Jean Bart - Overhyped ?

[KruppStahl14]

Hi fellow Captains.
As the title already tells Jean Bart will be the topic. And as we all know she returned for the Black Friday event.

After looking through some posts, vids etc i noticed how extremely hyped this ship is again. A hype some say comes from streamers who love her and did hilarious plays with her. Which this ship is totally capable of, with the combination of both speed and reload boost. However, these gimmicks are almost everything this ship has. And its weaknesses get completely overlooked in this hype train it seems.

Lets take a look at the real Jean Bart behind the curtains of this hype.

 

HP: 69.000, at the bottom pack of T9. 32% torp dmg reduction is nothing big but alright.

 

Armour: It has french turtleback which is trollish but its no save protection against cits at all. But worst it is entirely coated in 32mm and has a large superstructure. Super weak against HE spam and Yamatos !

 

Guns: 380mm is just bad at T9. Sure, they got great pen and long range. But they re also really inaccurate and you got only 8. Again, few upsides for many downsides. Her secondaries are only for memes.

 

AA: Really good. But if the CV wants to strike you he will do so. Especially the usual nose in or lonely flanking Jean Bart. Here T9 helps because less matches with CVs. But this bonus share all T9s of course (I love T9 for this <3).

 

Maneuverability: Its good. Base speed isnt special but with speed boost and flag it can zip around. Turning circle of 850m is good at T9. But the Rudder shift of 16 sec is mediocre. Here you got the choice between acc and rudder modules.

 

Concealment: Decent. Full build brings it down to 12.9 which it needs

All in all its a bad combination. Especially the weak armour, HP and the small unreliable guns make up for something most other T9 BBs just laugh at. But as mentioned before this ship has the gimmicks. And good players can get them to work pretty well. That requires the right timing and especially patience. Then this ship shines.

But we got to remember that many new and average players get caught in the hype around JB and believe its just a really strong ship. They open their wallets for a Battleship which melts like butter in the sun once it gets under fire. Then disappointment comes but their money is gone.

Imo the talk about this ship really needs to stop to just be: "Amazing ship. Look what /insertstreamername/ did with it. Get it !" Or: "I love it. Get it !"

Instead it also should get pointed out that it has alot severe weaknesses and that it fits only a certain playstyle not everyone likes/is capable of.

 

 

What are your thoughts ?

[Ocsimano18]

Jean-Bart is fun to play (I coined her as ‘Fun-Bart’), has a low skill floor, and you can have good games with her. No ship is without drawbacks, and no ship is universally good for everyone, but JB is in the top 5, in my opinion.

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

My thoughts:

 

1. Don't give WG money.

2. I laugh at JB that stay nose-in the whole game (and their AA does not save them when I play CV).

3. I do NOT laugh at JB that get played like big cruisers. Those things are deadly.

[totally_potato]

21 minutes ago, KruppStahl14 said:

Hi fellow Captains.
As the title already tells Jean Bart will be the topic. As we all know she returned for the Black Friday event.

After looking through some posts, vids etc i noticed how extremely hyped this ship is again. A hype some say comes from streamers who love her and did hilarious plays with her. Which this ship is totally capable of, with the combination of both speed and reload boost. However, these gimmicks are almost everything this ship has. And its weaknesses get completely overlooked in this hype train it seems.

Lets take a look at the real Jean Bart behind the curtains of this hype.

 

HP: 69.000, at the bottom pack of T9. 32% torp dmg reduction is nothing big but alright.

 

Armour: It has french turtleback which is trollish but its no save protection against cits at all. But worst it is entirely coated in 32mm and has a large superstructure. Super weak against HE spam and Yamatos !

 

Guns: 380mm is just bad at T9. Sure, they got great pen and long range. But they re also really inaccurate and you got only 8. Again, few upsides for many downsides. Her secondaries are only for memes.

 

AA: Really good. But if the CV wants to strike you he will do so. Especially the usual nose in or lonely flanking Jean Bart. Here T9 helps because less matches with CVs. But this bonus share all T9s of course (I love T9 for this <3).

 

Maneuverability: Its good. Base speed isnt special but with speed boost and flag it can zip around. Turning circle of 850m is good at T9. But the Rudder shift of 16 sec is mediocre. Here you got the choice between acc and rudder modules.

