Idear to improve matchmaking!!

[SmokyButtons]

World of warships matchmaker idea 

 

I have for while been thinking on how to improve matchmaking in Wows. 

 

And i think i come up with a way to make.. 

1. a method that preserve the 2 tier spread, for easy match finding, woul even say it might be able to eliminate the need for the special 1 tier at low levels

 

2 Auto balance overpowered and underpowered ships! 

Making it a lot easier for wargaming to make ships, since even if they get ballance just rigth, the system will adjust for it.. 

 

3 will give a real sense of acivement, as you can track on a leader board how good you in each ship, compared to others 

 

4 much funner games, as they will be much more balanced 

 

All if this is per ship.. 

All ship, you have, have individual rating! 

 

Rigth now each ship has a fixed match making value, equal to its tier.. Do tier 7 ship, has match value of 7.. 

What i am suggesting is the this match value should change after each match, going up and down depending on you preformance, Slowly, 

A win should increase it by 0.05, and lose decrease it by 0.05, 

Finishing in top 5 should add 0.05 to 0.01 and bottom 5 - 0.05 to -0.01

Up to a max of +/- 2

 

Further there should be a leader board, that compares you other sailing the ship, where the more you are above 50% the bigger bonys you get.. Lets say, per 1% over 50%, +10% silver free xp and +1% over 75%, +20% free and 2% silver free and lastly over 90% +100% free and 10% silver

 

And nice badges and bragging rights ocf.. 😉

Further more, at the end of match, or existing a match, the game should show the top 2 "star player on each team" bragging rights for doing good is important 😉

 

I strongly believe this would make the much fun.. For everyone.. 

And it should be fairly easy and low cost, to implement for WG

[ColonelPete]

Balancing of ships should be done by the balancing team and not the MM.

MM cannot do that, as it needs to find matches and individual performance can easily change the ship stats.

 

Your proposed system would explode the numbers for good players that have many battles on a ship. No idea how the MM should find a match when a Myoko is rated at 9.

[SmokyButtons]

 

16 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Balancing of ships should be done by the balancing team and not the MM.

MM cannot do that, as it needs to find matches and individual performance can easily change the ship stats.

 

Your proposed system would exploded the numbers for good players that have many battles on a ship. No idea how the MM should find a match when a Myoko is rated at 9.

Getting balance of new ships rigth is realy hard, and helps a lot, so when WG does get balance of ship, it does ruin the game for the owner of the or the ones having to fight it.. I levels out

 

The MM can absolutely do this, it is no different than what is already doing.. Just adjustable "tier" for the ships! 

 

Yes in theory a tier 4 ship can meet a tier 10!!

But in practice, that is all but impossible, 

Thr player in the tier 4 ship, has to have absolutely god like skills, if it is at all possible to reach +2 status, and the tier 10 has to be absolutely abyssal, beyond anything!! 

In that case mayby, but i really can't see that ever happening at all! 

I think when you reach +0.5 thung start to become extremely hard, and -0.5 much easier! 

 As intended 🤔😊

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, SmokyButtons said:

Yes in theory a tier 4 ship can meet a tier 10!!

But in practice, that is all but impossible, 

Nope. An above average player, not even an unicum, would just need a lot battles in that ship.

We have people with thousands on battles on Tier I ships with a very high winrating (for beating up bots and new players) and your suggestion would count them as Tier X ships...

(Hint: and these players are not very good, just dedicated).

 

For example the Black Swan of this player would count as Tier CCXXXIX...

https://wows-numbers.com/player/531914368,Ton07/

[SmokyButtons]

9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Nope. An above average player, not even an unicum, would just need a lot battles in that ship.

We have people with thousands on battles on Tier I ships with a very high winrating (for beating up bots and new players) and your suggestion would count them as Tier X ships...

(Hint: and these players are not very good, just dedicated).

 

For example the Black Swan of this player would count as Tier CCXXXIX...

https://wows-numbers.com/player/531914368,Ton07/

No.. No matter how many battles you have does not matter, only how well you do.. If lose or do badly..og both you going to losee rating.. 

