LETS TALK SUBS AND TIER 10

[punchmynuggets]

Having just played and lost a tier 10 game in a line ship, I felt compelled to write about the unfairness of matchmaking and the introduction of submarines into tier 10 random battles.

I am not the greatest of players and I am sure by now, some of you are reaching for the WoWS stats to check. Matchmaking does not usually worry me, but with the introduction of subs

it does now. 

Having had to grind my way up to Tier 10 and learn the mechanics and skills involved in higher tier games and the wish not to let teammates down, I really object to the introduction of subs,

in the fact that anyone can rent a sub and enter a tier 10 game with no experience and no knowledge of positioning or tactics, let alone communication. This is why we grind and learn.

 

So imagine my surprise when playing a tier 10 only battle and the 2 subs on our team are in division, and both have only played 137 games in WOWS, with only 3 tier 5 ships between them.

 

Wargaming has to limit the rental subs to your maximum line tier because this is ruining the game. I am lucky enough to be able to play during the week when the children are at school,                                                        but for those who have played for years and have limited time to play particularly at weekends, this will seem a pointless waste of time.

I enclose a screenshot that I think you will agree proves my point and I can only hope that Wargaming picks up on this, or at least makes the Arms Race permanently available so we can avoid 

subs or at least bad results.

 

[Prophecy82]

While I have to agree, that the rental system is stupid, dont worry, I think it will be soon over. 

When Subs get introduced as TT ships. 

 

My guess is, it will happen with the first patch in the new year, which is a usually a "major update" and brought us such great things like the Capt. reeeework. 

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 12 Minuten, punchmynuggets sagte:

I felt compelled to write about the unfairness of matchmaking and the introduction of submarines into tier 10 random battles.

Well, this has been done for a long time by now, and we all bear witness how deeply concerned WG are by those opinions.

Zitat

So imagine my surprise when playing a tier 10 only battle and the 2 subs on our team are in division, and both have only played 137 games in WOWS, with only 3 tier 5 ships between them.

137 games are a lot when you are allowed to buy yourself a high tier premium ship on the very same day you start playing the game. High tiers have been noob country ever since. 

 

[Floofz]

Am I the only one here that actualy want submarines in the game? :P

[Tanaka_15]

1 minute ago, Floofz said:

Am I the only one here that actualy want submarines in the game? :P

jup. And you really dont want them you just dont know it yet. 

[Floofz]

1 minute ago, Tanaka_15 said:

jup. And you really dont want them you just dont know it yet. 

 

Well let me elaborate on that. I think they need work and Im not a fan of homing torpedoes, atleast not seeing how much damage they do. But I think with work they could eventually be introduced properly.

A naval game needs submarines just as they need aircraft carriers in my oppinion, and I think the submarine concept is really cool.

 

I also understand how difficult it can be to make them work. If you have a separate game mode like we used to noone plays it, people just complain about how unbalanced it is without offering any kind of feedback. Unfortunately I think its gone a bit backwards, Im not a huge fan of the current energy system, I think subs should be able to stay submerged longer but there should be drawbacks to staying submerged etc etc.

[Captain_Breeze]

6 minutes ago, Floofz said:

Am I the only one here that actualy want submarines in the game? :P

Probably not, which is a shame. Ho hum.

[Tanaka_15]

Just now, Floofz said:

 

Well let me elaborate on that. I think they need work and Im not a fan of homing torpedoes, atleast not seeing how much damage they do. But I think with work they could eventually be introduced properly.

A naval game needs submarines just as they need aircraft carriers in my oppinion, and I think the submarine concept is really cool.

 

I also understand how difficult it can be to make them work. If you have a separate game mode like we used to noone plays it, people just complain about how unbalanced it is without offering any kind of feedback. Unfortunately I think its gone a bit backwards, Im not a huge fan of the current energy system, I think subs should be able to stay submerged longer but there should be drawbacks to staying submerged etc etc.

Look at CVs after rework and ask your self if wg is capable of fixing the CVs or Subs. If not, you dont want them in random mate:) And no concept is bad and boring like concept of CVs in this game is broken. Imho at this point wg is incapable of fixing each of this class cos they would change entire concept of them. 

[De_Zeeuwse_Admiraliteit]

10 minutes ago, Floofz said:

Am I the only one here that actualy want submarines in the game? :P

I want them too. It's just that sub haters make the loudest noise. ;)

[Floofz]

2 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Look at CVs after rework and ask your self if wg is capable of fixing the CVs or Subs. If not, you dont want them in random mate:) And no concept is bad and boring like concept of CVs in this game is broken. Imho at this point wg is incapable of fixing each of this class cos they would change entire concept of them. 

 

Buuut I think CVs are fine like they are......

