What is the ideal battleship design for World of Warships?

[Redwing6891]

Warships get designed for a purpose. Although WoWS is based on historical designs, none of them were designed to fight only for 15 mins in a millpond peppered with islands everywhere. With this in mind, what would be the ideal battleship features for such a scenario?

Range and seakeeping do not matter, and neither does any consideration for the crew as there aren’t any. But what does? The iron triangle of guns, armour and speed still applies.

 

1. Guns

We need guns, and lots of them. As the ships are turning constantly, we either need guns on both sides in casemates, or turrets that can turn quickly and preferably 360 degrees so that we can respond to the changing situation. We also need guns that fire quickly, say three salvoes a minute. The aiming system is rudimentary, so we need to be able to correct errors pronto and be ready to try again. Gun calibre matters less than muzzle velocity and trajectory to achieve a reliable DPM. We also want lots of secondary guns and lots of AA, the longer ranged the better.

 

2. Armour

The biggest damage is done to the citadel, while the remainder of the ship only serves as target practice for HE spammers. So, we go for an all or nothing scheme, preferably with a turtleback, or even a submerged citadel. Water is as good as steel in that respect. We also need to beware of the torpedo soup, so compartmentalization and pseudo-armour (like torpedo bulges or coal bunkers) are very desirable.

 

3. Speed

We want our ship to be fast, as more speed combined with the right hull form allows higher manoeuvrability. So, definitely above 20 kn and the closer we can edge to 30 kn, the better but that should be enough. What’s more important is a quick rudder shift time and a small turning circle.

 

I give you two low tier examples of designs that suit this game: The USS St Louis (which isn’t even a battleship, I know) as an example of the casemate design, and the SMS Nassau (for the turreted option). What they both lack is speed, which means investing into a few signals, or we have to go a few tiers higher up. The SMS Koenig is a good illustration of a reasonable compromise. Honourable mention for the Conte di Cavour (which is sadly too slow both in firing rate and speed) and the Kongo (which is fast but has too few guns).

 

What is your opinion of the best battleship design for WoWS?

[ColonelPete]

That depends on the Tier.

Outer plating is very important.

[DDMafiaAssociateMember]

The ideal BB for WoWS would have a low profile, underwater citadel, large and fast turning guns, high top speed and a dispersed armour scheme to deter HE spam. Operating range, seaworthiness and belt armour could be sacrificed to achieve this.

 

 

Alternatively I could just say "Kremlin"

[Animalul2012]

It already exists it is called thunderer. Broken guns that just dont care that you show broadside or angle and an improved heal that heals 33% of citadel damage, meanwhile gouden leew and napoli have 10% GG. Did I mention the broken fire chance,rudder shift better than a destroyer and very low concealment for a BB. Weak armor? Yeah 406 citadel armor like everyone else and 32 mm armor all around so only mr yamatos will overmatch while the rest will ricochet all day, meanwhile slava has 25mm bow and a 350-370 citadel now that can be called weak armor but not thunderer. Most broken ship in the entire game all the others have some form of counters but thunderer? Nah unless you are a CV, SUB or torpedo destroyer(wow broken classes and wall of skill vs a BB without radar who would have guessed.) you might as well exit to port cause you either are going to have a fast dead via AP or a slow and painful one via HE and constant fires with every salvo. But dont worry I heard WG is going to solve the problem by removing stalingrad radar and giving it kronshtadt guns.

[Ronchabale]

Petropavlosk ?

[Yedwy]

3 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Petropavlosk ?

This

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

This

Not quite, missing guns with actual overmatch capabilities. Stalingrad would be close, but raised citadel and GLORIOUS (lack of) camouflage doesn't help.

 

Also Petro/Stalin are munched alive with SAP or CB grade HE shells, so more armor would be needed

[Yedwy]

23 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Not quite, missing guns with actual overmatch capabilities. Stalingrad would be close, but raised citadel and GLORIOUS (lack of) camouflage doesn't help.

 

Also Petro/Stalin are munched alive with SAP or CB grade HE shells, so more armor would be needed

Well there are several BBs in high tiers that dont overmatch same tier CAs let alone other BBs so overmatch as such is hardly a criteria, also Stalingrad doesn’t overmatch anything important either…

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

Fast, manouvrable, fast loading and fast turning accurate guns, high pen HE shells,  fast medium pen AP shells, effective but medium weight armor scheme, small, massive AA, Hydro, torps, radar, 12km high pen secondairies, speedboost, reloadboost and crazy pretty or butt ugly.

