CV DD Balance.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

HI guys,

 

Firstly, what do you guys think of the balance between a CV and DD during battles? In other words, do you think it's currently fair the way things are? And sure, there are different types of CV's and different types of DD's but generally speaking.

 

You see, I am not experienced enough to really make the correct call but from my limited experiences, and as a player that leans towards the sneaky bar steward torpedo boat DD's, I found the experience very frustrating to the point that it was almost unplayable at times.

 

Rather than get into a long textwall about things you guys already know and have undoubtedly highlighted, instead, here is a short proposal and you guys can tell me what you think and why it might be good or bad.

 

IDEA - DD's can ONLY be spotted with attack aircraft and no other aircraft type including deployed fighter squadrons so long as the DD does not fire it's main guns and has it's AA disabled.

 

Do you guys think that would be a fairer approach or too much DD bias? For me, I think it would obviously make life easier for a DD and make it more appealing to play a bit more aggressive for spotting and trying to capture sectors etc if only one type of aircraft can spot DD's. It would also force a CV player to prioritize what they feel is worth more to their team a bit more. That means if a bomber or torpedo bomber flies over a DD the DD remains undetected. BUT, and here's the catch, only so long as the DD disables it's AA guns. Obviously it would stand to reason and balance that if a concealed DD started shooting at another ship from behind an island while aircraft are flying above, or started shooting down aircraft with it's AA, it would get detected. 

 

It's not too uncommon for CV's to send bombers and torpedo bombers down the map initially during a battle but if they do so with the above change they simply wouldn't spot a DD nor would they when using any other aircraft other than attack aircraft. This would create windows of opportunity for a DD to play almost like there was no CV's in some situations but at the same time a CV player still has the option to select attack aircraft if he feels he would prefer to spot and attack a DD whenever he see's fit. It might just create a bit more breathing space for DD's, especially if those deployed fighter squadrons also do not detect DD's unless the DD uses his AA guns or starts shooting his mains. 

[Pandafaust]

It's probably worth waiting to see the effects of the current spotting changes which are being testing first.

[Tanaka_15]

19 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Firstly, what do you guys think of the balance between a CV and DD during battles?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

You have the tools to stay conceiled most of the time. The occasional detection fluke by planes is the same as running into another dd, except you can see the planes coming which makes it possible to adjust your plans accordingly most of the time. I see no need for further DD specific nerfs other then global spotting changes for carriers in general that they seem to be testing, and perhaps the direct hits with skip bombs in general, which is unnecessary. They could have programmed it so the first bounce doesnt detonate on impact to make skip bombers actually skip before they can hit.

 

 

[Camperdown]

Personally I have very few issues with CVs in my DDs. But then I mostly play DDs with many smokes.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

11 minutes ago, Pandafaust said:

It's probably worth waiting to see the effects of the current spotting changes which are being testing first.

 

Ah fair enough, I didn't know that was happening. 

[Vbeest]

33 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

For me, I think it would obviously make life easier for a DD

 

As a DD main, I would much prefer the opposite. DD play has become too easy nowadays.

[WeGreedy]

If CV masterrace wants you dead and you aren't a Daring or similar, you're either dead or your game is ruined.

A class being abled to spot everywhere around the map screws over a class depending heavily on concealment.

[Tanaka_15]

8 minutes ago, Vbeest said:

 

As a DD main, I would much prefer the opposite. DD play has become too easy nowadays.

[Vbeest]

11 hours ago, Tanaka_15 said:

[...]

[Tanaka_15]

Just now, Vbeest said:

 

just for you honey, appreciate these 2 minutes of my time

 

"DD main" yeah :D right :D funny you didnt how much higher your WR on CVs is than o DDs but well :) 

[Vbeest]

1 minute ago, Tanaka_15 said:

"DD main" yeah :D right :D funny you didnt how much higher your WR on CVs is than o DDs but well :) 

wat?

