Buff for the IJN DDs T9/10(and maybe ZAO)

[General_Alexus]

Everybody who plays rankes knows it, IJN DDs are a joke, yes the players playing them are a part of it, we all know the #17900 Shima meme, but why are the good players not using them? Because there are better alternatives out there, even for the Torp/Stealth memes (looking at you legendary Gearing).

I hate it, that whoever has one (or even multiple) shitty Shimas (or by extension the new joke of a "Supership" that is the T11 Shimaclone-exp Piniata) in his team is screwed from the start.

I stop the rant here and agknowledge that shimas have some strong points, especially cammo that can be nasty if your team has no radar or CV. I might also not be the best IJN DD  Player but that does not invalidate my observations abouve.

 

That beeing said, now what I have in mind for a potential buff that would not break the game (aka torpedosoup):

Make the F3 torps more viable by giving them 9 or even 10 km of range.

With the amount of 10km or even 12km Radar as well as almost everyone running hydro nowadays, I dont think that would be OP, the F3s are high risk, high reward, and great fun. I play them even now just fine with 8km dont get me wrong, but they are not "competetive" because 8km is just too situational and dependent on no planes/radar. 10km range is the standart for most T10 DDs, and thouse DDs have way stealthier torps (on top of every other gimmik) than the 12km shimatorps we have now.

 

10km F3 torps would just give shima the edge in torps it needs to justify the "nationflavor". If 10 is too much, 9km would be at least a nice quality of live improovement (and no I am definately not salty about the amount of times my F3s are running out just a few 100m to short )

 

As F3s are also availiable for Zao, might be a nice choise as well for a little Zao sidegrade-buff.

[Itwastuesday]

The major reason I don't use Shimakaze all that much in ranked is because wtf do you do about Småland?

[Animalul2012]

NO IJN DD are dumb ships anyway and they received countless buffs along the years:reduced torpedo detection,increased gun HE alpha damage,concealment buffs etc. They do not deserve any buffs. Want buffs? Look at Gnevny,fen yang,khabarovsk,z-35,leone,dutch high tier cruisers,z-23,z-31,gaede,hayate,harekaze 2,belfast 43,edinburg,neptune,jutland,hsiengyang so many atrocious ships yet you pick the dumb ones who just sit in the back and spam 15-20 torpedoes so much skill and much help wanted. GO PLAY GNEVNY THEN CRY ABOUT IJN DD BUFFS.

[animalresearch]

You got it wrong. Ranked is a joke. Not these ships. I still play plenty of them. Kitakaze is simply one of the best if not the best T9 DD in the game right now. Yugumo does totally fine in most games except when you've got reload booster equipped and a CV is hounding you. Shima does what it says on the tin, it's a torpboat. That's also probably the reason why it doesn't get used as much because it's hard to outgun things in a Shima and you need to get some caps in in ranked if you want to win. Harugumo is the worst of the 4 in my opinion but still works fine if you know how to use it.
TLDR: There's absolutely nothing wrong with these 4 ships you mentioned. It's ranked and its players that is scuffed.

[JoeSparkx]

No. They are fine as they are. The Ninja torpboats are perfectly capable as they are for the role they fill, they are not meant to take on other DD's but rather area denial, scouting and torpedo alpha strike on large ships. Last thing we need are 10km underwater rockets with 20k+ damage, the Halland's are bad enough as it is to dodge and do a fraction of the damage. Both are very capable, it's not that they are underpowered, but rather the some of the other ships being a little over-powered, Smalands, Ragnars, Marceau/Klebers and Somers are frankly disgusting when played by someone who knows what they are doing. 

 

Kitakaze is frankly Tied with Mogador at the best T9 DD out there, both are capable of utterly murdering other Lolibotes with ease and zipping away before popping up somewhere else and farming you. Harugumo is a little powercrept tbh but not significantly, it is perfectly capable of murdering every other DD quite comfortably and with its frightening DPM makes BB's lives a nightmare.

