the new german BBs' are they broken?

[Padds01]

in the tech tree they its listed 

 

""main battery

High firing accuracy"

 

maybe t9 it changes but its listed as a plus for the whole line , and well they are utterly aweful , they have to have the worst vertical dispersion of any gun in the game they miss by hundreds and hundreds of meters both long and short in the same salvo , left right they are fine but up/down... just aweful

 

are they working as intended?

[Floofz]

Dunno, I didnt get in with the whole pre release stuff and I just got the tier 3 Von der Tann. I doubt anyone cares about tier 3 but this one feels really broken at its tier. Its way too fast compared to all other BBs and its not as fragile as it should be considering the speed. The guns also seem more accurate than other tier 3 BBs, except for maybe the british tier 3. Well see what theyre like at higher tiers I guess.

[ColonelPete]

I am not a fan of the design, but their performance is ok. There are one or two ships were WG might tone them down.

[Ocsimano18]

Zieten has 1.7 sigma with 6 guns. She’s basically a slot machine, you can have 0 hits from 9km, and 2 citadels from 14km. You can use the aiming mod to reduce the dispersion, but then you lose on secondary range, while still remaining a slot machine. Rupprecht has 8 guns, same sigma, but much longer reload.

[doerhoff_damian]

The Guns are Ok but definitly not too strong.

The Secondaries of those high tiers can be nasty for sure.

I could see WG nerf the Concealment and make it  more difficult to get into Secondary Range

Lets hope the Stats become more balanced when more of the Average and Sub-average Players get their Hands on these Ships.

[Yedwy]

IIRC rule of the thumb is - the higher the shell velocity the higer vertical dispersion, as a counterbalance its easier to lead fast shells and they often have better pen…

[The_Angry_Admiral]

Please tell me this line gets better. I'm currently on the Derfflinger and the guns are absolutely troll. Sometimes when I shoot they actually have this swirling cone effect that would miss from the inside of a barn. 

[Flaky26]

Mackensen seems pretty good.

German battlecruisers have better dispersion than other BBs (similar to Repulse,  Thunderer...). But the Sigma of this line is problem.  1.7 is maximum, I think. And that is kind of meh. 

[Ocsimano18]

2 hours ago, doerhoff_damian said:

The Guns are Ok but definitly not too strong.

The Secondaries of those high tiers can be nasty for sure.

I could see WG nerf the Concealment and make it  more difficult to get into Secondary Range

Lets hope the Stats become more balanced when more of the Average and Sub-average Players get their Hands on these Ships.

A few things will surely happen:

1. People start to get accustomed to the new ships, learning that they have OP secondaries and long range torpedos.

2. People will use non full secondary commanders having no 21 pointers to spare.

3. Pommernization happens, where people learn to keep distance and burn down this close range fighters with HE.

[El2aZeR]

I think they're pretty funny.

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

Ignoring our CV expert :P

The T10 certainly is not be underestimated with. Especially divisioned with other T10 Scheffs or complimentary ships.  

[Sunleader]

6 hours ago, Padds01 said:

in the tech tree they its listed 

 

""main battery

High firing accuracy"

 

maybe t9 it changes but its listed as a plus for the whole line , and well they are utterly aweful , they have to have the worst vertical dispersion of any gun in the game they miss by hundreds and hundreds of meters both long and short in the same salvo , left right they are fine but up/down... just aweful

 

are they working as intended?

 

Not sure why anyone even still Reads what WG says about one of their Ships.

 

Effectively you should See WGs Reviews of their own Ships more as Wishful thinking on what Image WG would like Players to have of a Ship.

 

This can be sorted into a few different Categories.

 

 

1.

Blatant and Direct Lies.

This is when WG makes Obviously False Claims about a Ship being Good or even the Best at something or being Weak or the Worst at something.

When in actuality its Average or even outright the Opposite.

Most often this happens when a Ship is due to whatever Funny Idea in WGs Head is insanely Overpowered or entirely useless. And WG wants to deny these Claims by Praising or Bashing a Part of a Ship to Justify the other Part which is making it useless or overpowered.

For example when they tried to Justify Enterprise as being Balanced because it lacks a good Secondary Battery and because it AP Bombs are not very Accurate. Or when they tried to claim that Musashi has an very Inaccurate Main Battery despite it having a very Accurate Main Battery which has a Bad Sigma etc.

