I think everyone can agree the most versatile T10 DD out there would be Daring - top notch guns with good range, very viable torpedo package + single launch, smokes on demand and heals as oh  button, long lasting hydro and magic handling ticks pretty much all boxes you'd want from a DD that can win games.