Angling in Cruiser.... does it even matter?

[Prophecy82]

In this post

 

it was stated, that one of the main features of the IFHE-rework was to:

Increase cruisers' survivability: changes to plating thickness will make cruisers more resistant to battleship salvos if the positioning is correct;

 

What does this actually mean? What is the correct positioning? 

 

As it is right now:

If you are in T7 CA/CL or lower (partially still true for T8) its better to show flat broadside to a BB shooting you and hope for citadel-overpens  instead of angling so the shells arm and due to overmatch chunk your ship. 

 

If you are T8+ angling might work but since everybody gets 45xmm shells its pointless anyways. 

 

So, WG, pls explain how do you position correctly vs. 45x mm shells if you are not one of the 3 Russian big boys? 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

In B4 obligatory WG reply 'Angling works against everything. For example there are circumstances with certain ships under specific conditions where angling works. I myself for instance bounced off HE bombs when angling against a carrier attack in a DD. Not every ship is effective at angling though.'

[Yedwy]

Napoli and the T9/10 Ruskie SC/LC can profit from angling, prob few others to a degree, for the rest it doesn’t really matter anymore, Everybody and their mother is overmatching everywhere they hit anyways…

[bobtherterrible]

13 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

Increase cruisers' survivability: changes to plating thickness will make cruisers more resistant to battleship salvos if the positioning is correct;

 

 

I think you're confusing positioning with angling.

 

Correct positioning is a position where you can shoot at the enemy and is either:

1) Behind some granite armour

2) Where the enemy can't see you 

or failing either of those

3) Where the enemy isn't aiming

 

Do please keep showing flat broadside to me if that's what you think is going to work. My aim is not the best and it makes life considerably easier for me.

[Prophecy82]

1 minute ago, Europizza said:

In B4 obligatory 'Angling works against everything. For example there are circumstances with certain ships under specific conditions where angling works. Not every ship is effective at angling though.'

 

Indeed. I bounced an AP-Salvo from Petro in my Ragnar. 

Guess that was one in a lifetime shot for that Petro.... and I had trouble not falling from my chair laughing. 

[Spezieh]

I think the whole concept of overmatch is dumb. You will penetrate because your shell is huge even if the angle is 1°?? Somebody in past wrote that in WoT overmatch is just better Pen-Angles. I guess that would be much better as every T10 BB hats a caliber over 450mm. Even the germans are going to get one with preussen.

 

[Prophecy82]

1 minute ago, bobtherterrible said:

 

Do please keep showing flat broadside to me if that's what you think is going to work. My aim is not the best and it makes life considerably easier for me.

 

Easy test: shoot at a broadside Mainz and enjoy free overpens at 7km or less. Works with D7P, too. 

If you really want smth infuriating: Shoot a broadside Leander in Champagne at 10km or less. 

[ColonelPete]

Angling works. Anyone who disagrees can show broadside.

[bobtherterrible]

1 minute ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

Easy test: shoot at a broadside Mainz and enjoy free overpens at 7km or less. Works with D7P, too. 

If you really want smth infuriating: Shoot a broadside Leander in Champagne at 10km or less. 

yeah but 4 overpens is still better than 7 misses and a ricochet

[Prophecy82]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Angling works. Anyone who disagrees can show broadside.

Eendracht (f.e.) didnt get the memo...

 

3 minutes ago, bobtherterrible said:

yeah but 4 overpens is still better than 7 misses and a ricochet

Bcs at that ranges you get misses? 

[bobtherterrible]

Just now, Prophecy82 said:

Bcs at that ranges you get misses? 

well i have been playing Freddie the grocer quite a bit lately so anything is possible

[Prophecy82]

1 minute ago, bobtherterrible said:

well i have been playing Freddie the grocer quite a bit lately so anything is possible

Ah, that explains.... 

[ColonelPete]

5 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

Eendracht (f.e.) didnt get the memo...

 

Bcs at that ranges you get misses? 

You can get lucky, but usually you do not.

If you think you can get better results this way, do it. Please tell us when you sail around in your broadside cruisers, that we can queue in with our BB.

[Prophecy82]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You can get lucky, but usually you do not.

If you think you can get better results this way, do it. Please tell us when you sail around in your broadside cruisers, that we can queue in with our BB.

You should know that Im not a random Noob. 

 

That said, ofc I angle at longer distances but the only thing it does is, to reduce the ammount of shells that will actually hit the ship. 

In cases of such CLs and close distances I will show flat broadside since I actually DO have better results in midgitating dmg. So pls have a laugh and queue up. 

I mean you can sail broadside to a Moskva in a Smolensk at sub 10km at laugh at him as he desperatly tries to not overpen your citadel.  

[ColonelPete]

42 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

You should know that Im not a random Noob. 

 

That said, ofc I angle at longer distances but the only thing it does is, to reduce the ammount of shells that will actually hit the ship. 