I don't think you have read it or understood it, or both! 

 

So to recap, number battles does not matter.. Only how well you do.. 

Do well you rating goes up, do badly down! 

 

Understand??? 

 

😊

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, SmokyButtons said:

No.. No matter how many battles you have does not matter, only how well you do.. If lose or do badly..og both you going to losee rating.. 

I don't think you have read it or understood it, or both! 

 

So to recap, number battles does not matter.. Only how well you do.. 

Do well you rating goes up, do badly down! 

 

Understand??? 

 

😊

You numbers do not match up. When you get 0.05 for a win and 0.005 for a loss, battle numbers matter a lot.

Do the math!

2 hours ago, SmokyButtons said:

A win should increase it by 0.05, and lose decrease it by 0.005,

 

[SmokyButtons]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

You numbers do not match up. When you get 0.05 for a win and 0.005 for a loss, battle numbers matter a lot.

Do the math!

 

Oh sorry that is typo.. Ment to be the same.. Sorry.. I will correct 

[ColonelPete]

11 minutes ago, SmokyButtons said:

Oh sorry that is typo.. Ment to be the same.. Sorry.. I will correct 

Even with 0.05 on a win and 0.05 on a loss a 58% WR player will gain on average 0.004 points per match (+points for his results). That will give him +2 Tiers after 500 battles and +4 Tiers in a ship after 1000 battles.

There are players that play that many battles in a ship.

A player like me, who plays nearly all ships, and has only few ships with high battle numbers, would be considered to be much weaker despite getting the same results as the player with 500 or 1000 battles in a ship.

[SmokyButtons]

45 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Even with 0.05 on a win and 0.05 on a loss a 58% WR player will gain on average 0.004 points per match (+points for his results). That will give him +2 Tiers after 500 battles and +4 Tiers in a ship after 1000 battles.

There are players that play that many battles in a ship.

A player like me, who plays nearly all ships, and has only few ships with high battle numbers, would be considered to be much weaker despite getting the same results as the player with 500 or 1000 battles in a ship.

While i can understand how can arrive at that conclusion! 

You made a few mistakes, one as his/her matchmaking score rises, he is going face harder opponents! 

That means 2 things.. 

 

1. His/her win rate going to drop, as he/she can not affect the match to same extent, and unless he/she is very very good that going to happen quickly! 

 

2. The place he finish one the team is going to drop quickly to, as he again faces harder opponents, and has more compataint team members 

 

So at some point it is going level out, 

Where the skill of the allows him to maintain a aprox 50% win rate abd middle of pack score on games! 

When that happens, depends on the player, but unless the player is god like in his/her skills, they never reaching +2..

The same goes for the other direction.. 

Bad'er than average is going to level out at sime minus value.. 

 

So no, unless you are total Chad at wows, you never reaching +2.. No matter number of games 😊

[SmokyButtons]

You can actually test it.. 😊

Make a fail division on player in a tier 8,

And the other 2 in a tier 6..

Those 2 in T6 is playing at difficulty still less than having +2 in this system! 

But as close we can get.. 

Try ti play just 5 matches like, use the rules from my suggestion, and see you can maintain you +2 rating! 

 

I well bet good bananas that you can't, not even close! 

 

But you can test it 😊

[ColonelPete]

11 minutes ago, SmokyButtons said:

While i can understand how can arrive at that conclusion! 

You made a few mistakes, one as his/her matchmaking score rises, he is going face harder opponents! 

That means 2 things.. 

 

1. His/her win rate going to drop, as he/she can not affect the match to same extent, and unless he/she is very very good that going to happen quickly! 

 

2. The place he finish one the team is going to drop quickly to, as he again faces harder opponents, and has more compataint team members 

 

So at some point it is going level out, 

Where the skill of the allows him to maintain a aprox 50% win rate abd middle of pack score on games! 

When that happens, depends on the player, but unless the player is god like in his/her skills, they never reaching +2..

The same goes for the other direction.. 

Bad'er than average is going to level out at sime minus value.. 

