Is the Conqueror a notable improvement over the Lion?

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Hi guys,

 

Currently grinding my way through this line and just wondering if the end product, the Conqueror is a notable improvement over the Lion and addresses some of the Lions "failings"?

 

Here's a few of the Lions snags I'm hoping might be rectified with the Conqueror.

 

1. Floating Citadel and armor made of cheese.

 

Currently I am finding the Lion very vulnerable and frail to play with. It takes lots of damage but has excellent hp recovery which is what I'm guessing is the balance and playstyle aspect which I have adjusted to but the citadel is very high, easily hit and seems easy to hit even when angled a lot of the time. Obviously getting hit in the citadel means you don't recover hp so that doesn't really work for it's party piece which is to recover large amounts of lost hp and so I'm wondering if the Conqueror have improved armor and takes less hits to it citadels and perhaps has better placed citadels, lower etc?

 

2. Crappy gun angles.

 

Ok so I can see that the Conqueror gets an extra 3-gunned turret which means it can potential deal THAT much more damage than the lion which is great but the gun angles on the Lion are atrocious and it's probably the worst I've played so far in regards trying to kite and retreat stern-facing the enemy and try to place all 3 turrets on a target which seems to force a lot of broadside compared to any other BB I've played so far. This obviously sucks all the more when we reflect on it's cheese armor and high citadels... showing more sides is not something that this ship really can afford to do. So are the gun angles and improvement with the Conqueror?

 

Experience so far, albeit a short one.

 

In regards playing the Lion. The damage dealing is good. I've leaned heavily on this ship being a pyromancer and it's really good at that when the ship itself isn't focused since as mentioned it really can't hold up to sustained punishment for very long but here's the thing. While yes, it can and does deal plenty of damage via fires when it has some space to breath and isn't focused, it's the type of damage that BB's and cruisers with repair parties can mostly recover from unlike a BB that shoots mainly AP and hits ships citadels which a target ship cannot recover HP from. So... the damage dealing can read impressive at times but it isn't permanent damage so the enemy team can recover most of that lost damage. I like the switch in playstyle however, wanted something different, I got that and for sure the AP is great against cruisers but it's unlikely I will have that loaded in the guns whenever a cruiser actually makes a mistake and shows me his broadside and certainly isn't going to remain exposed while I reload AP so... ya it's a mixed bag and I don't like how delicate it is and so ya, just hoping you guys will tell me a lot of those failings are rectified with the Conqueror.       

[Yedwy]

No, Conq is just a jacked up Lion, you might want her with a cruiser build if you like burning stuff though

[ColonelPete]

11 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Is the Conqueror a notable improvement over the Lion?

Yes. 15k more HP make the Super Heal work much better.

[Takethatyoubeast]

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Yes. 15k more HP make the Super Heal work much better.

Can’t you basically reprint your shop in Conqueror 

[Yedwy]

2 minutes ago, Takethatyoubeast said:

Can’t you basically reprint your shop in Conqueror 

Its the same way of playing, pi** poor armor, superheal and nuclear he, oh and yes you can, unless its cit damage

[Sir_Sinksalot]

By the way I should also ask. Where do you guys think these two BB's sit in the current meta in regards their order of relevancy and strength?

 

I think they might have been nerfed not that long ago? If so, was the nerf too much, about right or not nerfed enough(which I would find a little hard to believe right now lol).

 

Like I said, they're definitely a BB playstyle all of their own and like no other BB I've played so far which certainly makes them interesting and a fresh way to play the game if you're used to the traditional AP slinging and angled armor BB playstyle. The lion can be really fun at times but also really NOT fun at times lol. As mentioned they maybe something similar to and would best suit players that are adept at playing cruisers or rather, heavy cruisers that just know exactly what island to exploit from behind and all those fine tuned gaming power-plays that come with lots and lots of battle experience, but maybe not because I wouldn't know. A lot of ships, certainly the higher tier ships it will fight would have some form of repair party and can deal with fires relatively quickly so which it can rack up lots of fires and even lots of damage, it's wrong kind of damage if that makes in sense. In other words, it's a lot of damage, but largely recoverable unlike getting smashed in the citadels from a Yamato or some other AP slinger. 

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

By the way I should also ask. Where do you guys think these two BB's sit in the current meta in regards their order of relevancy and strength?

She is the fourth strongest Tier X Tech Tree BB...

[multitronic1]

Conq has better firing angles, more comfortable to play. And quite a bit more range as well. 

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

Both of them are enjoyable, but the Conqueror is a straight up evil ship. Find a good place to kite and shoot and the enemy team is free real estate. Rule, Britannia! indeed.

[Panocek]

There is no meaningful improvement in terms of protection - 406mm main belt on Conq vs 381mm on Lion, so no practical change there, citadel also sticks above waterline and 32mm plating everywhere. Guns are identical too. Where Conqueror gives major improvement are firing arcs - you can sit angled and relatively safe with all 12 barrels blazing, while doing so in Lion it made you vulnerable to pens and possibly citadels, when faced with sufficiently big guns.

 

So in practical terms, Conq brings double the dakka with less risk of taking (citadel) damage when angled correctly compared to Lion, while both ships go back to port when caught broadside.

 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

2 hours ago, RuruushuVuiBuritania said:

Both of them are enjoyable, but the Conqueror is a straight up evil ship. Find a good place to kite and shoot and the enemy team is free real estate. Rule, Britannia! indeed.

 

You are going to retire the ship after 1 battle or am I reading it wrong? 