I stopped taking this game seriously as a competitive challenge/game. I just play for the immersion, experience and collecting ships now. A WW2 based naval game without carriers would just feel odd and I was around when the RTS style CVs were a thing and that was frustrating and difficult and extremely brokenly OP if you were good. This type of CV is much better in my oppinion. Currently there are issues with spotting that has taken longer to fix than it should, but I heard there are plans for that so well see I guess.

[Nibenay78]

I still want my ballistic missles ingame. It should be incuded and it will be fun and engagin when I auto-win with a single mouse click.

[Tanaka_15]

3 minutes ago, Floofz said:

Buuut I think CVs are fine like they are.....

Ahh ok. 

 

So i want unisnakble bbs and inisible dds and tomahowk missels on Iowa class BBs. 

[Puffin_]

6 minutes ago, De_Zeeuwse_Admiraliteit said:

I want them too. It's just that sub haters make the loudest noise. ;)

Yes they do

[Floofz]

2 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Ahh ok. 

 

So i want unisnakble bbs and inisible dds and tomahowk missels on Iowa class BBs. 

 

I think the problem in reasoning is that everyone looks at this from a gaming perspective, Aka they want everything to be fair for everyone and that is why this will always be impossible to balance, because it wasnt fair in real life and war is never fair.

[Nibenay78]

5 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

Buuut I think CVs are fine like they are......

 

 I was around when the RTS style CVs were a thing and that was frustrating and difficult and extremely brokenly OP if you were good.

Strange how good players do even more well now and bad players suck just as much.

Aside from being immune from their own class, doesn't burn, doesn't flood and doesn't detonate. Even poor players dont lose enough planes to make it problematic for them until end game. 

 

5 minutes ago, Floofz said:

This type of CV is much better in my oppinion.

Why? in regards to the above..

5 minutes ago, Floofz said:

Currently there are issues with spotting that has taken longer to fix than it should, but I heard there are plans for that so well see I guess.

By far not the only issue.

[Nibenay78]

2 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

I think the problem in reasoning is that everyone looks at this from a gaming perspective, Aka they want everything to be fair for everyone and that is why this will always be impossible to balance, because it wasnt fair in real life and war is never fair.

Strange that since it's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Having a resemblance of balance is enjoyable for most.

I'm not sure war is fun. Didn't try it but it seems rather unfun.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 19 Minuten, Floofz sagte:

A naval game needs submarines just as they need aircraft carriers in my oppinion

A strategical game? Yes.

A tactical or arcade game? No.

[Floofz]

1 minute ago, Nibenay78 said:

Strange how good players do even more well now and bad players suck just as much.

Aside from being immune from their own class, doesn't burn, doesn't flood and doesn't detonate. Even poor players dont lose enough planes to make it problematic for them until end game

 

Being difficult to attack for the other CV I think is good, it decreases the chance of CV sniping which just ruins peoples gameplay.

I do think they should bring back the system where you cant launch planes when on fire, and I do think damagecon should be manual and I think you should be able to switch between launched planes and the ship while theyre still in the air without recalling them.

 

3 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Why? in regards to the above..

 

Because theyre much easier to play and doesnt require the same amount of responsibilit, or stress for that matter.

 

3 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

By far not the only issue.

 

No, but its the only major issue. Ive said it since they came out that I think CV spotting should be on the minimap only for the rest of the team, and it looks like well be getting that now.

[Nibenay78]

18 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

Being difficult to attack for the other CV I think is good, it decreases the chance of CV sniping which just ruins peoples gameplay.

Wasnt the argument that war is not fair? From my limited understanding is that getting the other's carrier was a top priority in ww2.

 

As for gameplay, its like saying that DDs should be immune to other DDs. Because when I play shimakaze and just want to run around torping BBS and CAs, some pesky gunboat DD shows up and kills me. Really ruins the fun.

 

Quote

I do think they should bring back the system where you cant launch planes when on fire, and I do think damagecon should be manual and I think you should be able to switch between launched planes and the ship while theyre still in the air without recalling them.

Yes, but WG is VERY clear this will not happen. We are too dumb to control two entities at the same time. Or rather an artificial limitation to make the game "easier" for newbies.

 

Quote

Because theyre much easier to play and doesnt require the same amount of responsibilit, or stress for that matter.

Bad players do just as bad. Good players win even more, meaning their influence and responsibility is actually higher.

I can agree that juggling 8 squads was not something everyone enjoyed, but then again none of the classes are equally "stressy". I have RL friends that generally avoids DD play due to it being rather intense in gunfights.

 

Quote

No, but its the only major issue. Ive said it since they came out that I think CV spotting should be on the minimap only for the rest of the team, and it looks like well be getting that now.

After 2 years of massive complaining.... you can see how likely things are to change.

 

 

But back to OPs complaints - it's insane how newbie players get to tier 10, but with rentals and how WG has accelerated the regular grind. 

