ranked - rewarding loosing/passive play

[stormguard]

please remove the starimmunity for topplayer on loosing team. add an extra star to topplayer on winning team (this should preferably be done by teamvote since highest xp doesnt mean best player, you cant vote for yourself obv). loosing/passive play should never be encouraged. it's totally stupid that the guy who sits at redline all game and doesnt try to make any form of plays or work with the team should be rewarded. i understand that sniping is a thing but it should be done with a brain not just farming dmg.

 

merry shipmas 

[Floofz]

Ive always thought the entire idea of advancing in ranked by winning when the team is completely random is idiotic to me. You cant pick your team. Ive had almost 3k PR in this ranked season yet I only have 46% WR and cant get out of bronze because half the time I lose theres always some backliner that farmed damage and got 1 xp more than me.

The entire ranked system should be heavely overhauled (again), it needs to be more fair and less frustrating.

[Camperdown]

If you would be allowed to enter with divisions, it would not be really reflecting individual capability, would it?

[Nibenay78]

1 minute ago, Camperdown said:

If you would be allowed to enter with divisions, it would not be really reflecting individual capability, would it?

No but it would be more fun to play with a least one friend.

 

Plus the added bonus that you can tell him off when his gameplay sucks.

[lameoll]

1 hour ago, stormguard said:

is should preferably be done by teamvote since highest xp doesnt mean best player, 

mye im not trusting my teammates to vote for best player. 

how manny times i have seen a 20 km shima get complimented in chat for something like  getting  a max range double strike on some potatos sitting broadside in a smoke.

Meanwhile the BB holding off 6 ships  and tanking gets nothing  because he did not get shiny achievement's blasted in the face of the team.

 

the star saving mechanic promotes shitty play sure . But its there and wont change

[Floofz]

Maybe change it so that only the top 3 players on the winning team will get a star and the top 1 player on the losing team will get a star and then it would be impossible to actualy lose a star at all but it would require less time and more stars to rank up. That way you couldnt just grind your way to the top rank you actualy have to be good but its less frustrating.

[_3856794_561538473_]

YOU LET ME GO FROM RANKS..

 

 

 

[tocqueville8]

21 hours ago, stormguard said:

loosing/passive play should never be encouraged. it's totally stupid that the guy who sits at redline all game and doesnt try to make any form of plays or work with the team should be rewarded. i understand that sniping is a thing but it should be done with a brain not just farming dmg.

 

1) The top xp earner of the losing team is often someone who actually tried to win and deserves to keep his star.

 

2) Passive play is often a very sensible option in a game that's essentially a cover-based shooter with ships and islands instead of soldiers and chest-high walls. Ground (well, water...) can be retaken, ships cannot be salvaged: I'd rather my teammates give up a cap but keep their ship than overextend.

 

3) I've seen plenty of Random matches where I thought that backline Yamato on my team was just taking potshots from long-range, but from the xp he earned, and the profile stats, I then realized it was someone who knew very well what he was doing.
I had a Random game the other day when some smarta** on my team asked if I was "having a tea" because my Ibuki was still in our spawn. I was, and I was melting half the enemy team, getting over double the xp of the guy who made the comment. Kiting and firebombing, i.e. passive play, is the only way I could've carried that match.

 

4) Staying at the back typically doesn't give as much xp as playing sensibly around the caps, if anything because it's harder to hit stuff. If the guy who saved his star was the backline sniper, either he actually played decently, or the rest of the team su**ed hard. And even in Ranked, with only 7 players per team, having one player contribute little shouldn't be enough to guarantee a defeat.

[Ronchabale]

19 hours ago, Floofz said:

Ive always thought the entire idea of advancing in ranked by winning when the team is completely random is idiotic to me. You cant pick your team. Ive had almost 3k PR in this ranked season yet I only have 46% WR and cant get out of bronze because half the time I lose theres always some backliner that farmed damage and got 1 xp more than me.