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

Just now, Sir_Sinksalot said:

 

You are going to retire the ship after 1 battle or am I reading it wrong? 

She was my second Tier X BB, so her stats are sadly already ruined. But I should retire it on account of it being very filthy.

[Zieten]

At least to me Conquerer was more than just a notable improvement. I hated Lion with a passion, did not work for me at all. Conquerer on the other hand is just a stupid ship (in a positive way). 

[Captain_82]

9 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

just wondering if the end product, the Conqueror is a notable improvement over the Lion

 

Personally I would choose the Conqueror over the Lion any day, for one reason alone (you didn`t mention I guess).

The horrendous HE-accuracy (!) on the Lion.

 

When I was playing the Lion back in the day there was a point I just wanted to dump this ship (!)

(still have her in my port though)

 

Have a look at this old 2018-screenshot.

 

As far as I remember, this particular Bismarck was chasing me while I was kiting away - playing defensively.

 

105 shells fired, 21 actual hits (10 on the Bismarck).

That is a 20% hit rate. Just to put this into perspective, my average BB hit rate would be around 40% or better (haven`t checked in some time).

 

This particular round was the extreme of course.

Compared to this piece of [insert insult], Conquerors guns felt (and still feel) like heaven.

 

I can cause so much more consistent HE-damage (and AP-damage if need be) in the Conqueror.

 

In contrast the AP-performance on the Lion was way better than her HE; nevertheless back then I didn`t use AP often (probably because I am still a pyromaniac).

 

[Itwastuesday]

Conq is one of the big reasons I think cruisers are pointless. Why play a HIV when you can have the same dpm in a battleship hull?

[zheng_he14]

In the current Meta, the Conq, is the hard counter to the Scheliffen and Kremlin, historically when the Kremlin was all the rage, there would be some very salty games when a well played Conqueror would just burn them to death at range, quarter pen 420mm HE laughs at the Kremlin's 60mm deck armour, adding insult to injury. The way British BB AP is fused also means it does nasty things to cruisers and can be a nasty surprise to all those that think British BBs never load AP so just sail broadside on!

 

At the time having seen so many reviews and youtube videos lauding the lion, I was really looking forward to it, only to find out when I took it out they'd taken a nerf bat to it, after the reviews and videos were made. Had a bad time with the lion during my grind, at range the shells tend to go a bit all over the place but getting too close is a death sentence, didn't help it was the first line I ground so a bit green at the time! There was a memorable game late on having survived without much damage but needing to contest a cap, a bow in Iowa just destroyed both my front turrets, the ram was thwarted by the fact he had mounted the flag!

 

Should also note that T10 is a much tougher place than T9 so although the Conq is a better ship than the Lion it also faces much tougher opposition, Conqueror games also tend to be a bit boring with the red team spewing abuse if you are doing your thing well! When I picked up the Thunderer pretty much stopped playing the Conqueror, as heal aside its a much better ship (its the rudder shift that makes the difference!)

 

Nowadays I just use the Yoshino if I need to satisfy that long range firebombing playstyle, the spotter plane and meme torpedoes makes it more interesting!

[Ronchabale]

20 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys,

 

Currently grinding my way through this line and just wondering if the end product, the Conqueror is a notable improvement over the Lion and addresses some of the Lions "failings"?

 

Yes, it is a big improvement

[AdmiralVonHacke]

Vor 20 Stunden, ColonelPete sagte:

She is the fourth strongest Tier X Tech Tree BB...

Could you Point out the source and which Data is used to specifY this?

also how the other BBs Rank?

thanks!

[SV_Kompresor]

5 minutes ago, AdmiralVonHacke said:

Could you Point out the source and which Data is used to specifY this?

also how the other BBs Rank?

thanks!

He's going by the generic average over the last few weeks or months. In other words, useless data in this case.

[AdmiralVonHacke]

Question is which generic avarage.

Win Rate?

PR?

Damage Output?

all of These have weaknesses when Seen as standards.

I don‘t say these metrics are completely useless; But I‘m curious if there is another way to figure out the „Strength“ / Competitivness.

 

For example, regarding Player stats, the arithmetic middle of WR is clearly the wrong metric. As better Players Play more, we have few over 50% and many under 50%. Even though it gives quite a help for Orientation, concerning Player Stats it would be useful to use the Median instead of the arithmetic middle…

[Ronchabale]

[ColonelPete]

5 hours ago, AdmiralVonHacke said:

Could you Point out the source and which Data is used to specifY this?

also how the other BBs Rank?

thanks!

You are right, I should have pointed that out.

 

The stats are from https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-h/><i class=

Spoiler

Google Translate:

 

The stats list the results of all counted players in the last 28 days.

 

In the past I used the stats from maplesyrup, but unfortunately the site closed down at the end of last year.

The last data I have for Tier X looked like this:

Spoiler

 

At that time Conqueror performed even better than Vermont.

 

Both data samples clearly show that Conqueror performs quite well.

 

 

 

[Axilian_1]

Yes as a wooden raft with an air rifle  is better than the Lion (from a coop point of view) 

[ColorsOfRainbows]

U have a superheal... Just don't shoe any brpad side or.u get deleted.. ship is still op.as [edited]

[Bulletti90]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:39 PM, multitronic1 said:

Conq has better firing angles, more comfortable to play. And quite a bit more range as well. 

Like, massively better angles. You essentially go from 6 guns to 12 guns since Lion's rear turret is unusable a lot of the time.