 

Zao does not need another buff, the damned thing is bad enough as it is, trying to hit one at range is like trying to catch smoke.

[tocqueville8]

32 minutes ago, General_Alexus said:

Everybody who plays rankes knows it, IJN DDs are a joke, yes the players playing them are a part of it, we all know the #17900 Shima meme, but why are the good players not using them? Because there are better alternatives out there, even for the Torp/Stealth memes (looking at you legendary Gearing).

I hate it, that whoever has one (or even multiple) shitty Shimas (or by extension the new joke of a "Supership" that is the T11 Shimaclone-exp Piniata) in his team is screwed from the start.

 

Not every ship has to be strong for strong players, like Smaland or Ragnar or Daring.

 

Bad players play Ranked, too (that's a whole other issue), and the Shima allows them to have a huge impact in some games, getting Dev Strikes and zoning out enemies, at the cost of being inconsistent over a number of games, where something like a Vampire 2 or a Z-52 would be a better pick.

 

A few "stars" ago, in Gold, I had an Epicenter game where our 17900 Shima flanked North, ignoring the cap (the rest of us sailed into it, anyway). People on the team started abusing him in chat, asked red team to downvote him, etc.

He wasn't a good player, but he kept going, got a Dev Strike on the flanking enemy Bourgogne and pushed them South, allowing my Ohio to push more freely, as well. We won in a rolfstomp, 5-0 on ships, and I upvoted him to make up for some of the reports.

 

Ofc, it doesn't always work, but neither does tryharding in the Petro or the Nakhimov.

[doerhoff_damian]

I think a Turret traverse buff would be really helpfull for japanese torpedo dds. So you can atleast use your mediocre firepower while maneuvering

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 40 Minuten, General_Alexus sagte:

or by extension the new joke of a "Supership" that is the T11 Shimaclone-exp Piniata

Yamagiri is acually not that bad thanks to the Hayate Guns combined with the Shima Concealment

[JoeSparkx]

3 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

I think a Turret traverse buff would be really helpfull for japanese torpedo dds. So you can atleast use your mediocre firepower while maneuvering

A common misconception that their gun firepower are bad, The turrets may be slow turning, the guns themselves are mediocre, but the shells they fire hit like a truck. Just a shame many Shima's forget to use them, I've won many a gun duel with them, each shell can hit for around 2k each. kiting away using rear guns is quite doable and suprisingly painful for the recipient. Admittedly not going to win many gun fights but they hit hard.

[Lieut_Gruber]

The IJN torpedo boats are a bit All or Nothing, you can get +100k damage games in them, or 5k damage. Depends a lot on the amount of hydro in the enemy team. Lately there is a lot thanks to KM battle cruiser line.

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 1 Minute, Adamcriz sagte:

Admittedly not going to win many gun fights but they hit hard.

Indeed they hit hard. My only Problem is if an enemy dd surprises you from the other Side you will be dead before the Guns have turned.

[XDukenukemX]

if anything.. shima would benefit from reload booster greatly, no other changes needed.

Yugumo was super fun in T9 ranked with booster, shima is not so much without it....

 

IJN torp boats seems fine to me as with their detection range you can keep most other DDs spotted and just watch them be burned by your teammates.

[Itwastuesday]

Actually if I was to buff the Shimakaze, I'd add a B-hull option that reduced the number of launchers by 1 for another turret. That would be my dream IJN DD. 

[SodaBubbles]

I play Shim and Vamp in Ranked. They both have their strengths, but Vampire lacks the torp power to close out opponents at the end or prevent being run down by bigger ships. Lost a Ranked match the other day when a Salem had my number in Vamp. Had I been in Shim, I would have killed him.

People vastly underestimate Shim's guns.

 

I prefer playing Shim in Ranked, Vamp is fun, but Shim has the capability to devastate opponents with the 12 km torps. In Ranked movements are more predictable and lanes more clogged, the toll of those torps can be high.