The entire ranked system should be heavely overhauled (again), it needs to be more fair and less frustrating.

One word stands out..

 

[lameoll]

21 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

) The top xp earner of the losing team is often someone who actually tried to win and deserves to keep his star.

actually its not its mostly the player that watched his team die because he sat in the back with his tanky BB taking no damage and then gets fed an enemy dd that yolo rushes him and dies.

 

or its the player that already knew he was gonna lose and found himself the most juicy xp target and rushed him

[Hirohito]

On 12/24/2021 at 1:24 PM, stormguard said:

please remove the starimmunity for topplayer on loosing team. add an extra star to topplayer on winning team (this should preferably be done by teamvote since highest xp doesnt mean best player, you cant vote for yourself obv). loosing/passive play should never be encouraged. it's totally stupid that the guy who sits at redline all game and doesnt try to make any form of plays or work with the team should be rewarded. i understand that sniping is a thing but it should be done with a brain not just farming dmg.

 

merry shipmas 

The problem isnt that someone sits in the back, the problem is that damage gets rewarded too much in this game.
So whether you sit in the back or in the front is usually not that relevant, as long as you farm high amounts of damage.
Capping/tanking/spotting doesnt get rewarded enough, so people farm damage.
As a DD I do get some decent points off of capping, but if I then proceed to spot and zone out enemy DDs, that gets poorly rewarded in total even though that's solid DD gameplay.
If I really want to get some good points, I get that cap and proceed to set as many fires as I possibly can, even if that means I do so from my smoke while everyone is blind as a bat.

The whole game just rewards damage way too much, but I think that WG essentially wants that as that's what's popular.
Just look at the myriad of wows videos on youtube - the audience clearly wants to see 300k damage games with 7 kills, not solid positional play where the guy ends up with 90k.
Imo I even think that WG should remove the whole damage counter, as people clearly play to get that number pushed as high as possible.

[tocqueville8]

Just now, lameoll said:

actually its not its mostly the player that watched his team die because he sat in the back with his tanky BB taking no damage and then gets fed an enemy dd that yolo rushes him and dies.

 

Any proof of that, other than some confirmation bias?

 

Staying at the back means no capping xp, no tanking xp, worse accuracy on the guns, etc.

Sure, one might get an easy kill in garbage time, but it's just not a good strategy to save a star, unless the team is abysmal anyway.

 

No one accuses the top xp earner of the winning teams of having played just for farming damage, in general...but that's inevitably what the top xp earner of the losing team did? Why? How can you be sure? Maybe they both played well but one team was just better than the other.

 

My main problem in Ranked is yoloers. I've seen many players who were reasonably cautious, i.e. they didn't lose their ship for nothing like utter tossers, and once the tactical situation was clear they made a play and carried, coming 1st by xp. Or they lost, but they did all one could.

 

The whole concept sounds like bitterness to me: "we lost, I didn't save my star, therefore I'll blame the only one who did, out of spite".

The top xp earner is often not the best player on the team, but he's rarely the worst, the one that deserves the most blame.

[Hirohito]

2 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

no tanking xp

That XP is at absolute dogsh*t levels, just like spotting is.

[tocqueville8]

You're complaining that 

Just now, Hirohito said:

Capping/tanking/spotting doesnt get rewarded enough, so people farm damage.

 

Yet DDs, which do on average far less damage than BBs and cruisers, routinely end up at or near the top of the scoreboard.

 

Now how can that be?

[Hirohito]

8 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

Yet DDs, which do on average far less damage than BBs and cruisers, routinely end up at or near the top of the scoreboard.

 

Now how can that be?

They get a cap or two, and mostly kill other DDs.
But if you dont get decent damage opportunities, the XP drops off like a rock.
Capping XP seems to work like a modifier, in that it boosts the damage XP by a percentage.
But if you dont have that damage on top of it, capping by itself does very little for your XP.
Had some games where I solocapped two caps but didnt get any real damage opportunities, and the return on that was pretty slim.