In cases of such CLs and close distances I will show flat broadside since I actually DO have better results in midgitating dmg. So pls have a laugh and queue up. 

I mean you can sail broadside to a Moskva in a Smolensk at sub 10km at laugh at him as he desperatly tries to not overpen your citadel.  

Or get citadelled. And if there is a Hindenburg next to the Moskwa, you might grant him a Dev Strike...

[BlackYeti]

I haven't played cruisers in randoms for quite a while, but have found that juking salvoes with acceleration/ deceleration is way more efficient than any amount of angling. That said not angling at all only works for certain cruisers in certain situations and if your citadel armor is 100mm+ you should pretty much always angle.

[Aragathor]

Of course angling matters, it's the difference between being sent to port in one salvo and two.

[fumtu]

Well correct positioning of cruisers now means that you should position your cruiser in such way that it is safe in your port while you are playing something else.

[Tanaka_15]

2 hours ago, bobtherterrible said:

1) Behind some granite armour

2) Where the enemy can't see you 

or failing either of those

3) Where the enemy isn't aiming

 

and most imporant:

4) make sure your cruser is postioned in port. Use DD or BB instead. Fixed:)

[bobtherterrible]

39 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

and most imporant:

4) make sure your cruser is postioned in port. Use DD or BB instead. Fixed:)

Well I used to think that having had all sorts of horrors grinding up to Minotaur, but lately have had quite a bit of success (relatively) with Surrey, Albermarle and Schorrs of all things using the strategy given. None of these have any apparent benefit to angling. Even the mighty Celebes (so OP that it doesn't get any ASW weaponry at all) has kinda worked.

The main thing is: don't get hit.

[Tanaka_15]

1 minute ago, bobtherterrible said:

Well I used to think that having had all sorts of horrors grinding up to Minotaur, but lately have had quite a bit of success (relatively) with Surrey, Albermarle and Schorrs of all things using the strategy given. None of these have any apparent benefit to angling. Even the mighty Celebes (so OP that it doesn't get any ASW weaponry at all) has kinda worked.

The main thing is: don't get hit.

i still like playing cruses but just be honest, if you play to win, just use diffrent class crusers in general are just wrose in all aspects of game than dds and bbs. So if you want to win choose a dd or a bb you will get easier game and better experience. 

[Padds01]

it works , unless its one of the cases when it doesnt. problem is you need a completely encyclopedic knowledge of your armour and thier guns , i really think there should be either a base gui element or a cheap commander skill that lets you know if that big ship aiming at you is equipped with overmatching guns or not.

 

and there are a lot of cases where its really non intuitive , the t7nelson a BB has really weak bow armour and is frequently overpenned when low tier and thats a battleship. and anyone whose shot at a smolensk will have stories of infuriating overpens on a flat broadside but if you swap to HE and have big enough guns you can citadel it with HE, do i know the caliber breakpoint for that? no no clue at all i just angle and hope.

 

it really wouldnt hurt to make it a bit clearer and more uniform or at least give us ingame information

[bobtherterrible]

Just now, Tanaka_15 said:

i still like playing cruses but just be honest, if you play to win, just use diffrent class crusers in general are just wrose in all aspects of game than dds and bbs. So if you want to win choose a dd or a bb you will get easier game and better experience. 

It's true that having a big impact on the result is a lot harder in these types of cruiser than the other classes as they lack the knock out punch and/or are difficult to get into a position where they can deliver a knock out punch without getting destroyed.

[SkollUlfr]

its been years since angling and positioning meant more that proximity to an island for 95% of cl/a

even a dd can get bounce ribbons, it doesnt mean angling actually works.

 

this is just another hamfisted copout to the fact there hasnt been development on game mechanics for a decade.

"oh hey, lets change an exp gated power perk, in a scenario that is a mess of a whole lot of interdependent problems".

 

this solves nothing. you need to add fusing angles to your he or some other ACTUAL MECHANICS FEATURE to start fixing this mess of over burdened foundations.

[Yedwy]

25 minutes ago, SkollUlfr said:

its been years since angling and positioning meant more that proximity to an island for 95% of cl/a

even a dd can get bounce ribbons, it doesnt mean angling actually works.

 

this is just another hamfisted copout to the fact there hasnt been development on game mechanics for a decade.

"oh hey, lets change an exp gated power perk, in a scenario that is a mess of a whole lot of interdependent problems".

 

this solves nothing. you need to add fusing angles to your he or some other ACTUAL MECHANICS FEATURE to start fixing this mess of over burdened foundations.

No HE doesn’t need fusing angles, also its not logical as the contact fuze will activate with even Light touch let alone an impact if one would want to make strides towards more realistic ways of ship class interactions it would neccesitate as a step one to cap the BBs to one or two per side and WG wont do that for myriad if reasons