[Tanaka_15]

1 minute ago, Vbeest said:

wat?

:d ehh :D 

 

when you say something like dds are to easy to play with 54% wr total. and 24% your games on CVs i'm interested how much better your numbers are on CVs than on dds. cos i smell a lot of not true from you :) 

 

Well nvm not the place to talk this. 

[El2aZeR]

CVs are literally designed to not be balanced to begin with.

[KillStealBoss]

1 minute ago, Tanaka_15 said:

:d ehh :D 

 

when you say something like dds are to easy to play with 54% wr total. and 24% your games on CVs i'm interested how much better your numbers are on CVs than on dds. cos i smell a lot of not true from you :) 

 

Well nvm not the place to talk this. 

Maybe he's playing much more DDs than in the past. 

My example - I had 57% on BBs and it was reduced to 33%. It's still a lot but I play much more on other classes than in the past. 

[Tanaka_15]

1 minute ago, MacArthur92 said:

Maybe he's playing much more DDs than in the past. 

My example - I had 57% on BBs and it was reduced to 33%. It's still a lot but I play much more on other classes than in the past. 

I just remember him beeing like Cvs are balanced and ok. So im a bit nitpicking. :D 

[Vbeest]

19 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

I just remember him beeing like Cvs are balanced and ok. So im a bit nitpicking. :D 

 

Whenever I involve myself in such discussions, I regret it, so I will just say this once and not post anything more in this thread.

 

Inter-class balance is very tricky, but I enjoyed playing DDs more when the environment was more hostile towards them. It's the class specifics.

 

Moreover, DDs have ridiculously high impact on the battle outcome. Why this might be bad? Very simple, it is often that you simply must hunt and kill enemy DDs, otherwise it's a landslide towards inevitable loss. The problem starts, when you would like to play some ships that are not exactly capable of doing anything against DDs. This effectively makes you need to play specific ships, if you really want to be somehow less dependent on WG's random(TM) MM.

 

EOT for me.

 

 

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

17 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Maybe he's playing much more DDs than in the past. 

My example - I had 57% on BBs and it was reduced to 33%. It's still a lot but I play much more on other classes than in the past. 

He graciously presented a profile that has equal cruiser and dd games played, and number carrier games played as a very close second, and BB games not even that much far behind. He plays everything, which is great. Claiming he is a DD main based on that profile is

 

This is me.  I do not consider myself to be a DD main. I am a light armored vessel player, because most of the cruiser matches are light cruisers. ^^

 

[Padds01]

1 hour ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

HI guys,

 

 

 

IDEA - DD's can ONLY be spotted with attack aircraft and no other aircraft type including deployed fighter squadrons so long as the DD does not fire it's main guns and has it's AA disabled.

 

 

 

As i understand it there finally trying the idea so many of us had years ago of just having planes reveal on the mini map but not in the main view. 

 

would assume your a DD main? what do you think should be counters to dd's? 

 

[Ruthus]

If a CV decides to focus their attention on you, you are are normally in a lot of trouble (spotted and focus fired or just attack plane damaged) or are rendered completely ineffective till they move on. Of course, this means the rest of the team escapes their attention for a while which should (!) mean something. Area denial spotting by fighters does need to go.

 

Personally. the total radar coverage is far more an issue for me (especially ranked). Two or three radar ships per side is pretty much the norm T8 and up, with islands and other ships spotting this often makes capping almost impossible as you get lit up often with no warning.

[Tanaka_15]

11 minutes ago, Vbeest said:

This effectively makes you need to play specific ships, if you really want to be somehow less dependent on WG's random(TM) MM.

Well this is so obvious its hard to even start speaking about it.  In any way still this has nothing to do with cvs beeing totally unbalanced and CAs and DDs being much harder to play than lets say bbs. So yeah still thinking your initial statement that dds are to easy to play is wrong ;) 

[lovelacebeer]

It will be interesting if anything comes from WGs testing of spotting changes, alternatively they could also experiment with just removing spotting from fighters, so then the CV would need to press his attack rather than just fly over and carry on with attacking someone else. 
 