 

Concealment: Decent. Full build brings it down to 12.9 which it needs

All in all its a bad combination. Especially the weak armour, HP and the small unreliable guns make up for something most other T9 BBs just laugh at. But as mentioned before this ship has the gimmicks. And good players can get them to work pretty well. That requires the right timing and especially patience. Then this ship shines.

But we got to remember that many new and average players get caught in the hype around JB and believe its just a really strong ship. They open their wallets for a Battleship which melts like butter in the sun once it gets under fire. Then disappointment comes but their money is gone.

Imo the talk about this ship really needs to stop to just be: "Amazing ship. Look what /insertstreamername/ did with it. Get it !" Or: "I love it. Get it !"

Instead it also should get pointed out that it has alot severe weaknesses and that it fits only a certain playstyle not everyone likes/is capable of.

 

 

What are your thoughts ?

Jean Bart is a well hyped ship coz its

 

A. Unique

B. Fun

C. More than the sit-point-click gameplay that the average BB offers (like Vermont, or Yamato, or Repub for eg.)

[Nov_A]

Gud bote

[ollonborre]

I would say the hype is justified. Disregarding the gimmicks it is a fast BB with pretty comfortable gun layout, solid range and fast reload. The trollish turtleback means you don't get insta blapped (you can still get chunked heavily though) so it is somewhat forgiving. Also it's not super big which helps in its own right.

 

As long as you don't bowtank but stay mobile, it is a fun tier 9 BB with relatively low skill floor where the biggest downside is the durability and lack of meaningful overmatch.

 

Slapping gimmicks on top of it though we enter the almost unlimited potential zone, where the performance of the ship rises exponentially with player skill. And this is why so many players love it and like to hype it up, because the reload booster just holds so many options.

 

 

[illy]

JB is a great ship

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, Ocsimano18 said:

Jean-Bart is fun to play (I coined her as ‘Fun-Bart’), has a low skill floor, and you can have good games with her. No ship is without drawbacks, and no ship is universally good for everyone, but JB is in the top 5, in my opinion.

I would say she has a high skill floor. Without good positioning, she is an average to bad ship. She excels at outflanking the enemy, that is not something unskilled players are good at.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Best buy I ever made in WoWs (Fun, Unique, two very different playstyles available not just sit-click) - I dont otherwise play any BoringBoats.

 

Disadvantages are mostly theoretical when applied to 12v12 average joes in Randoms while the advantages impactful every game. 

Against intelligent opposition, the lack of overmatch can be felt. 

It's also a top3 pick of it's tier for brawling due to its advantages in turret traverse and reload booster. Only torp armed ships can can beat a wellplayed JB in a brawl.

[Miscommunication_dept]

She's a strong ship but too many people park bow on and wonder why they melt.

 

You need to use HE and AP, use your speed boost to duke shells and please angle.

 

Use that reload booster to primarily punish broadsides. You can use it to set fires after a ship repairs but you really want to be able to nail any ship that tries to turn away.

 

The citadel is well protected  and it's 32mm armour means many battleship shells don't arm. so when presenting flat broadside it doesn't usually get badly punished.

 

It has weaknesses but it's a formidable ship

[Panocek]

She's not bad, but IFHE/armor rework did not do her any favors and then Georgia exists.

[Gvozdika]

As per above posts. It is a ship that rewards making use of your mobility and the ability to use the reload booster at the right time. Ammo choice and picking your targets also makes a key difference as to whether you'll dish out serious damage.

 

On the other hand it has a glass jaw - so you WILL be shot up to bits if you push your luck too far. The turrets also break if you bow tank for too long vs. heavy opposition. Try not to get the attentions of the Yamato/Mushi/Shiki mafia - because your ship is covered everywhere in 32mm plating that they can insta-overmatch-full-ap-pen-ow-where-did-all-my-hp-go you. Yes that is the technical engineering term. 

 

Overhyped? Possibly. However any ship that isn't available all year round sort of gains a mythical status as 'removed = good'. Often this is true (Thunderer, Georgia, Musashi) however the Jean Bart is like the Missouri, Smolensk, Kronstadt, etc. Very good IF you know how to use them - less good if you don't. 

[Ocsimano18]

3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I would say she has a high skill floor. Without good positioning, she is an average to bad ship. She excels at outflanking the enemy, that is not something unskilled players are good at.