 

Yeah, and I only get to have it. ^^

 

Edit: I forgot the smokescreen 

[Redwing6891]

3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

That depends on the Tier.

Outer plating is very important.

Of course it does - or the time period which the tier represents - and possibly the game mode, too.

 

However, would you care to explain why outer plating is very important? It doesn't protect anything, like people or circuits, and to make use of overpenetration mechanics it might as well be cellophane.

[Wulf_Ace]

basicly every russian fantasy ship?

[ColonelPete]

53 minutes ago, Redwing6891 said:

Of course it does - or the time period which the tier represents - and possibly the game mode, too.

 

However, would you care to explain why outer plating is very important? It doesn't protect anything, like people or circuits, and to make use of overpenetration mechanics it might as well be cellophane.

Outer plating can deflect AP shells when angled and shatter HE shells.

[vaapad_master]

Thunderkek.

[ColonelPete]

4 hours ago, Animalul2012 said:

It already exists it is called thunderer. Broken guns that just dont care that you show broadside or angle and an improved heal that heals 33% of citadel damage, meanwhile gouden leew and napoli have 10% GG. Did I mention the broken fire chance,rudder shift better than a destroyer and very low concealment for a BB. Weak armor? Yeah 406 citadel armor like everyone else and 32 mm armor all around so only mr yamatos will overmatch while the rest will ricochet all day, meanwhile slava has 25mm bow and a 350-370 citadel now that can be called weak armor but not thunderer. Most broken ship in the entire game all the others have some form of counters but thunderer? Nah unless you are a CV, SUB or torpedo destroyer(wow broken classes and wall of skill vs a BB without radar who would have guessed.) you might as well exit to port cause you either are going to have a fast dead via AP or a slow and painful one via HE and constant fires with every salvo. But dont worry I heard WG is going to solve the problem by removing stalingrad radar and giving it kronshtadt guns.

 

58 minutes ago, Toni112007 said:

Thunderkek.

Thunderer would need 3mm more shell diameter and better plating.

[Redwing6891]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

Outer plating can deflect AP shells when angled and shatter HE shells.

But wouldn't it be better for AP shells just to pass through?

 

I have to admit I haven't paid that close attention when under an HE barrage but I have never seen an HE shell shatter. If they hit, they do damage. 

 

Anyway, to bring it back to the topic: rather than an all or nothing armour scheme, would you then advocate a distributed armour scheme?  

[ColonelPete]

Just now, Redwing6891 said:

But wouldn't it be better for AP shells just to pass through?

 

I have to admit I haven't paid that close attention when under an HE barrage but I have never seen an HE shell shatter. If they hit, they do damage. 

 

Anyway, to bring it back to the topic: rather than an all or nothing armour scheme, would you then advocate a distributed armour scheme?  

Overpens still do damage. Deflected shells do 0 damage. It does not get better than that.

I suggest you familarize yourself with the HE mechanics, as this can influence your skill selection for your captains, the way you play your ships and the results you get. Just spamming HE, without knowing what you are doing, gives you worse results.

 

Yes, a distributed armor scheme would be better in this game. There is a reason that ships with a complete ramming/icebreaker bow are especially powerful in this game.

[totally_potato]

5 hours ago, Redwing6891 said:

Warships get designed for a purpose. Although WoWS is based on historical designs, none of them were designed to fight only for 15 mins in a millpond peppered with islands everywhere. With this in mind, what would be the ideal battleship features for such a scenario?

Range and seakeeping do not matter, and neither does any consideration for the crew as there aren’t any. But what does? The iron triangle of guns, armour and speed still applies.

 

1. Guns

We need guns, and lots of them. As the ships are turning constantly, we either need guns on both sides in casemates, or turrets that can turn quickly and preferably 360 degrees so that we can respond to the changing situation. We also need guns that fire quickly, say three salvoes a minute. The aiming system is rudimentary, so we need to be able to correct errors pronto and be ready to try again. Gun calibre matters less than muzzle velocity and trajectory to achieve a reliable DPM. We also want lots of secondary guns and lots of AA, the longer ranged the better.

 

2. Armour

The biggest damage is done to the citadel, while the remainder of the ship only serves as target practice for HE spammers. So, we go for an all or nothing scheme, preferably with a turtleback, or even a submerged citadel. Water is as good as steel in that respect. We also need to beware of the torpedo soup, so compartmentalization and pseudo-armour (like torpedo bulges or coal bunkers) are very desirable.

 

3. Speed

We want our ship to be fast, as more speed combined with the right hull form allows higher manoeuvrability. So, definitely above 20 kn and the closer we can edge to 30 kn, the better but that should be enough. What’s more important is a quick rudder shift time and a small turning circle.