 

2.

Misleading Claims or Indirect Lies.

This is when WG makes claims about a Ships Attributes which are right but then Pair them with an Usage or Ability which is not Provided.

This usually happens when WG has Ships which are a little unbalanced or which WG wants to have a Specific Gimmick for and thus pretends the Ship to be something it is not.

A Good example for that is Smolensk having no Armor and thus being very Squishy. When in actual Game while Smolensk really has no Armor but thanks to that is extremely Tanky because most People just Overpen it.

Or German Battleships not needing a Buff to their Accuracy because they are very Tanky thanks to their Superior Armor and Turtleback when that Armor doesnt do anything against Fires and while Turtleback Protecting you from Citadels on Broadside also preventing Overpens thus more often causing massive Damage.

 

3.

Misjudgements due to having little Experience in their own Game.

This is when WG makes a Ship and actual Describes the Ships Attributes and Basic Usages correct. But has failed to Realize that these Attributes can be abused or changed in some way or due to Players behavior doesnt work etc.

This is for example how CVs ended up in such a Mess. As Good CV Players ended up completely abusing this new System to effectively become unstoppable annoyances that just keep harassing you to death.

Another example is the Italian Cruisers being able to just Delete Destroyers etc.

 

4.

Cases where WG somehow managed to be mostly right.

Frankly I think this is more of an Accident or an Unknown Factor not yet Discovered. At this Point I frankly cant believe that WG could even possibly get one of their Ship Reviews right. Their Views of the Game are just too skewed and too focused on providing an Image for the Low Skilled Potato rather than actually giving you an actual Insight in the Ships capabilities.

So if this happens it can only be an Accident or might be due to the Community not yet having Discovered how to abuse the Ships abilities.

Examples for this are however very scarce. Frankly the only case I can even think off without first going through the list and searching for it. Would be Slawa which WG correctly described as Sniping BB in the Realine which is very Squishy and which actually is like that and actually also tends to be played like that.

 

[lup3s]

So how would you spec your captain for these, assuming you want the Manual Secondaries skill ?

 

Fire Prevention + Concealment ?

Extra heal & dcp + Fire Prevention ?

[Camperdown]

I think they are OK but not special. I found Moltke disappointing because of her weak guns.

[Gebe_]

10 hours ago, Ocsimano18 said:

Zieten has 1.7 sigma with 6 guns. She’s basically a slot machine, you can have 0 hits from 9km, and 2 citadels from 14km. You can use the aiming mod to reduce the dispersion, but then you lose on secondary range, while still remaining a slot machine. Rupprecht has 8 guns, same sigma, but much longer reload.

Talking about sigma without mentioning dispersion is pointless. Just saying.

[Migantium_Mashum]

4 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Ignoring our CV expert :P

The T10 certainly is not be underestimated with. Especially divisioned with other T10 Scheffs or complimentary ships.  

I watched a stream recently, can't remember by whom, where I think 6 of them advanced in a line and with secondaries alone they totally wiped out the opposing force closest to them...

 

Interesting times if you get three of them in a division together.

[Redwing6891]

10 hours ago, Floofz said:

Dunno, I didnt get in with the whole pre release stuff and I just got the tier 3 Von der Tann. I doubt anyone cares about tier 3 but this one feels really broken at its tier. Its way too fast compared to all other BBs and its not as fragile as it should be considering the speed. The guns also seem more accurate than other tier 3 BBs, except for maybe the british tier 3. Well see what theyre like at higher tiers I guess.

I also got von der Tann in early access and I played her most. I found her quite enjoyable but then I like the ship in general, so maybe I am seeing things through rose tinted spectacles.

 

7 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

Please tell me this line gets better. I'm currently on the Derfflinger and the guns are absolutely troll. Sometimes when I shoot they actually have this swirling cone effect that would miss from the inside of a barn. 

I was looking forward to Derfflinger and I am equally underwhelmed. In comparison, the Koenig is slower but a much better ship.

 

2 hours ago, Camperdown said:

I think they are OK but not special. I found Moltke disappointing because of her weak guns.