That's the skill ceiling. The skill floor is that unskilled players do not get dev strikes and can score hits.

[Ronchabale]

Dunno but if I had one of them Dutch airstrike cruisers the bow tanking JB would be a nice target

[Harvin87]

For me it's an elite ship. The speed plus the MBRB makes it awesome. The other day I obliterated an almost full hp Shikishima with 3 salvoes, courtesy of the MBRB of course 

[PyroA]

Got almost 300 battles in JB and I'm not 100% sure but I think WG change the sigma on JB or something? Dispersion is just horrible lately.

 

Has Anyone else noticed this that had JB a while. Would like to hear your opinions. 

[tocqueville8]

This is when I got her:

 

 

She's still my dmg record holder at T9, both in Randoms (292k) and in Ranked (an old Sprint, 283k), and both results are well over a year old.

 

 

A month ago, she also became the only ship I ever got 9 kills with:

 

 

TL; DR: Definitely NOT overhyped.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Ocsimano18 said:

That's the skill ceiling. The skill floor is that unskilled players do not get dev strikes and can score hits.

High Skill floor is that unskilled players get worse results in her than other ships. That is the case. She does not work well bow on.

You need to have a certain understanding of the game to make her work.

[tocqueville8]

7 hours ago, KruppStahl14 said:

Sure, they got great pen and long range. But they re also really inaccurate and you got only 8. Again, few upsides for many downsides.

1) They're not inaccurate: French dispersion is on par with Italian, British, German and American, and her sigma is a perfectly decent 1.9

 

2) 8 guns at the front means no need to show even the tiniest hint of broadside to enemy AP, let alone torpedoes. Smaller targets are also less inviting: the enemy might simply prioritize someone else for a good while. It's a great survivability bonus.

 

3) It also means you can go straight towards your target instead of having to sail diagonally to use all your guns, which slows you down: the path would be longer, and if you wiggle you bleed speed. Thus, that turret arrangement is also an efficiency bonus.

[Communist_Loli]

2 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

1) They're not inaccurate: French dispersion is on par with Italian, British, German and American, and her sigma is a perfectly decent 1.9

 

2) 8 guns at the front means no need to show even the tiniest hint of broadside to enemy AP, let alone torpedoes. It's a great survivability bonus.

 

3) It also means you can go straight towards your target instead of having to sail diagonally to use all your guns, which slows you down (the path is going to be longer, and if you wiggle you bleed speed). Thus, it's also an efficiency bonus.

French dispersion is NOT on par with British, German, or American. It's actually tied with the Italians for being the worst in the game. 

[MixuS]

No one seems to have mentioned that JB guns have great reload even without reload booster.

[tocqueville8]

51 minutes ago, Communist_Loli said:

French dispersion is NOT on par with British, German, or American. It's actually tied with the Italians for being the worst in the game. 

 

FdG with dispersion upgrade, range upgrade, fire range module:

 

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSB109&amp;modules=1121&amp;upgrades=004002&amp;commander=PCW001&amp;consumables=1111&amp;pos=0

 

Jean Bart with dispersion upgrade:

 

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PFSB518&amp;modules=1111&amp;upgrades=004000&amp;commander=PCW001&amp;consumables=1111&amp;pos=0

 

 

Horizontal dispersion, from the Wiki:

 

 

It's exactly the same for French and Italians, and basically the same (less than 2 m difference at 24 km) for British, American and German.

[Trench4nt]

Vor 9 Stunden, KruppStahl14 sagte:

What are your thoughts ?

 

1. JB ist a very good ship, particularly its guns.

2. If you think about getting your first brand new premium T9 BB allrounder, it is the best choice.

3. If you have Bourgogne, you won't need it because Bourgogne does everything better. So it is only useful in Ranked or Brawl.

 

I bought it anyway. 

[diegobrando_2019]

I do think since new ships have been released she is not that strong as 2 years ago. But she is still a good ship. I have my dmg record in her, and reload booster on a bb is one of the strongest tools you can have. However the lack of overamtch is an issue nowadays, and your survivability is not that great. I would say a ship like Georgia is more valuable. But JB is still great.

[GulvkluderGuld]

39 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

3. If you have Bourgogne, you won't need it because Bourgogne does everything better. So it is only useful in Ranked or Brawl.

 

Except hit what you shoot. Bourg has worse dispersion.