 

So no, unless you are total Chad at wows, you never reaching +2.. No matter number of games 😊

1. So one gets punished for playing well and rewarded for playing badly. Great, that is exactly what this playerbase needs.
2. How do the teammembers get more competent? From what I see, the majority of players will be higher Tier players that messed up their score.

[SmokyButtons]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

1. So one gets punished for playing well and rewarded for playing badly. Great, that is exactly what this playerbase needs.
2. How do the teammembers get more competent? From what I see, the majority of players will be higher Tier players that messed up their score.

1 No you do not get punish for getting playing, you get matched up to something that Match your skill level! 

What you are saying is equal to you being in turnement, and complaining when reach the final, that you being punish because you have to face a hard opponent!! 

Your statement us absurd, my god sir!! 

 

You are getting rewarded for you skill

1 you get worthy opponents matching your abilities 

2 you can show off you abilities, showing that maintain har +rating, earning braging rigths

3 on top of all that you get bonus to both free ex snd credits

 

Punished, can only imagine seal clubbers and greefers say that 🤨

 

2 as you go you up rating you going to face opponents that is harder, either by having better skills and/or ships! 

So the general compentcy of you opponents increases! 

Don't know how you can misunderstand that! 

[Siagor]

34 minutes ago, SmokyButtons said:

you get matched up to something that Match your skill level!

 

2 you can show off you abilities, showing that maintain har +rating, earning braging rigths

 

 

...and this is where your theory fails.

 

If you match opponents based on their skill level (so far it's WR) all of them will inevitably fall to 48-52% when playing against similarly good players.

 

Not a single one of high-rated players will accept that. No one will brag on "hey, I've dropped from 70% to 51% but against the good players!"

[SmokyButtons]

19 minutes ago, Siagor said:

 

...and this is where your theory fails.

 

If you match opponents based on their skill level (so far it's WR) all of them will inevitably fall to 48-52% when playing against similarly good players.

 

Not a single one of high-rated players will accept that. No one will brag on "hey, I've dropped from 70% to 51% but against the good players!"

Yes you completely right.. Win rate stops being a measure of how good you are.. Totally true! 

 

But i have complete confidence that most, if not all, can figure out that high +rating mens the.. F.... Same.. 

Or if a player is in the top 5% it is same

Ohh wait.. No it is better, because it measures you up against others use the same ship, so it even better reflect you skills, so uf you get high rating, mening that see that you are top 5% using that ship.. It shows much clearer what massive bad as you,

and even more get high combined rating over all you ships!! 

So truly lay claim to being guud! 

 

 

🤔😊👍

 

Would be able to figure that out to?? 

Or you want me draw you diagram? 

 

😉

[Siagor]

3 minutes ago, SmokyButtons said:

 

Or you want me draw you diagram? 

 

 

I'd like a diagram, please.

 

[SmokyButtons]

9 minutes ago, Siagor said:

 

I'd like a diagram, please.

 

Yes ocf.. I like diagrams to.. On my phone so not that good 😂😂

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, SmokyButtons said:

1 No you do not get punish for getting playing, you get matched up to something that Match your skill level! 

What you are saying is equal to you being in turnement, and complaining when reach the final, that you being punish because you have to face a hard opponent!! 

Your statement us absurd, my god sir!! 

 

You are getting rewarded for you skill

1 you get worthy opponents matching your abilities 

2 you can show off you abilities, showing that maintain har +rating, earning braging rigths

3 on top of all that you get bonus to both free ex snd credits

 

Punished, can only imagine seal clubbers and greefers say that 🤨

 

According to your design, players get matched by score, not by skill. A high score can be a bad player in a high Tier ship with few battles or worse, a bad player in a high Tier ship has that many battles that his score is signficantly lower than the ship Tier. When good players have a score much higher than the Tier of their ship and meet bad players high Tiers ships, then the whole Tier spread can be greater than 2.