 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

18 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

 

As i understand it there finally trying the idea so many of us had years ago of just having planes reveal on the mini map but not in the main view. 

 

would assume your a DD main? what do you think should be counters to dd's? 

 

 

No I'm more about BB's.

 

I like DD's too but found it a real struggle when a CV was set on focusing me. There wasn't anything I could seemingly do about it. I was playing mainly the Kagero and the Yugumo with TRB consumable. Both have excellent camo but was rendered useless of doing anything meaningful in several battles and sometimes two enemy CV's. 

 

I'm not very experienced with DD's, just know the fundamentals and have good map awareness and learned which cruisers have radar, which DD's have radar, reverse into caps to minimize getting torpedoed by blind fire or if the enemy DD has Radio Location etc but there was nothing I could do about CV focusing in my limited experience of how to deal with them. Those weren't the fastest DD's either, certainly not faster than aircraft so relocating was a lot of downtime of innactivety at crucial moments where my team really needed me to be in the area I was and spot passively in that area... ya, I was out of ideas in the end.

 

What do I think should be counters to DD's? That's a question most including the devs I think can't answer in a meaningful way. I don't have enough experience to answer that because DD's can be a real problem too even more than CV's. With a CV we can see their aircraft so at least know where those aircraft are, the area that's going to be spotted and it's only a temporary spotting since most CV players will either lose those aircraft to AA or feel the urge to switch to another aircraft type so the aircraft will eventually have to return at some point whereas a DD can obviously remain perma-spotting passively. One of the biggest shafting on battle balance is where one team quickly loses their DD's while the other team still has their DD's. That just quickly snowballs into a total rofl stomp most the time as one team has a set of eyes for their island hugging teammates to basically farm the enemy team that's totally blind and not much they can do about it. In fact that has been my experience in a lot of battles, one teams loses their DD's early and that's the end of that battle. It might not even be careless DD play, could be a total lack of support also whereby one teams cruisers shoot the crap out of the brawling DD's where the other teams cruisers scratch their butts and do nothing to help their DD so it's not always fair to simply label it bad DD play.

 

Ya it's a real problem. If there's a solution it would seem not an easy one that's for sure unless perhaps concealment values on DD's were made a consumable so only temporary. In other words, a DD can pop a concealment consumable and get that 6km concealment but after a couple of minutes the consumable stops working and the DD is restored to maybe a 10km detection until it is ready to pop another consumable. Experienced player might have solutions, not me. 

[Vbeest]

19 minutes ago, Europizza said:

He graciously presented a profile that has equal cruiser and dd games played, and number carrier games played as a very close second, and BB games not even that much far behind. He plays everything, which is great. Claiming he is a DD main based on that profile is

 

This is me.  I do not consider myself to be a DD main. I am a light armored vessel player, because most of the cruiser matches are light cruisers. ^^

 

 

 

Okay, I would perhpas better say, this is my favourite class, and by heart I would be a DD main.

 

Alternatively, I might say I identify as a DD main, and if you say otherwise you are committing a hate crime!

Be more inclusive, dude

 

Now, this was my last post - just remember, fighting on forum is plain wrong. Remember who is the real enemy!

They are now preparing the second strike of submarines in order to steal more from our pockets, just as we divide ourselves here...

[KillStealBoss]

21 minutes ago, Europizza said:

He graciously presented a profile that has equal cruiser and dd games played, and number carrier games played as a very close second, and BB games not even that much far behind. He plays everything, which is great. Claiming he is a DD main based on that profile is

 

This is me.  I do not consider myself to be a DD main. I am a light armored vessel player, because most of the cruiser matches are light cruisers. ^^

 

Maybe he is just recently playing more DDs? yeah he surely isn't DD main with 24% battles on DDs