Curb dd's

[DreadArchangel]

Ppl mention a lot about cv's and subs, but one of the biggest problems is the number of dd's, you can have in a game, speccilly in coop  where the teams are smaller, haveing 4 dd's tends to end the game real fast, a cap like you have with cv's, subs should be in place.

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

37 minuti fa, DreadArchangel ha scritto:

Ppl mention a lot about cv's and subs, but one of the biggest problems is the number of dd's, you can have in a game, speccilly in coop  where the teams are smaller, haveing 4 dd's tends to end the game real fast, a cap like you have with cv's, subs should be in place.

I agree, 4 DDs per team is now the norm... and it is too much. Now it's not so uncommon to have 4 DDs, 2 subs and 1 CV per team... it sure is a problem that needs to be adressed 

[Camperdown]

Hahah, funny.

So DDs are shat on by every enemy ship. So then when there are 4 each side it is a problem 

In coop OK, I see your point, but in randoms?

[arttuperkunas]

4 dds is good, lessens the likelihood that your yolo rushing fletcher will ruin the game on his own

[anonym_FDOLXpxOfXXq]

39 minutes ago, AxisMarine said:

I agree, 4 DDs per team is now the norm... and it is too much. Now it's not so uncommon to have 4 DDs, 2 subs and 1 CV per team... it sure is a problem that needs to be adressed 

Leaving aside the crap from above and below, way too many BBs -> less cruisers -> more DDs. 

You brought this on yourselves.

[ColonelPete]

51 minutes ago, AxisMarine said:

I agree, 4 DDs per team is now the norm... and it is too much. Now it's not so uncommon to have 4 DDs, 2 subs and 1 CV per team... it sure is a problem that needs to be adressed 

4 DD in a 12 ship team would mean 1/3 of the team,  around 33.33% of the ships would be DD.

 

Reality shows this:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20211106/eu_week/average_class_u.html

Spoiler

vertical line marks patch 0.10.9: Subs in Random, which you would have to substract from the shown numbers.

 

[Dutchy_2019]

I think in some ways this is a direct response to the increase of BBs, further accelerated with the introduction of submarines: Cruisers are even easier to victimize by BBs because of Submarine spotting, homing ping mechanics, and useless AA, which saw people move to BB, which caused even more people to abandon CA, and move to either DD or BB (or to abandon the game).

[Aethervoxx]

1 hour ago, AmiralPotato said:

You brought this on yourselves.

It is Wedgie who brought this on us. Haven't you got it yet -> Wedgie loves giving atomic wedgies to all their players (except, ofc, for the Wallet Whale Warrior crowd).

 

 

[Aethervoxx]

2 hours ago, DreadArchangel said:

biggest problems is the number of dd's, you can have in a game, speccilly in coop 

* Note 1 (to self): play more DD in Co-op.

** Note 2: I don't play kindergarten mode, err, Co-op.

PS: Who would whine about this? BBabies? Reworked CV scum? SSs?

PPS: I doubt it would be Cruisers since, as far as I would think, Cruisers would want more DD food 

[General_Alexus]

2 hours ago, AxisMarine said:

I agree, 4 DDs per team is now the norm... and it is too much. Now it's not so uncommon to have 4 DDs, 2 subs and 1 CV per team... it sure is a problem that needs to be adressed 

Its funny how people think 5BBs per team is totally fine, but 4 DDs is not fine. If you expect there to be 5 BBs, why wouldnt you take a DD, and why would you hardcap DD numbers to avoid the rational response of players to not play the Exp-piniata for BBottomfeeding Degenerates?

[Procrastes]

I heard an interesting observation in a Youtube video a while ago, namely that the change that made rocket attacks easier to dodge made destroyers more popular, and thus the number of destroyers increased overnight, which in turn made battleships less popular (for obvious reasons) and cruisers more popular (because less insta-blapping BB:s and more DD:s for food).

 

The end effect was that the overall game experience for everyone - except maybe hardline BB players - was much improved, at least in the meaning that the three main surface ship classes (sorry, CV players, but it's true) became more evenly represented which in turn made the gameplay more dynamic.*

 

The fun part is this: Wargaming didn't actually intend to improve the gameplay quality for the general player population. They merely wanted to ensure that their new coddled class - submarines - would be able to "just dodge" rocket attacks. The fact that DD:s are now able to "just dodge" as well - something they were supposed to be able to do from the beginning - came as an unintended bonus...!

 

(Please note that all of this is just speculation! But it fits together rather well, doesn't it...?)

 

* And then they promptly ruined the dynamic again when they introduced submarines, of course. But that's the topic of another thread.

[lovelacebeer]

I assume this particular thread might be linked to the OPs comment in the Russian CV thread, where he stated that Shimakaze was OP.

[Bear__Necessities]

12 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I heard an interesting observation in a Youtube video a while ago, that the change that made rocket attacks easier to dodge made destroyers more popular, and thus the number of destroyer increased overnight, which in turn made battleships less popular (for obvious reasons) and cruisers more popular (because less insta-blapping BB:s and more DD:s for food).