 

1. You get opponents and teams matched by your score. The majority of players are bad. Skilled or very bad players in new ships completly mess up the system.
2. What good does that do me? Apart from the fact that the numbers do not mean much, unless I played a lot of battles in a single ship.
3. I have 6M Free XP and more Credits than I need and unless I play many battles in a single ship, what I rarely do, the system will not work for me.

1 hour ago, SmokyButtons said:

2 as you go you up rating you going to face opponents that is harder, either by having better skills and/or ships! 

So the general compentcy of you opponents increases!

No, as I explained, you just get uptiered more often, when you play well.

 

And I do not even want to know how the system is supposed to work with scores of 6.45 and how teams are made in what score spread.

 

[SmokyButtons]

To be clear 😊

 

A ship would have 2 ratings, one ship match rating(SMR) from - 2 to +2 and a ship skill rating(SSR) that is % of you placed compared to other using the same ship, wich us the that really is a measure of the players skill 😊

 

[SmokyButtons]

14 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

According to your design, players get matched by score, not by skill. A high score can be a bad player in a high Tier ship with few battles or worse, a bad player in a high Tier ship has that many battles that his score is signficantly lower than the ship Tier. When good players have a score much higher than the Tier of their ship and meet bad players high Tiers ships, then the whole Tier spread can be greater than 2.

 

1. You get opponents and teams matched by your score. The majority of players are bad. Skilled or very bad players in new ships completly mess up the system.
2. What good does that do me? Apart from the fact that the numbers do not mean much, unless I played a lot of battles in a single ship.
3. I have 6M Free XP and more Credits than I need and unless I play many battles in a single ship, what I rarely do, the system will not work for me.

No, as I explained, you just get uptiered more often, when you play well.

 

And I do not even want to know how the system is supposed to work with scores of 6.45 and how teams are made in what score spread.

 

First part, yes in this system you would be able to meet ships with larger spread than one! 

But the ones the higher Tier ships would less skilled players and the low tier ships would be higher skills players! 

Thereby balancing out, giving everyone as fair match as possible! 

 

Yes it would take a sine matches for the ratings to adjust to you skill level! 

But can not see how that can be avoided! 

And much better than now, where player skill is not even considered, abd there for teams can be and often very miss matched! 

 

1, don't see as a big problem, as it should adjust quickly! 

And you have the exact same problem now, just worse as it never adjust! 

 

2 depends on what you call a lot of battles, i would say between 10 to 50 battles to find you level in ship! 

Of course if you going for the maximum rating you can, you need to spend more realy getting good at the specific ship! 

But u see nothing wrong with that? 

Do you? 

 

3 the free xp and credit was just suggested reward! 

But beyond that, as guess where you are in the game, it should be more about challenging you self, and getting bragging rights by having good ship ratings! 

As clearly nit short on resources! 

But the suggest rewards are good motivation for new players to get better, so we all can more fun abd interesting games! 

 

Well that is more down programing as specifics, but not really that hard... A ship with MR if 6.45, would be open for match up with 4 45 to 8.45..

And then you just look how all the ships, currebtly in cue, overlap and when 24 ships do, you put then i a match! 

A bit basic explanation! 

But basically what matchmaker is doing now already! 

Except as itvis now, it has all kinds of extra steps and rules, to try balance matches a little bit.. Like the rule the you be up tied by 2 more that 8 out 20 times! 

All which is more or less baked in the system i am suggesting! 

So the MM is probably going to be simpler and have an easier time making matches! 

 

[albin322]

the best partof this disussion is that wg will not eaven watch this and if they for some reason did, they would type it out and use it as toilet paper!

[SmokyButtons]

19 minutes ago, albin322 said:

the best partof this disussion is that wg will not eaven watch this and if they for some reason did, they would type it out and use it as toilet paper!

Would probably tend to agree.. 

And fear they have other reasons to want to keep the matchmaker as is, and very closed on how it works! 

 

As kinda get feeling that it is bit rigged towards the high spending playerbase, or at least in way to try to manipulate one spendt money 🤔

But don't have any proff, just feels a but like that! 