 

I give you two low tier examples of designs that suit this game: The USS St Louis (which isn’t even a battleship, I know) as an example of the casemate design, and the SMS Nassau (for the turreted option). What they both lack is speed, which means investing into a few signals, or we have to go a few tiers higher up. The SMS Koenig is a good illustration of a reasonable compromise. Honourable mention for the Conte di Cavour (which is sadly too slow both in firing rate and speed) and the Kongo (which is fast but has too few guns).

 

What is your opinion of the best battleship design for WoWS?

Ideal BB is H-45 with soviet help

 

32 knots speed

Impenetrable armor and 500k HP with only 10 sec fires

800mm guns that reload in 20 seconds base and have Elbing dispersion

Soviet flag on it

6x5 torpedoes, 3 sets on each side 

10km base concealment

10km hydro

2 Hindenburgs worth of secondary fire power on each side paired with 100 128mm guns on each side

Legendary commander Hitlin (basically hitler but with stalin outfit and moustache, and has access to all commander talents in the game)

 

 

 

Idea BB drafted out. Rest if upto you WG

 

 

[Panocek]

4 hours ago, Yedwy said:

also Stalingrad doesn’t overmatch anything important either…

BB superstructures. Allows you to farm battleships with AP, bonus points when you knock their turret or two when doing so

[Redwing6891]

Thanks to all who have so far engaged with this topic, I really appreciate your input.

 

Would you also have views on BB designs which are a bit lower tier than IX or X? These high tier ships are overwhelmingly paper designs and well, feel a bit like science fiction, no offence.

 

I would be keen to hear your views on BBs that actually existed in real life. Any thoughts?

[Miscommunication_dept]

One with no superstructure.

[Redwing6891]

13 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

One with no superstructure.

Minimalist superstructure was one of the original design philosophies of the all-big-gun battleship as outlined by Cuniberti. In-game examples are the low tier German and Italian ships. Not to forget Imperator Nikolay, of course, also featuring a ram bow for @ColonelPete. And yes, she does well in the game. ;)

[Northern_Nightowl]

Vor 8 Stunden, who_dares_wins sagte:

The ideal BB for WoWS would have a low profile, underwater citadel, large and fast turning guns, high top speed and a dispersed armour scheme to deter HE spam. Operating range, seaworthiness and belt armour could be sacrificed to achieve this.

Build a USS Monitor with gas turbine propulsion (contemporary to late designs in WoWS), bow thrusters and something akin to a 8"/55 caliber Mark 71 gun in a double turret and I think you're done.

 

Regards, Nightowl

[JoeSparkx]

A Kremlin with 460mm guns and no limit on its DCP.

 

I am sure WeeGee can find a napkin with the blueprints in St Petersburg Naval Museum. 

[Camperdown]

Overpen mechanics in WoWs are just pathetic. 

Irl ships were built of shipbuilding steel, about  5/8" or 15 mm. That's what's needed for strength. It does not stop anything. HE blows large holes in it. 

Then you had protective plating. 1 to about 3" over said 5/8" plating. With medium or large guns you could fire CP or SAP at it, which would penetrate and explode inside with a good time fuse. And then you have APC for thick armour.

Overpen mechanics in WoWs are a completely artificial nonsense having nothing to do with reality. It is designed to give high tier ship an artificial advantage over low tier ships. Why? High tier ships already have huge advantages in guns and armour. It is only intended to frustrate you into buying high tier premiums. Typical WG scummy trashing the game for commercial purposes 

[Panocek]

25 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

Overpen mechanics in WoWs are just pathetic. 

Irl ships were built of shipbuilding steel, about  5/8" or 15 mm. That's what's needed for strength. It does not stop anything. HE blows large holes in it. 

Then you had protective plating. 1 to about 3" over said 5/8" plating. With medium or large guns you could fire CP or SAP at it, which would penetrate and explode inside with a good time fuse. And then you have APC for thick armour.

Overpen mechanics in WoWs are a completely artificial nonsense having nothing to do with reality. It is designed to give high tier ship an artificial advantage over low tier ships. Why? High tier ships already have huge advantages in guns and armour. It is only intended to frustrate you into buying high tier premiums. Typical WG scummy trashing the game for commercial purposes 

Overmatch also came from World of Tanks with its famous "shell must be bigger than x3 plating thickness". Thus post war 120mm high velocity anti tank gun would ricochet from 40mm turret roof, but artillery piece of russian variety, shoved into a tank turret and yeeting 122mm AP potatoes will go through said plating any time every time