[Panocek]

52 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

People vastly underestimate Shim's guns.

This, especially as Yugumo packs the same guns/reload on nimbler and sneakier package that avoids shipfest known as T10

[Bear__Necessities]

The IJN DD's are more than good enough and if you think that T11 one is a joke? Then what planet are you on....

[General_Alexus]

36 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

The IJN DD's are more than good enough and if you think that T11 one is a joke? Then what planet are you on....

The T11 is a joke when you think about the other side getting a super DD too. Never lost a game when my team had a T11 Khaba and the enemy team had a Yamagiri. When Both teams had a Yamagiri (and I obviously wasnt one of them) I considered it a freekill for any T10 DD I play.

[Vbeest]

3 hours ago, Animalul2012 said:

NO IJN DD are dumb ships anyway and they received countless buffs along the years:reduced torpedo detection,increased gun HE alpha damage,concealment buffs etc. They do not deserve any buffs.

Well said. You should have also added something about those OP 20 km torps on the tree's pinnacle - shimakaze.

[Hugh_Ruka]

4 hours ago, Animalul2012 said:

NO IJN DD are dumb ships anyway and they received countless buffs along the years:reduced torpedo detection,increased gun HE alpha damage,concealment buffs etc. They do not deserve any buffs. Want buffs? Look at Gnevny,fen yang,khabarovsk,z-35,leone,dutch high tier cruisers,z-23,z-31,gaede,hayate,harekaze 2,belfast 43,edinburg,neptune,jutland,hsiengyang so many atrocious ships yet you pick the dumb ones who just sit in the back and spam 15-20 torpedoes so much skill and much help wanted. GO PLAY GNEVNY THEN CRY ABOUT IJN DD BUFFS.

yet they still have the worst torpedo detection ...

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, General_Alexus said:

The T11 is a joke when you think about the other side getting a super DD too.

But why? The IJN T11 is better than the Russian one. And anyone who tried to take me in my Yamigiri died Horribly. 

 

And an overall buff to the Tech tree 9 & 10 is not needed and would be way to much. They are strong as they are. Not every ship is suited 100% to every mode or situation. 

[Peroidas]

Hmm I can understand the OP as I am learning to use Yugumo right now and it do not work well. I liked Akatsuki and Kagero, but my Yugumo results are very poor. It seems anyone can outturn my torps and when I spot someone, my team seems to ignore it... But when I get spotted even for a few secs, a third of enemy team seem to focusfire me, and a run through the rain of shells usually ends with 50%+ HP gone. 

You also mention using guns... but when I use guns I give enemy free spot on me for 18sec... that end with the above.

[Altsak]

Wedgie balances by popularity and Shima is popular. No buffs.

[Hirohito]

6 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

The major reason I don't use Shimakaze all that much in ranked is because wtf do you do about Småland? 

Make sure you have support, don't be afraid of dropping wide carpets of torps if you suspect he is close (Småland is really prone to run into unexpected torps), always try to deduce from the minimap where the Småland is, and keep your finger off the smoke button and always be in a position where you are ready to kite away immediately.

Don't get me wrong, I really like eating up Shimas in Småland, but the majority approach it totally wrong.
As a Småland I look for isolated and overextending shimas in obvious locations, that I can gun down before he runs out of radar range.
Don't give a Småland that opportunity.

[Hugh_Ruka]

2 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

But why? The IJN T11 is better than the Russian one. And anyone who tried to take me in my Yamigiri died Horribly. 

 

And an overall buff to the Tech tree 9 & 10 is not needed and would be way to much. They are strong as they are. Not every ship is suited 100% to every mode or situation. 

Well I could imagine a slight turret traverse buff ... but they are no gunboats ...

[Sub_Human]

People are probably just bad at playing them. They are good enough as they are. You do however need to use the guns. And you use the torps at close range (6-8 km). Try a full gunbuild Yugumo, its interesting.