[Wulf_Ace]

Purpose of ranked is to make us suffer.

[tsounts]

Unfortunately potential damage is not rewarded at all, that's a major problem.  There could be one or two ships trying to delay an enemy push while his "teammates" are taking shots from further out and a more safe place, in the end the snipers get rewarded but not the ones doing all the hard work.

 

Having battleships sitting back doesn't really benefit one's team since it's the dds and cruisers that will have to do cap contesting, while they're more vulnerable and the battleship plays from safety again.

 

At this point ranked doesn't really mirror someone's potential and skill, also the small number of ships and witnessing 1-2 ships from your team go down in the very first minutes of the match is almost a guarantee you're up for a defeat since usually your team will stop trying to win and will start trying to farm.

[lameoll]

44 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

Any proof of that, other than some confirmation bias?

the proof is me playing ranked and seeing it in a shitton of games 

just like u dont have proof that it often is someone who deserved it.

 

no clue how u would want and go proving that tho .

 

[tocqueville8]

3 minutes ago, lameoll said:

no clue how u would want and go proving that tho .

 

I dunno. Maybe list the last 20 or so Ranked games you had and describe how the top xp earner of the losing team was "mostly the player that watched his team die because he sat in the back with his tanky BB taking no damage", or something like that.

 

I also play Ranked, and the last time I saved a star, it was in a Salem, 1.6k base xp, 134k base dmg, almost all of it to cruisers. I bow-tanked and sank a Napoli, then a Petro, helped our Kremlin against the Montana, then chased down and sunk a Smolensk.

Hey, maybe not even I deserved to save that star, but I'm confident I deserved it more than most of my teammates.

[lameoll]

Just now, tocqueville8 said:

Maybe list the last 20 or so Ranked games you had and describe how the top xp earner of the losing team was "mostly the player that watched his team die because he sat in the back with his tanky BB taking no damage", or something like that.

i wish it was that simple lol but u still would only take my worth for it unless u watched those 20 replays yourself.

 

And still 20 is still a small sample size to go by.

 

But im pretty sure you would see your opinion change if u see for yourself who saves the star in your games and compare it with what he did to others 

 

Its not that hard as u think to farm damage in the wrong positions especially if the enemy is not that good

[tocqueville8]

2 hours ago, lameoll said:

And still 20 is still a small sample size to go by.

 

It's really not when you say that that's mostly what happens.

 

2 hours ago, lameoll said:

i wish it was that simple lol but u still would only take my worth for it unless u watched those 20 replays yourself.

 

I'll take your word for it if you go into some detail, make some effort to convince me.

If you just say "this is mostly what happens", and I have a different experience, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

2 hours ago, lameoll said:

But im pretty sure you would see your opinion change if u see for yourself who saves the star in your games and compare it with what he did to others 

 

I see it for myself every time I play Ranked. Last 7 games (the ones I can see in port), there were a total of 12 BBs on either team, and only 2 saved a star.

 

Last game, Tears of the Desert, Epicenter.

I brought my Smaland to the middle, 2 enemy DDs smoked up in a narrow passage, I radared and we massacred them: they ended up at the bottom of the scoreboard with 420 xp.

Would they have been correct in blaming their Yamato, who saved the star with 670? I don't think so.

That Yamato might've been a bad player (I didn't check), but it's not his fault his DDs sank so quickly and so fruitlessly. At some point, BBs save a star simply because they're tankier and just won't die as easily as some careless DD, so if the match is a steamroll it's probably better to be in a BB.
That doesn't make the steamroll the BB's fault: I'd blame whomever played carelessly because they think they're going to rank out faster if they play as many games as possible as fast as possible, so they try to turn everything into a brawl.

 

Even with the "new" Ranked, where you get rewards for wins and not just for ranks, you see people pushing way too soon, without coordinating in chat, like they're trying to speedrun or something...