 

But we as players know how to get WG to listen and change... Mass revolt 😂😂

But kind of sad that is what it takes 🤔

[Asatori]

WG has no interest in improving the MM

 

1) Haveing badly balanced teams goes  both ways, sometimes you are lucky and get carried by unicum players vs a team of mostly below average players. Makes you feel good when you ROFL-stomp

2) Otherway around: makes you want to go again because your team was so bad (it's never the players fault, always the rest of the team)

3) Balanced skill based games will be extra frustrating for below average players - they get very little done and the games last a lot longer while the pace of the game slows down, below average players are cannon fodder every game they enter

4) The only reason to have a balanced skill-based MM would be to increase the competitiveness of the game, the last thing WG wants because this would mean a lot of players will leave because the game is too hard and punishing for them

5) Short games are what WG wants, less time spend in game means more time spend in the armory buying the premium ships that top the scoreboard or that are perceived as OP. 

 

Changes to the MM when it comes to balancing teams will never happen, WG does not want balanced games it hurts their bottomline. 

 

[SmokyButtons]

2 minutes ago, Asatori said:

WG has no interest in improving the MM

 

1) Haveing badly balanced teams goes  both ways, sometimes you are lucky and get carried by unicum players vs a team of mostly below average players. Makes you feel good when you ROFL-stomp

2) Otherway around: makes you want to go again because your team was so bad (it's never the players fault, always the rest of the team)

3) Balanced skill based games will be extra frustrating for below average players - they get very little done and the games last a lot longer while the pace of the game slows down, below average players are cannon fodder every game they enter

4) The only reason to have a balanced skill-based MM would be to increase the competitiveness of the game, the last thing WG wants because this would mean a lot of players will leave because the game is too hard and punishing for them

5) Short games are what WG wants, less time spend in game means more time spend in the armory buying the premium ships that top the scoreboard or that are perceived as OP. 

 

Changes to the MM when it comes to balancing teams will never happen, WG does not want balanced games it hurts their bottomline. 

 

Thank you for your well thought out response 👍

You raise very good points 👍

 

I completely agree the reason that WG wants, an unbalanced crap MM is because it makes them money! 

 

But that fact is also why we can make them change it!! 

If want to that is? 

A big/massive player protest/boykot/walkout will make them change/improve it, as that cost them more than it makes them! 

I and know it works, because we done it before 😊

 

For the argument that the more skilled players are going to ruffle stop the less skilled on, i really doubt that conclusion, as the less skilled players are going to be in better ships that is going conpansate for their lack skill in some part! 

So they are going to have more fun games in general, compared to now! 

And the skilled players are going to have more fun games to, as they will a challenge better suited for their skills! 

 

Longer games, yes i agree with you there!

As teams would much balanced, so we should much less rufflestobs, si longer games! 

🤔 From a player perspective i can't say if that is bad or good rigth now, have to consider that🤔😊

But if want to fix, easy, decrease the number of people per match to 9 per team.. Boom shorter matches.. Plus i think that to would in it self alone make the game more enjoyable for everyone to! 

 

We have to remember that we are WG customers, not thier slaves that have give them money!

Abd we have to be lot better to speak with our wallets, snapping them shut, if WG does not treat us with respect 

[SV_Kompresor]

14 hours ago, SmokyButtons said:

Make a fail division on player in a tier 8,

And the other 2 in a tier 6.. 

I'm guessing you meant tier 7 for one of these.

 

14 minutes ago, SmokyButtons said:

I completely agree the reason that WG wants, an unbalanced crap MM is because it makes them money! 

Unlikely.

 

14 minutes ago, SmokyButtons said:

A big/massive player protest/boykot/walkout will make them change/improve it, as that cost them more than it makes them! 

And almost nobody is willing to do that. Even among the biggest complainers.

 

14 minutes ago, SmokyButtons said:

I and know it works, because we done it before

No we haven't. A bunch of CCs stopped being CCs, but still continue to play the game.

[Bear__Necessities]

You've made a system that is already far more complicated than the needs of a niche arcade game.  And in practice one that would fail hard and is simply too complicated to explain to the casual players that WG actually cater to.