[Maris_Piper]

All that is needed is an option Matchmaking including Submarines and Matchmaking Without, Problem Sorted  

 

 

[Tanaka_15]

24 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

I think the problem in reasoning is that everyone looks at this from a gaming perspective, Aka they want everything to be fair for everyone and that is why this will always be impossible to balance, because it wasnt fair in real life and war is never fair.

Ok. So lets make this like this, you play only FDR for 100 games, I play only Kremlin for 100 games. And see how much fun you will have in this. It is a game, we cant have I win class like cvs. 

[Wulf_Ace]

41 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

 

 

people just complain about how unbalanced it is without offering any kind of feedback. 

WHAT??? People gave tons of feedback, but WG doesnt listens to feedback and they never will!

Ask WoT gamers what they think about crew 2.0 ,still WG will introduce that to them

[Floofz]

3 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Wasnt the argument that war is not fair? From my limited understanding is that getting the other's carrier was a top priority in ww2.

 

As for gameplay, its like saying that DDs should be immune to other DDs. Because when I play shimakaze and just want to run around torping BBS and CAs, some pesky gunboat DD shows up and kills me. Really ruins the fun.

 

Fair to a certain degree. I mean a CV isnt immune to air attacks, youll just lose a lot of planes if you attempt it, so its generally not worth it at the start of the game. Besides in real life CVs WERE protected by their own fighters, unless they messed up like the japanese did at Midway.

Its not really the same with DDs. Ships like Shimakaze has better concealment than gunboat DDs and if youre good enough you can avoid them, and even spot them for your team. You cant really avoid an enemy CV thats dead set on trying to snipe you in another CV. Other ships can, by staying close to other ships or islands, if you do that in a CV youll get spotted and killed by other players.

 

3 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Yes, but WG is VERY clear this will not happen. We are too dumb to control two entities at the same time. Or rather an artificial limitation to make the game "easier" for newbies.

 

Yes and I am in no way defending WG. I just think CVs right now are better than they were with the RTS, and I dont want to see CVs go.

 

3 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Bad players do just as bad. Good players win even more, meaning their influence and responsibility is actually higher.

I can agree that juggling 8 squads was not something everyone enjoyed, but then again none of the classes are equally "stressy". I have RL friends that generally avoids DD play due to it being rather intense in gunfights.

 

I dont believe that to be true in all honesty. Considering the number of steamrolls or blowouts have increased quite drastically over the past year or two.

I strongly disagree about the stress level. For someone thats used to RTS games and play a lot of RTS CVs maybe the stresslevel would go down. But theres no denying that the RTS style CVs had a MASSIVE impact on the games outcome. You were more or less hopeless if you got a bad CV in your team and the enemy had a good CV. Its not really like that anymore.

 

3 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

After 2 years of massive complaining.... you can see how likely things are to change.

 

Didnt they recently say they were going to try this on the test sever?

 

3 hours ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Ok. So lets make this like this, you play only FDR for 100 games, I play only Kremlin for 100 games. And see how much fun you will have in this. It is a game, we cant have I win class like cvs

 

Sure, I hate Kremlin anyway. And CVs are not an "I win" class. People strongly exagarates CVs abilities. The biggest issue by far with CVs right now is spotting.

 

3 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

WHAT??? People gave tons of feedback, but WG doesnt listens to feedback and they never will!

Ask WoT gamers what they think about crew 2.0 ,still WG will introduce that to them

 

Yelling "we dont want CVs, or ban CVs" or the same with submarines isnt constructive criticism. WG clearly wants both CVs and Subs in the game, now we need to give them suggestions on how to make it work. This is an issue with streamers and CCs especially. People seem to think that because you have a certain oppinion everyone also has the same. Flamu is a good example of such a person.

[Shirakami_Kon]

3 hours ago, Floofz said:

 

Well let me elaborate on that. I think they need work and Im not a fan of homing torpedoes, atleast not seeing how much damage they do. But I think with work they could eventually be introduced properly.

A naval game needs submarines just as they need aircraft carriers in my oppinion, and I think the submarine concept is really cool.

 

I also understand how difficult it can be to make them work. If you have a separate game mode like we used to noone plays it, people just complain about how unbalanced it is without offering any kind of feedback.

So now we have them in the game where people just complain about how unbalanced they are offering all kinds of feedback. Just so devs can clean their [edited]with it. Progress.

[Floofz]

1 minute ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

So now we have them in the game where people just complain about how unbalanced they are offering all kinds of feedback. Just so devs can clean their [edited]with it. Progress

 

What kind of feedback has been ignored that has actualy been constructive thou? The issue was for a long time after for example the CV rework that everyone screemed REEE and wanted to nerf the CVs to the ground, the same thing is happening with subs now. You need to realise that the classes has to be actualy playable aswell, and playable by lets say, not very bright people.

From the little Ive played of submarines in coop right now they feel extremely complicated to play compared to other classes