I would agree with that, too. Although presented as an upgrade from von der Tann, I found her a step down and lost interest pretty quickly. Pretty ship but not that much fun. If I had to choose between her and vdT as a keeper, I'd always go for the latter rather than the former.

 

[Redwing6891]

7 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

I watched a stream recently, can't remember by whom, where I think 6 of them advanced in a line and with secondaries alone they totally wiped out the opposing force closest to them...

 

Interesting times if you get three of them in a division together.

That does sound like fun! LOL. A bit one sided though... ;)

[Ronchabale]

Wouldn´t call them op

Only played up to the tier 8 so I cant say anything about tier 9-10

If u build into secondaries the main guns are all over the place

[Redcap375]

The Tier 10 will get toned down, it's the new good toy. 

 

But not before enough people have it. Same old. 

[Faceoff]

15 hours ago, Padds01 said:

in the tech tree they its listed 

 

""main battery

High firing accuracy"

 

maybe t9 it changes but its listed as a plus for the whole line , and well they are utterly aweful , they have to have the worst vertical dispersion of any gun in the game they miss by hundreds and hundreds of meters both long and short in the same salvo , left right they are fine but up/down... just aweful

 

are they working as intended?

Get used to them, i hit citadels on BB and others they even said in chat "since when could those hit anything".

[KruppStahl14]

Even tho im not a fan of WW1 era and short after designs getting stretched out with lots of fantasy to something like this new line i say well done to WG for this addition.

Many say they re powercreep for the original german BBs and that the latter are obsolete now. But i disagree. The BC line is a fun alternative but never straight up better than the BBs. Both have diferent strengths and weaknesses. And dont forget, outside their secondary range the BCs are the weakest ships on BB slots.

Ive seen them yoloing into oblivion alot so far and they melt much faster than the BBs. However, i ve also seen a Ruppi in my team pushing together with others, racking up 7 kills and 3k base XP. Its all about timing your push right and that demands skill. Otherwise you ll get crushed. Thats good design.

Looking forward to a british BC line similar to Repulse :)

[totally_potato]

20 hours ago, Padds01 said:

in the tech tree they its listed 

 

""main battery

High firing accuracy"

 

maybe t9 it changes but its listed as a plus for the whole line , and well they are utterly aweful , they have to have the worst vertical dispersion of any gun in the game they miss by hundreds and hundreds of meters both long and short in the same salvo , left right they are fine but up/down... just aweful

 

are they working as intended?

I'm at T7 currently

 

I have heard opinions and seen my friend played the higher tier ones. They are not broken. The guns are quite accurate with BC disp, and most of them have quite the high base RoF. Low number of guns make it feel inaccurate plus the garbage - average sigma.

The secs are amazing but not broken coz there are counters to them

The concealment makes the secs even better and is a good compensation for low HP pool

The consumable setup is pretty nice

Speed is really nice

 

They have their weaknesses which is low HP pool, less heals, fore and aft end weaknesses, low number of guns. 

I have heard ppl highlighting the strengths so much that they call em OP, and then some are exaggerating the weaknesses to bs levels. 

So you def want to have a look at ppl who actually can show raw gameplay footage so YT channels, streams, etc

 

 

If you want more credible info sources, there are multiple vids on YT, and the WoWs wiki which is made by actual good players not WG themselves. 

 

 

[Sunleader]

13 hours ago, lup3s said:

So how would you spec your captain for these, assuming you want the Manual Secondaries skill ?

 

Fire Prevention + Concealment ?

Extra heal & dcp + Fire Prevention ?

 

That would be how I would Build it.

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSB210&modules=11111&upgrades=212134&commander=PCW001&skills=11051104&flags=4035&consumables=111&pos=0

[Redwing6891]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:30 AM, Flaky26 said:

Mackensen seems pretty good.

German battlecruisers have better dispersion than other BBs (similar to Repulse,  Thunderer...). But the Sigma of this line is problem.  1.7 is maximum, I think. And that is kind of meh. 

I ditched the meh Derfflinger and went for the Mackensen. I thought originally I wouldn't bother as I have the PEF but after a few games I am glad I did. I am quite enjoying her. She does play similar to the PEF but there is sufficient individuality there.

 

And she actually looks the ticket, particularly with the camo mod from Modstation to give her type 5 High Seas Fleet colours. Gorgeous!