[lameoll]

1 hour ago, tocqueville8 said:

Last game, Tears of the Desert, Epicenter.

I brought my Smaland to the middle, 2 enemy DDs smoked up in a narrow passage, I radared and we massacred them: they ended up at the bottom of the scoreboard with 420 xp.

Would they have been correct in blaming their Yamato, who saved the star with 670? I don't think so.

That Yamato might've been a bad player (I didn't check), but it's not his fault his DDs sank so quickly and so fruitlessly. At some point, BBs save a star simply because they're tankier and just won't die as easily as some careless DD, so if the match is a steamroll it's probably better to be in a BB.
That doesn't make the steamroll the BB's fault: I'd blame whomever played carelessly because they think they're going to rank out faster if they play as many games as possible as fast as possible, so they try to turn everything into a brawl.

in that situation sure  but im not only talking about backline farming bb's im talking about every class. 

and sniping is just way  more easy these days with the bb's u have now.

 

but What if in that situation one of those 2 yolo dd's launcher all their torps and got a dev strike on the enemy dd and capped and then died because he was way too aggressive and just got lucky.

then there was a high chance that that bb would not have saved his star and tbh i mostly see those situations even tho that bb might have done nothing wrongand played it correctly. 

 

but i can see you wont be convinced anyways so its just your word against mine atm. and you have a different experience

 

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

On 12/24/2021 at 1:24 PM, stormguard said:

please remove the starimmunity for topplayer on loosing team. add an extra star to topplayer on winning team (this should preferably be done by teamvote since highest xp doesnt mean best player, you cant vote for yourself obv). loosing/passive play should never be encouraged. it's totally stupid that the guy who sits at redline all game and doesnt try to make any form of plays or work with the team should be rewarded. i understand that sniping is a thing but it should be done with a brain not just farming dmg.

 

merry shipmas 

and remover stars gained from last 1/3 of the winning team as well while we are at it ...

[ZeroSkillPureLuck]

On 12/24/2021 at 1:24 PM, stormguard said:

please remove the starimmunity for topplayer on loosing team. add an extra star to topplayer on winning team (this should preferably be done by teamvote since highest xp doesnt mean best player, you cant vote for yourself obv). loosing/passive play should never be encouraged. it's totally stupid that the guy who sits at redline all game and doesnt try to make any form of plays or work with the team should be rewarded. i understand that sniping is a thing but it should be done with a brain not just farming dmg.

 

 

This is of course stupid... when your DD yolo and die in the first minute, everybody would stop making any effort.. people would just leave the game (including me).

Why bother next 10 minutes to lose the star?? 

 

STOP making stupid ideas!

 

It should like in World of Tanks:

Top winning players get stars (1 or two), last players DONT get a star

Top losing players get star, other lose them

 

 

[Hirohito]

10 hours ago, ZeroSkillPureLuck said:

 

This is of course stupid... when your DD yolo and die in the first minute, everybody would stop making any effort.. people would just leave the game (including me).

Why bother next 10 minutes to lose the star?? 

 

STOP making stupid ideas!

 

It should like in World of Tanks:

Top winning players get stars (1 or two), last players DONT get a star

Top losing players get star, other lose them

 

 

I dont think you should be lecturing anyone on stupid ideas, because this most certainly is one.

 

If XP is the only factor deciding who gets a star, that kills off any plays that are made to help secure the team win.

XP is by far the easiest and most consistent to get if you focus on damage.

Why would I as a DD risk capping (mediocre XP reward by itself, and very high risk), if I could instead just spec for ranged gunboating and farm instead?

Why would I ever drop a smoke screen for my cruisers, if that means they get to farm damage, get high XP and maybe push me down from the getting the top XP spot myself?

Why would I bother spotting anything, if that means the cruisers and BBs get more damage (more XP for them) while I dont? (Spotting XP is very low)

 

This is an absolutely idiotic suggestion. Sorry that I am this blunt about it.