 

The fun part is this: Wargaming didn't actually intend to improve the gameplay quality for the general player population. They merely wanted to ensure that their new coddled class - submarines - would be able to "just dodge" rocket attacks. The fact that DD:s are now able to "just dodge" as well - something they were supposed to be able to to from the beginning - came as an unintended bonus!

 

(Please note that all of this is just speculation! But it fits together rather well, doesn't it...?)

It's also now crystal clear why they got rid of friendly fire damage....

[ColonelPete]

11 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I heard an interesting observation in a Youtube video a while ago, that the change that made rocket attacks easier to dodge made destroyers more popular, and thus the number of destroyer increased overnight, which in turn made battleships less popular (for obvious reasons) and cruisers more popular (because less insta-blapping BB:s and more DD:s for food).

You can see the numbers above. DD numbers are lower than a few weeks ago...

[Procrastes]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You can see the numbers above. DD numbers are lower than a few weeks ago...

This does not surprise me. Pursuing your normal DD duties with extra submarines on top, is no sinecure.

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

This does not surprise me. Pursuing your normal DD duties with extra submarines on top, is no sinecure.

I marked the time Subs were added....

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

2 ore fa, arttuperkunas ha scritto:

4 dds is good, lessens the likelihood that your yolo rushing fletcher will ruin the game on his own

That is true, gives the team a bit more chances. I'm not against DDs per se (in coop they are more problematic though), it is just the combination between CVs, DDs and subs that is going out of hand right now, I had a few game where more than half the ships were from these 3 classes, thus not visibile most of the time... the map feels empty as a BB player and as a cruiser player (although I play mostly supercruisers). Add to this cruisers that are suffering a loss of utility and role and you get pretty unbalanced line ups quite often.

But you're right, if I have to choose between a 4 DD game or a 1 DD game, I'd pick up the 4 DD game.

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

2 ore fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

4 DD in a 12 ship team would mean 1/3 of the team,  around 33.33% of the ships would be DD.

 

Reality shows this:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20211106/eu_week/average_class_u.html

  Rivela contenuti nascosti

vertical line marks patch 0.10.9: Subs in Random, which you would have to substract from the shown numbers.

 

well it shows that we had a slight increase in the last 6 months with a pike of nearly 30% in june, and now stabilized around 25% (so 3 per team).

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

1 ora fa, Procrastes ha scritto:

I heard an interesting observation in a Youtube video a while ago, that the change that made rocket attacks easier to dodge made destroyers more popular, and thus the number of destroyer increased overnight, which in turn made battleships less popular (for obvious reasons) and cruisers more popular (because less insta-blapping BB:s and more DD:s for food).

 

The fun part is this: Wargaming didn't actually intend to improve the gameplay quality for the general player population. They merely wanted to ensure that their new coddled class - submarines - would be able to "just dodge" rocket attacks. The fact that DD:s are now able to "just dodge" as well - something they were supposed to be able to to from the beginning - came as an unintended bonus!

 

(Please note that all of this is just speculation! But it fits together rather well, doesn't it...?)

When did we get the rocket change ? if it is June, then Pete's graph shows and proves what you're saying perfectly 

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, AxisMarine said:

well it shows that we had a slight increase in the last 6 months with a pike of nearly 30% in june, and now stabilized around 25% (so 3 per team).

3 is not 4...

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

1 minuto fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

3 is not 4...

Well mate, I got more 4 DDs games than 3 DDs games in this last period. Of course I'm not representative of all the server datas; the fact that in aggregate numbers we have a 25% of DDs per match doesn't mean that I can't have an average of 4 DDs per game in a given time frame. And you can clearly see that after june 2021 the average is slightly higher than it was in the July 2020-March 2021 time frame.

[ColonelPete]

11 minutes ago, AxisMarine said:

Well mate, I got more 4 DDs games than 3 DDs games in this last period. Of course I'm not representative of all the server datas; the fact that in aggregate numbers we have a 25% of DDs per match doesn't mean that I can't have an average of 4 DDs per game in a given time frame. And you can clearly see that after june 2021 the average is slightly higher than it was in the July 2020-March 2021 time frame.

It is possible, but highly unlikely.

Remember, you have to subtract Subs from that number. The average for DD is therefore even lower.

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

3 minuti fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

It is possible, but highly unlikely.

Remember, you have to subtract Subs from that number. The average for DD is therefore even lower.

True we don't have subs in this graph... when do you think they will add them ? 

I will try to play cruisers more often... poor class. Make cruisers great again ! 

[BanzaiPiluso]

3 dds per battle, agree. 4

[guy_incognito79]

In co-op with the smaller team size, yeah that's a fair point.. 4 DD's makes the round end way too fast. In randoms on the other hand... nah, as others have said the more DD's there the more chance at least one of them has a functioning brain.